New Vampire: Ellison Humboldt

Here's the new vampire previewed today: Ellison Humboldt Nosferatu ANI OBF POT PRE pro 9-cap Camarilla Primogen: Princes cannot block Ellison. During a referendum, Ellison may burn a blood to force a ready prince to vote as Ellison's controller wishes. This can change the prince's votes. BernieTime Lansing, Michigan

>Ellison Humboldt >Nosferatu >ANI OBF POT PRE pro >9-cap > >Camarilla Primogen: Princes cannot block Ellison. During a referendum, >Ellison may burn a blood to force a ready prince to vote as Ellison's >controller wishes. This can change the prince's votes. Initially, I think Ellison is pretty spiffy. Finally a Primogen that the Prince's have to shut up and listen to :-) My only reservation is his Superior Presence. It becomes obvious that many people will start popping this guy into their Setite Vote decks. What's done is done, but wish he only came with inferior pre. And wouldn't it be kooky if he had inferior Melpominae. All moot, but fun to ponder. BernieTime Lansing, Michigan

<berni...@attbi.comHOLDLeSPAM> wrote in message news:3d32ee74....@netnews.attbi.com... > >Ellison Humboldt > >Nosferatu > >ANI OBF POT PRE pro > >9-cap > > > >Camarilla Primogen: Princes cannot block Ellison. During a referendum, > >Ellison may burn a blood to force a ready prince to vote as Ellison's > >controller wishes. This can change the prince's votes. > > Initially, I think Ellison is pretty spiffy. Finally a Primogen that > the Prince's have to shut up and listen to :-) Indeed! Hey LSJ, does "force a ready prince to vote" mean he can force a currently-abstaining prince to vote, unlike Kindred Coercion and such? The "force" makes it sound like it could work... :-) > My only reservation is his Superior Presence. It becomes obvious that > many people will start popping this guy into their Setite Vote decks. Is this supposed to be a bad thing? Don't we want to be able to get as much use as possible out of new vampires? Especially if they're 9-caps, shouldn't we expect them to have the skills to fit into more than one deck? I mean really, he still costs 9! Is he better for a Setite vote deck than Khay'Tall? When he can't even call Free States Rant? > What's done is done, but wish he only came with inferior pre. And > wouldn't it be kooky if he had inferior Melpominae. All moot, but fun > to ponder. I'll be pretty surprised if they give Bloodlines clan-specific disciplines to any of the vampires not in the appropriate clan. Pleasantly surprised, but surprised. :-) Josh mm, new vampires

> I'll be pretty surprised if they give Bloodlines clan-specific > disciplines to any of the vampires not in the appropriate clan. > Pleasantly surprised, but surprised. :-) There's one: Unre, Keeper of Golgotha, a Harbinger of Skulls, has inferior Thanatosis.

"Jozxyqk" <jfeu...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote in message news:WPCY8.372051$R61.3...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net... [ quoted text not captured ] Oooh, good point. I knew that but then forgot. So I guess I should say I'll be surprised if any non-Bloodlines vamps get Bloodlines disciplines. But not as surprised as I would have been a minute ago. :-) Josh would really enjoy having another vampire with temporis

Joshua Duffin wrote: > Hey LSJ, does "force a ready prince to vote" mean he > can force a currently-abstaining prince to vote, unlike Kindred > Coercion and such? The "force" makes it sound like it could > work... :-) Yes. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

> Here's the new vampire previewed today: > > > Ellison Humboldt > Nosferatu > ANI OBF POT PRE pro > 9-cap I just realised it was another True Brujah in disguise : this time, a friend of Nu, the Pillar !! Nu : ani aus POT PRE pro TEM The disciplines would be Ani, Pro, Pot, Pre, Tem (Ellison has Obf for some Tem effects). A lot of disciplines, granted, but it could be quite effective : the usual IG or Lapse / Carrion Crows combo, + Pro aggravated hand strike (in Undead Strength ?), plus the usual good Temp cards under Pre and Obf... Expensive, but could work, couldn't it ? Orpheus, Prince of silly combos

Orpheus wrote: ::: Here's the new vampire previewed today: ::: ::: ::: Ellison Humboldt ::: Nosferatu ::: ANI OBF POT PRE pro ::: 9-cap :: :: I just realised it was another True Brujah in disguise : this time, :: a friend of Nu, the Pillar !! :: :: Nu : ani aus POT PRE pro TEM :: :: The disciplines would be Ani, Pro, Pot, Pre, Tem (Ellison has Obf :: for some Tem effects). A lot of disciplines, granted, but it could :: be quite effective ::: the usual IG or Lapse / Carrion Crows combo, + Pro aggravated hand ::: strike (in Undead Strength ?), plus the usual good Temp cards under ::: Pre and Obf... no, no no... He's a Baali in disguise =) Give him a patagia, and he'll work along with Infernal concording Mary & Giotto ;) reyda

>Camarilla Primogen: Princes cannot block Ellison. During a referendum, >Ellison may burn a blood to force a ready prince to vote as Ellison's >controller wishes. This can change the prince's votes. Ugh! I take it from the wording ("referendum" instead of "political action") that Ellison can use his ability during Blood Hunts? If so, I don't really like that (not that anyone necessarily cares) since it adds yet another ability that can be used during Blood Hunts. And it'll be doubly confusing because we'll have two lists of stuff, one list which can be used during BH and one that can't. In addition, a swinging Prince vote (difference of 4 votes) can be *very* powerful in manipulating a Blood Hunt vote... Halcyan 2

> no, no no... > He's a Baali in disguise =) > Give him a patagia, and he'll work along with Infernal concording Mary & > Giotto ;) T'es engagé par Aucun Rapport Ltd ? ;-) (no translation currently available, but a N.A.S.A. computer is still working on it...) BTW, still awake ? Looks like you and me are the only really nocturnal vampires around here... ;-)

berni...@attbi.comHOLDLeSPAM wrote in message news:<3d32ee74....@netnews.attbi.com>... > >Ellison Humboldt > >Nosferatu > >ANI OBF POT PRE pro > >9-cap > > > >Camarilla Primogen: Princes cannot block Ellison. During a referendum, > >Ellison may burn a blood to force a ready prince to vote as Ellison's > >controller wishes. This can change the prince's votes. > > > Initially, I think Ellison is pretty spiffy. Finally a Primogen that > the Prince's have to shut up and listen to :-) > > My only reservation is his Superior Presence. It becomes obvious that > many people will start popping this guy into their Setite Vote decks. Hellllll no (or, maybe yes, but I would pop him somewhere else). Now that 5th is allegedly less powerful, time to crank in some voter cap - presence nossies in the nossie stealth vote deck. Tobias Deventer

"Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20020715193606...@mb-fz.aol.com... > >Camarilla Primogen: Princes cannot block Ellison. During a referendum, > >Ellison may burn a blood to force a ready prince to vote as Ellison's > >controller wishes. This can change the prince's votes. > > > Ugh! I take it from the wording ("referendum" instead of "political action") > that Ellison can use his ability during Blood Hunts? I've the same suspicions... > If so, I don't really like that (not that anyone necessarily cares) since it I care! (hopefully that gives you the warm fuzzies to get you through the day). > adds yet another ability that can be used during Blood Hunts. And it'll be > doubly confusing because we'll have two lists of stuff, one list which can be > used during BH and one that can't. In addition, a swinging Prince vote > (difference of 4 votes) can be *very* powerful in manipulating a Blood Hunt > vote... Absolutely. Don't diablerize when Ellison is on the table unless you're an archon...simple as that! (or if there are no princes ready).

"Orpheus" <orph...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:agvksl$fd8$1...@wanadoo.fr... > > Here's the new vampire previewed today: > > > > > > Ellison Humboldt > > Nosferatu > > ANI OBF POT PRE pro > > 9-cap > > I just realised it was another True Brujah in disguise : this time, a friend > of Nu, the Pillar !! > > Nu : ani aus POT PRE pro TEM Of course! They had to replace Nu's other friend from Group1, Don Cruez, The Idealist POT PRE CEL ani pro They can both play Beast Meld at inferior. Think of the power. ;- ) > > The disciplines would be Ani, Pro, Pot, Pre, Tem (Ellison has Obf for some > Tem effects). A lot of disciplines, granted, but it could be quite effective > : the usual IG or Lapse / Carrion Crows combo, + Pro aggravated hand strike > (in Undead Strength ?), plus the usual good Temp cards under Pre and Obf... > > Expensive, but could work, couldn't it ? Yeah, but unless you worked in a vote angle (for the pre) you would be better off using Badger and Wynn, with the Freak Drives, etc... Colin Riggs the cheating phase never ends

On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:46:35 GMT, berni...@attbi.comHOLDLeSPAM wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Is it just me or dont' all these new vampires seem insanely powerful? Brujah with 2 specials AND +1 intercept? Nos primagen with permanent Kindred Coercion...etc etc. T

[ quoted text not captured ] A 9-cap non-Prince "insanely powerful"?!? No. They seem like they might actually be worth investing 9 pool. It was the 9-caps, aside from the Princes, in Jyhad that were insanely weak. Fred

<Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com> wrote in message news:3d375f6c.91952291@news... > Is it just me or dont' all these new vampires seem insanely powerful? > Brujah with 2 specials AND +1 intercept? Nos primagen with permanent > Kindred Coercion...etc etc. The only Brujah I've seen (Sir Ralph Hamilton) doesn't have +1 intercept. He has +1 strength vs younger Camarilla and a disad that Setites get +1 bleed against his controller. How this is insanely powerful I don't know. If the Nos (Ellison Humboldt) were himself a Prince as well as being able to control someone else's Prince's votes, I'd say he was very powerful. As a Primogen (no Traditions), not so much. Good, yes, unlike plenty of earlier 9-caps who rarely if ever leave the box. Josh the nine-cap solution

> > Nu : ani aus POT PRE pro TEM > > Of course! They had to replace Nu's other friend from Group1, > Don Cruez, The Idealist POT PRE CEL ani pro Yup, s'right. > They can both play Beast Meld at inferior. Think of the power. ;- ) lol > > The disciplines would be Ani, Pro, Pot, Pre, Tem (Ellison has Obf for some > > Tem effects). A lot of disciplines, granted, but it could be quite > effective > > : the usual IG or Lapse / Carrion Crows combo, + Pro aggravated hand > strike > > (in Undead Strength ?), plus the usual good Temp cards under Pre and > Obf... > > > > Expensive, but could work, couldn't it ? > > Yeah, but unless you worked in a vote angle (for the pre) you would be > better off using Badger and Wynn, with the Freak Drives, etc... Some bleeding can come in too, and there are some nice Pre / Tem reactions... And I don't see where For kicks in, no need for it when you have Nu !! > Colin Riggs > the cheating phase never ends ?-)

Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com wrote in message news:<3d375f6c.91952291@news>... [ quoted text not captured ] > Brujah with 2 specials AND +1 intercept? Nos primogen with permanent > Kindred Coercion...etc etc. I think it will be very interesting once all the vampires are available to be dissected in the NG. If ALL the large vampires get more powerful, there will simply be a lot more vicious vampiric interactions at the highest level. If Fifth tradition is limited as purported, the big vampires will be much more enticing to play, but much more difficult to keep well-sated and full. While I like the Cammies a lot, I am even more interested in when they fix up the Independent clans. FN did quite a bit to help them out, but of all the clans, those definitely need the most crypt work. I am just very happy the big vampires are finally getting an overhaul. I like them much more than the small caps just as a style of play. Jeff

[ quoted text not captured ] Matter of perspective then. Certianly there were some weak vamps but I thought most of them fine. These new vamps previewed so far have sup disciplines and specials all over the place. No blocks by princes AND superior kindred coercion over a prince in addition to his title and disciplines seems like quite alot to me. T

On 16 Jul 2002 15:31:49 -0700, jeff...@hotmail.com (Jeff Kuta) wrote: > I am just >very happy the big vampires are finally getting an overhaul. I like >them much more than the small caps just as a style of play. > >Jeff See that's kinda the point...I wonder if there is a conscious design effor to increase the power of the elder vamps to offset weenie decks. T

In message <3d3607ba.38948144@news>, Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com mumbled something about: >On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:08:07 GMT, Frederick Scott ><freds64_at_...@removethis.com> wrote: > >>Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com wrote: >>> Is it just me or dont' all these new vampires seem insanely powerful? >>> Brujah with 2 specials AND +1 intercept? Nos primagen with permanent >>> Kindred Coercion...etc etc. >> >>A 9-cap non-Prince "insanely powerful"?!? No. They seem like they might >>actually be worth investing 9 pool. It was the 9-caps, aside from the >>Princes, in Jyhad that were insanely weak. >> >Matter of perspective then. Certianly there were some weak vamps but >I thought most of them fine. These new vamps previewed so far have >sup disciplines and specials all over the place. Well, yes. If you're going to bring out a 9-cap, it had better be worth as much as three 3-caps. If your 9-cap looks like Crusher, it just ain't worth it. Crusher fits in exactly one deck; the deck using his Fortitude AND at least two more of his disciplines. In every other deck, the disciplines one seeks are available much cheaper, and his +1 strength isn't enough to make up for 2-3 pool. >No blocks by princes AND superior kindred coercion over a prince in >addition to his title and disciplines seems like quite alot to me. I bet they do, if you compare them to Marty Lechtansi. But really, how many decks do you see Marty (quiet, Josh) in these days? That's right. Zero. But why? Marty only lacks one discipline point compared to Ellison, and is a Camarilla Primogen,... and had superior Dominate to boot? Even if you give Marty superior ANI, he's still not worth including in most decks... because while he's not a SUCKY 9-cap, disciplines alone just don't do it at that level. You gotta have more. Marty is worth two 3-caps, more than a lot of 9s from Jyhad. But 9-caps take 3 turns to get... they need to be worth three 3-caps. -- "There's no gray. There's just white that's got grubby." -- T.P.

Derek Ray wrote: > In message <3d3607ba.38948144@news>, > Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com mumbled something about: > >>On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:08:07 GMT, Frederick Scott >><freds64_at_...@removethis.com> wrote: >> >>>Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com wrote: >>> >>>>Is it just me or dont' all these new vampires seem insanely powerful? >>>>Brujah with 2 specials AND +1 intercept? Nos primagen with permanent >>>>Kindred Coercion...etc etc. >>> >>>A 9-cap non-Prince "insanely powerful"?!? No. They seem like they might >>>actually be worth investing 9 pool. It was the 9-caps, aside from the >>>Princes, in Jyhad that were insanely weak. >>> >> >>Matter of perspective then. Certianly there were some weak vamps but >>I thought most of them fine. These new vamps previewed so far have >>sup disciplines and specials all over the place. Compare them to the Sabbat or Independent vampires, instead of the orginal Camarilla ones, and they don't come out that strong. > Well, yes. If you're going to bring out a 9-cap, it had better be worth > as much as three 3-caps. > > If your 9-cap looks like Crusher, it just ain't worth it. Crusher fits > in exactly one deck; the deck using his Fortitude AND at least two more > of his disciplines. In every other deck, the disciplines one seeks are > available much cheaper, and his +1 strength isn't enough to make up for > 2-3 pool. You're forgetting his built-in dodge. Don't laugh, it saved my butt a few times, it's a nice ability if you're toolboxing and/or come across a deck with 'hit back' combat defense. :) Flux

"Joshua Duffin" <jtdu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news > If the Nos (Ellison Humboldt) were himself a Prince as well > as being able to control someone else's Prince's votes, I'd > say he was very powerful. As a Primogen (no Traditions), > not so much. Good, yes, unlike plenty of earlier 9-caps who > rarely if ever leave the box. Well, since he have superior Presence and 1 vote, i guess it's not hard to promote himself to Nosferatu Justicar or Prince of Lisbon, is it? ;) Anyway the idea is to mix him with other vampires in the crypt that could be Princes or Justicar. .- Luis Duarte - Lisbon ;)

In message <62db1f0c.02071...@posting.google.com>, luis....@clix.pt (Luis Duarte) mumbled something about: >"Joshua Duffin" <jtdu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news >> If the Nos (Ellison Humboldt) were himself a Prince as well >> as being able to control someone else's Prince's votes, I'd >> say he was very powerful. As a Primogen (no Traditions), >> not so much. Good, yes, unlike plenty of earlier 9-caps who >> rarely if ever leave the box. > >Well, since he have superior Presence and 1 vote, i guess it's >not hard to promote himself to Nosferatu Justicar or Prince >of Lisbon, is it? ;) Gotta draw the card... before you draw any of the OTHER cards. make-self-Prince THEN parity-shift can actually work, yes, but influence-out-prince is always faster and more reliable. >Anyway the idea is to mix him with other vampires in the crypt >that could be Princes or Justicar. You mean Nikolaus and Murat, neither of whom have Presence? =) But wait... there's Amadeo! Another Primogen. =) Of course, there could always be another Nossie with PRE/pre in the works... I guess we'll have to wait and see. =) [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <3d370849.39090545@news>, Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com writes: >See that's kinda the point...I wonder if there is a conscious design >effor to increase the power of the elder vamps to offset weenie decks. Designers in attempting to balance different deck styles shocker. Film at 11. -- James Coupe PGP 0x5D623D5D I am woman. Here, me raw. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 13D7E668C3695D623D5D

> Designers in attempting to balance different deck styles shocker. > > Film at 11. > > -- > James Coupe Were you eating pop corn while you wrote that? I wonder if anyone will get that refrence. More PRE/pre nos and more OBF ventrue will change the landscape, we'll just have to wait and see how much. I'm wondering about the non-cam vampires in the set. A 4 cap tzimcise with ANI and vis? That would be lovely. I've got this concept you see... I'm trying to do something with the fiends that isn't intercept combat. Wish me luck. d.

>I'm wondering about >the non-cam vampires in the set. A 4 cap tzimcise with ANI and vis? That >would be lovely. I've got this concept you see... I'm trying to do >something with the fiends that isn't intercept combat. Wish me luck. d. Trying to do something with them besides intercept combat and want superior Animalism? I don't build Tzimisce intercept combat decks anymore. What I really need is a 3 or a 5 cap with VIC (actually, I'd prefer both). Fit into a number of my Tzimisce decks.

> >something with the fiends that isn't intercept combat. Wish me luck. d. > Trying to do something with them besides intercept combat and want superior > Animalism? Yeah, trying a ANI bruse,'n'bleed with Tier of Souls spread all over. Tier of Souls, trap, crows and bats, Terror Frenzy, Goratrix (maybe with Lambach too) hanging around to play defelctions and thoughts betrayed on the nasty vamps. I was getting too many clans involved though. I had Tzimicse, Tremere and !Tremere, Nos and !Nos... it was getting wacky and very high capacity. A few ANI 3 and 4 caps would be amazing.

In message <nyhZ8.240$Ag2....@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>, Dave Brereton <Brer...@shaw.ca> writes: >> Designers in attempting to balance different deck styles shocker. >> >> Film at 11. > >Were you eating pop corn while you wrote that? I wonder if anyone will get >that refrence. I mostly use it in a Usenet context. One common situation is the imminent death of Usenet being predicted. The habitual follow-up, presumably drawing from elsewhere, is "Death of Usenet predicted. Film at 11." -- James Coupe [ quoted text not captured ]

>> Trying to do something with them besides intercept combat and want >superior >> Animalism? > >Yeah, trying a ANI bruse,'n'bleed with Tier of Souls spread all over. Tier >of Souls, trap, crows and bats, Terror Frenzy, Goratrix (maybe with Lambach >too) hanging around to play defelctions and thoughts betrayed on the nasty >vamps. I was getting too many clans involved though. I had Tzimicse, >Tremere and !Tremere, Nos and !Nos... it was getting wacky and very high >capacity. A few ANI 3 and 4 caps would be amazing. > Weenie Animalism is a decent archetype. Sounds like what you are trying to do. Yes, a 4 cap with ANI would be like good. But, besides the odd War Ghoul, not sure why it would make any difference what clan you were using for such a deck.

<snipped> > > But wait... there's Amadeo! Another Primogen. =) > > Of course, there could always be another Nossie with PRE/pre in the > works... I guess we'll have to wait and see. =) Well, he can get some support from those 2 BIG nos/!Nos: Cailean and the nos IC. Both has title and PRE/pre [ quoted text not captured ]

Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > Gotta draw the card... before you draw any of the OTHER cards. > You mean Nikolaus and Murat, neither of whom have Presence? =) Yes, of course, but you can promote him to Prince in the middle of the game, after controling other Nosferatu Princes, and with the additional help of Elysium:Versailles, for example. Even can be another prince promoting him with a Closed Session. There are plenty of solutions to do politics without Presence. Or you can risk a bit and wait for a presence-aid-combo only for him. > But wait... there's Amadeo! Another Primogen. =) But Amadeo cannot change another Prince's votes... and that's a hell of a difference, isn't it? He can use his ability during a Praxis Seizure called by another Prince with Closed Session to promote him. Ideas... so many new ideas!! :) > Of course, there could always be another Nossie with PRE/pre in the > works... I guess we'll have to wait and see. =) Yes, indeed! :) .- Luis Duarte

>Yes, of course, but you can promote him to Prince in the middle >of the game, after controling other Nosferatu Princes, and with >the additional help of Elysium:Versailles, for example. Even can >be another prince promoting him with a Closed Session. Really? Now how did you get *that* trick to work? Every time I've had a Prince try to call a Praxis Seizure with a Closed Session, they end up changing their own city instead of making some *other* vampire Prince. >He can use his ability during >a Praxis Seizure called by another Prince with Closed Session to >promote him. Which helps the previous Prince secure the Princedom to another city. Which although useful at times, doesn't really help the supporting Primogen... Halcyan 2