[LSJ] Dawn Operation (Again, But Different)

Hello LSJ/Everyone Card Text: Name: Dawn Operation Cardtype: Action Modifier Discipline: Fortitude [for] If this action is blocked, all damage inflicted to all vampires in the resulting combat is aggravated. Any vampire attempting to block may now choose not to block. [FOR] As above, but vampires attempting to block cannot back out The Lead Up: Player A is Bleeding B. B Blocks. A Plays 'Dawn Operation' at Inferior Giving Option to Back Out. (Also Asking if he chooses to Backout) B Declines to Back Out. A Picks Back up to 7. A Topdecked a 'Daring the Dawn' off the Dawn Operation & Plays it making the action now impossible to block by vampires. The Question: 1. Im confused as to when Combat should start (if any) if Player B (who was asked if he wanted to Back Out) says he does not want to back out of Combat. 2. I understand they can be played even if the Minon is yet to successfully block, however it still raises the steps once the player is 'Asked' if he wants to Backout or not. I Guess I just want a clarification that even if the minion says 'No I Don't want to Backout of Combat' that they can continue to play Action Modifiers Afterwards. Thanks LSJ/Everyone :) -- Brian Skelly Local Player of the Adelaide V:EKN

"Brian Skelly" <brian...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:6f09e9c3.04091...@posting.google.com... > Hello LSJ/Everyone > > Card Text: > > Name: Dawn Operation > Cardtype: Action Modifier > Discipline: Fortitude > [for] If this action is blocked, all damage inflicted to all > vampires in the resulting combat is aggravated. Any vampire > attempting to block may now choose not to block. > [FOR] As above, but vampires attempting to block cannot back out > > The Lead Up: > > Player A is Bleeding B. > B Blocks. > A Plays 'Dawn Operation' at Inferior Giving Option to Back Out. > (Also Asking if he chooses to Backout) > B Declines to Back Out. > A Picks Back up to 7. > A Topdecked a 'Daring the Dawn' off the Dawn Operation & Plays it > making the action now impossible to block by vampires. > > The Question: > > 1. Im confused as to when Combat should start (if any) if Player B > (who was asked if he wanted to Back Out) says he does not want to > back out of Combat. (IANLSJ but this is how I believe you analyze it.) Check the card text. Break it down. The inferior version has two effects: #1 - It modifies the rules for combat which would normally occur IF THIS ACTION IS BLOCKED. #2 - It gives the blocking vampire an unusual option which its controller would not normally have. Normally, if you declare a block and have sufficient intercept for the acting minions stealth, the action is unsuccessful and combat MUST occur - neither player has a choice about that. With this effect, the controller of any vampire who happened to be in the process of attempting to block the action when Dawn Ops is played may immediately opt to cancel their block attempt. The superior version refers to the inferior version but negates the second effect defined in the inferior version. Notice that nowhere here does it say anything about "immediate combat" or anything else that would change the normal procedure for actions, blocking, stealth, or intercept. You are needlessly complicating the scenario by bothering to refer to a "topdecked Daring the Dawn". Imagine the acting player - his bluff having been called - simply chooses to play a Cloak the Gathering he was already holding in his hand. The blocking player has no intercept so that's that - action successful, no combat (other blockers not withstanding). > 2. I understand they can be played even if the Minon is yet to > successfully block, however it still raises the steps once the > player is 'Asked' if he wants to Backout or not. I'm not sure what you're asking here exactly but if you're wondering if the other usual rules for acting, blocking, intercept, stealth, and anything else in the realm of action modifiers and reactions still goes on as normal, I think the answer is yes. > I Guess I just want a clarification that even if the minion says > 'No I Don't want to Backout of Combat' that they can continue to > play Action Modifiers Afterwards. No text says you can't. Therefore, no reason to assume you can't. Fred

"Frederick Scott" <dont...@mymail.com> wrote in message news:XCv1d.89158$yh.65676@fed1read05... [ quoted text not captured ] Correct. (A would actually draw to replace Dawn Operation as soon as he played it -- without waiting for B to decide to back out or not). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu

> > 2. I understand they can be played even if the Minon is yet to > > successfully block, however it still raises the steps once the > > player is 'Asked' if he wants to Backout or not. > > I'm not sure what you're asking here exactly but if you're > wondering if the other usual rules for acting, blocking, intercept, > stealth, and anything else in the realm of action modifiers and > reactions still goes on as normal, I think the answer is yes. I get what you are asking. The person can ask this question before the blocking meth declines to block... whether he gets an answer or not is another matter. :) The question about backing out or not should offically be asked and acted upon once the blocking meth declines to block the action. > > > I Guess I just want a clarification that even if the minion says > > 'No I Don't want to Backout of Combat' that they can continue to > > play Action Modifiers Afterwards. > > No text says you can't. Therefore, no reason to assume you can't. Until the the blocking meth declines to block the question of backing out or not the question remains only as table talk. Andrew