LSJ: Burn option question

hi Scott, Can you use the burn option if you don't control a *ready* vampire of the appropriate characteristic, or only if you don't control such a vampire at all? In a previous newsgroup post, you seem to have agreed to the former (ie that if your only Daughter of Cacophony is in torpor, you could burn-option a Paris Opera House from hand): www.google.com/groups?selm=3FBB92BB.9060208%40white-wolf.com But since this topic wasn't the thrust of the question, I'm not sure if you intended to agree to that. The rulebook (BH 1.6.1.3) seems a little ambiguous: "Some cards that have a requirement also have a burn option icon. This icon means that a Methuselah who doesn't control a minion that meets the requirements may discard the card during any Methuselah's untap phase." For master cards, the minion in a sense doesn't meet the requirements while in torpor, but on the other hand, in a sense he *does* meet the requirements of the *card*, he just doesn't grant the Methuselah the ability to play the card while in torpor. thanks, Josh no new options to burn

Joshua Duffin wrote: > hi Scott, > > Can you use the burn option if you don't control a *ready* vampire of > the appropriate characteristic, or only if you don't control such a > vampire at all? Depends on what the card requires. If is requires a ready, then the absence of a ready is sufficient. If it requires a controlled (ready or torpor), then one in torpor will prevent the burn option. http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec1_6_1 > In a previous newsgroup post, you seem to have agreed to the former (ie > that if your only Daughter of Cacophony is in torpor, you could > burn-option a Paris Opera House from hand): > > www.google.com/groups?selm=3FBB92BB.9060208%40white-wolf.com > > But since this topic wasn't the thrust of the question, I'm not sure if > you intended to agree to that. The rulebook (BH 1.6.1.3) seems a little > ambiguous: "Some cards that have a requirement also have a burn option > icon. This icon means that a Methuselah who doesn't control a minion > that meets the requirements may discard the card during any Methuselah's > untap phase." ? If the card requires a ready member of a certain clan to play, then one in torpor doesn't meet that requirement. > For master cards, the minion in a sense doesn't meet the requirements > while in torpor, but on the other hand, in a sense he *does* meet the > requirements of the *card*, he just doesn't grant the Methuselah the > ability to play the card while in torpor. A vampire in torpor does not meet the requirements of a master card that requires a ready member of a certain clan. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

<snip> >A vampire in torpor does not meet the requirements of a master card > that requires a ready member of a certain clan. So basically what you're saying is this: If you can't *play* the card with the burn option, you can burn/discard it. Correct? Of course, this is barring master restrictions due to OoT masters etc.

[ quoted text not captured ] Mostly. If the thing that keeps you from playing it is a lack of targets, that won't do, either. If the reason you can't play it is that you don't control a minion that meets the requirements of playing it, then you can burn it (which is how the rules read). [ quoted text not captured ]

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:407C5BAC...@white-wolf.com... > ? If the card requires a ready member of a certain clan to play, then > one in torpor doesn't meet that requirement. Sure. That's what I thought, but the wording of the rule left me slightly unsure, because it says first: "only a Methuselah who controls a ready minion who meets the requirements of a master card can play it" -> the minion's readiness is separated from "meeting the requirements" but then: "a Methuselah who doesn't control a minion that meets the requirements may discard the card" I'm not sure if this makes sense to anyone but me, but on looking at the rule, I could see the possibility of arguing that you do *control* a minion who meets the requirements even if you're not able to play the card because the minion isn't currently ready. Anyway - I think I understand it now. And if so, you cannot burn-option, for example, Council of Seraphim if your only Seraph is in torpor (because it only requires Seraph, not a *ready* Seraph), but you *can* burn-option Deep Cover Agent if your only Seraph is in torpor (since it requires a "ready" Seraph). I think it probably added to my confusion about the wording of the two pieces that I wasn't able at first to think of any burn-option cards that weren't masters requiring a clan (which require a ready member of the clan to play). Josh sing me something good this time