[LSJ] Life Boon & Withdrawal

The setup: In the endgame of a 5-player table, we're down to A preying on B preying on C. Not that it really matters for the Life Boon question, but C has 2 VP so far. B has played a Life Boon against A, and it's still in play. B ousts C. A & B mutually withdraw. Does the Boon steal A's withdrawal VP? I.e., does the game wind up (1) 3 VP B, 2 VP C or (2) 2 VP B, 2 VP C, 1 VP A Because of an existing ruling on stealing a simultaneously-earned VP, I think (1), but neither I nor my Senior Executive VP of Rulemongering could find confirmation. :) Thanks in advance, Pat

[ quoted text not captured ] Looking at the previous rulings, i think you're right. The only instance where you don't get a VP is when you're ousted first. Although you could argue that there is no "mutual withdrawal"...rather one meth allows the other to withdraw without interfering. If B is the one withdrawing, you could argue then(don't know if i'm right there) that B leaves the game first, all his cards are burned and the LB not in play anymore when A gets his VP, so it isn't stolen.

I think if A withdraws, then B gets A's VP, and the score is B 3VPs, C 2 VPs. I'm not sure about this, though. If B withdraws, then the Life Boon is out of play and the game is over when A earns his VP, so it's not possible for the Life Boon to steal it. Thus, the score would be B 2VPs, C 2VPs, A 1VP. I feel confident in this ruling due to a similar case with withdrawls and Brinksmanship. Ira

Pat wrote: > The setup: > > In the endgame of a 5-player table, we're down to A preying on B preying on > C. > > Not that it really matters for the Life Boon question, but C has 2 VP so > far. > > B has played a Life Boon against A, and it's still in play. > > B ousts C. > > A & B mutually withdraw. Does the Boon steal A's withdrawal VP? No. The Life Boon won't steal "as B is leaves play". > I.e., does the game wind up > > (1) 3 VP B, 2 VP C > > or > > (2) 2 VP B, 2 VP C, 1 VP A (2) > Because of an existing ruling on stealing a simultaneously-earned VP, I > think (1), but neither I nor my Senior Executive VP of Rulemongering could > find confirmation. :) If B has a Life Boon on A and A ousts B, B doesn't get the VP (since it comes "as B leaves play"). Similarly with other cases where B is leaving play simultaneously with VP awards. -- LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply) Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ wrote: > Pat wrote: > > The setup: > > > > In the endgame of a 5-player table, we're down to A preying on B preying on > > C. > > > > Not that it really matters for the Life Boon question, but C has 2 VP so > > far. > > > > B has played a Life Boon against A, and it's still in play. > > > > B ousts C. > > > > A & B mutually withdraw. Does the Boon steal A's withdrawal VP? > > No. The Life Boon won't steal "as B is leaves play". > > > I.e., does the game wind up > > > > (1) 3 VP B, 2 VP C > > > > or > > > > (2) 2 VP B, 2 VP C, 1 VP A > > (2) > > > Because of an existing ruling on stealing a simultaneously-earned VP, I > > think (1), but neither I nor my Senior Executive VP of Rulemongering could > > find confirmation. :) > > If B has a Life Boon on A and A ousts B, B doesn't get the VP (since > it comes "as B leaves play"). Similarly with other cases where B is > leaving play simultaneously with VP awards. Huh, I knew that about B being ousted, but thought that for other "the game is now over simultaneous with when the Life Boon would get this VP" situations (ie ones where the Life Boon-playing Methuselah has not been ousted), the Life Boon would still be able to grab a VP. My line of thought derived from the ruling that a Life Boon will get the 0.5 VP from a Booned Methuselah who has survived to time being called in a VEKN tournament. (http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/c5060eba4e347f81) It seems to me that that situation is pretty similar to a withdrawal ending the game before time is called - in either case, the game is over when the VP is awarded, which means the Life Boon card would normally be out of play. Josh just stopping by

jtdu...@yahoo.com wrote: > LSJ wrote: >>Pat wrote: >>>B has played a Life Boon against A, and it's still in play. >>>A & B mutually withdraw. Does the Boon steal A's withdrawal VP? >> >>No. The Life Boon won't steal "as B is leaves play". >> >>If B has a Life Boon on A and A ousts B, B doesn't get the VP (since >>it comes "as B leaves play"). Similarly with other cases where B is >>leaving play simultaneously with VP awards. > > Huh, I knew that about B being ousted, but thought that for other "the > game is now over simultaneous with when the Life Boon would get this > VP" situations (ie ones where the Life Boon-playing Methuselah has not > been ousted), the Life Boon would still be able to grab a VP. No. The Life Boon has to be in play. If B withdraws, the Life Boon leaves play in exactly the same way it would if he were ousted. > My line of thought derived from the ruling that a Life Boon will get > the 0.5 VP from a Booned Methuselah who has survived to time being > called in a VEKN tournament. When time is called, the Methuselah has not been ousted and has not withdrawn. Ousted and withdrawn Methuselahs do not get 0.5 VPs for still being in the game when time is called. If he's getting 0.5 VP, he must still be in the game, and so his Life Boon is still in the game, and so it will collect the target's 0.5 VP as well. > (http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/c5060eba4e347f81) > It seems to me that that situation is pretty similar to a withdrawal > ending the game before time is called - in either case, the game is > over when the VP is awarded, which means the Life Boon card would > normally be out of play. Not similar. In one case, you are "still in the game" (a prerequisite for getting 0.5 VPs). In the other, you are not. Consider High Museum of Art, Atlanta. Officially, if you have 2 pool (and HMoA,A) when time is called, you get 0.5 VP for still being in the game. Your way, you would lose the HMoA,A, which would oust you before you could get 0.5 VP. [ quoted text not captured ]

> No. The Life Boon has to be in play. If B withdraws, the > Life Boon leaves play in exactly the same way it would if > he were ousted. What if A withdraws, instead of B? Ira

[ quoted text not captured ] ? B gets A's point for withdrawing, by card text. [ quoted text not captured ]

"LSJ" <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote in message news:yHove.13153$eM6....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net... [ quoted text not captured ] This all makes sense now... I was erroneously thinking that "mutual withdrawal" would be the same thing as "simultaneous withdrawal," which, of course, it's not. Even if A & B agree to withdraw, one of them has to succeed at the withdrawal first, and that order of withdrawal determines whether the Life Boon kicks in or not. Thanks for the assistance, all. :) - Pat