leg...@generation.net (legrand) writes:
>A friend came up with a question:
>Silence of Death says that all my strikes this round are First Strikes. Does
>this mean that I get to do all my strikes then he may do his if he survives,
>as I believe? Or does it mean that, supposing we both blur, I make my 1st
>strike, then he does if he's still able, then I do my second, followed by his,
>then my third, and finally his if he survived to it all?
The latter. You strikes are always paired with the corresponding
strikes of your opponent. Normally the paired strikes resolve
simultaneously. If one is done with first strike, however, it will
resolve first in its pair.
>Also, I read on this group that normal dodges and S:CE cancel the strikes made
>as First Strike. I think it's false, but am not quite sure.
They both beat First strike, yes. This is spelled out in the rulebook.
--
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Cats teach us that not
http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | everything in nature has
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | a function.
A friend came up with a question:
Silence of Death says that all my strikes this round are First Strikes. Does
this mean that I get to do all my strikes then he may do his if he survives,
as I believe? Or does it mean that, supposing we both blur, I make my 1st
strike, then he does if he's still able, then I do my second, followed by his,
then my third, and finally his if he survived to it all?
Also, I read on this group that normal dodges and S:CE cancel the strikes made
as First Strike. I think it's false, but am not quite sure.
Thanks,
Philippe Richer
legrand (leg...@generation.net) wrote:
: A friend came up with a question:
Feel free to wait for a resident rulesmonger, but I'll reply anyway:
: Silence of Death says that all my strikes this round are First Strikes.
Fair enough.
: Does this mean that I get to do all my strikes then he may do his if: he survives, as I believe?
It means that for each "pair" of strikes, yours will resolve first. No
more, no less. You still declare your strikes at the same time.
: Or does it mean that, supposing we both: blur, I make my 1st strike, then he does if he's still able, then I
: do my second, followed by his, then my third, and finally his if he
: survived to it all?
Your second try is closer. Again, feel free to wait for a rulemonger, but I
believe the sequence to be: (I will inclued a quote from LSJ's excellent
rules reference as a postscript...)
You both declare your strike.
If anyone has a first strike, that strike resolves first.
All other strikes resolve.
You repeat the above sequence for each additional strike.
: Also, I read on this group that normal dodges and S:CE cancel the: strikes made as First Strike. I think it's false, but am not quite
: sure.
Unfortunately, it has been ruled to be true.
-spongy
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From LSJ's rules summary:
D. Strikes. (8.1) [15.1]
1. Minions announce their strikes (and the targets, where applicable).
a. Acting Minion announces Strike and Target before Blocking Minion does.
b. Non-ranged offensive strikes can only target the opposing Minion.
c. Ranged offensive strikes can target the opposing Minion or, if the
range is long, one of his Retainers. (20.1)
d. Non-ammo Damage modifiers must be played now to be effective. [RTR]
2. Resolve Strikes.
a. Strikes resolve in the following order. If both strikes are in the
same class, then they resolve simultaneously. [15.3]
EXCEPTION: if both strikes are Strike: Combat Ends, then the acting
minion's strike resolves first (nullifying the defender's). [RTR]
i. Strike: Combat Ends. (8.3) (Go to step F)
ii. Strike: Dodge. (8.3) (Cancel the opposing strike's effect(s) on the
dodging minion and his Equipment, but not his Retainers).
NOTE: Damage to Retainers can be prevented with cards (20.1) that
say that they can prevent damage to retainers. [RTR] (12) [10]
iii. Any strike done with First Strike. (resolve steps b-d before moving
on to step iv). (8.3)
iv. Any other strikes. (resolve steps b-d)
b. Apply effects of strike(s). Effects are applied simultaneously if the
strikes are both the same type (from step 2.a).
i. Inflict Damage. Damage Prevention cards may be played ONLY during
this step. [RTR] Unprevented damage isn't healed until step c.
ii. Destroy Equipment. Burn a single Equipment card on the opposing
Minion. Default is "only at close range". (8.3) [15.3]
iii. Steal Equipment. Move a single Equipment card from the opposing
Minion to this Minion. Default is "only at close". (8.3) [15.3]
NOTE: Stolen equipment cannot be used the same round it is stolen.
iv. Steal Blood. Removes blood from the opponent and places it on this
Vampire. Blood stolen in excess of this Vampire's blood capacity is
burned. Stolen blood may be used to heal damage (step c). (8.3)
v. Paralyze (Jyhad). Sends the opposing Vampire to Torpor, tapped.
Mark the Vampire to show that it has been Paralyzed. (22.1)
c. Resolve any unprevented damage (see section VI).
d. If one or both Combatants are no longer Ready, go to step F.
3. Acting Minion has option to gain additional strikes. (21)
4. Blocking Minion has option to gain additional strikes. (21)
5. Resolve steps 1-2 above for each additional strike that a Minion has.
E. Presses....
F. Round ends....
>>Also, I read on this group that normal dodges and S:CE cancel the strikes
>>made as First Strike. I think it's false, but am not quite sure.>They both beat First strike, yes. This is spelled out in the rulebook.
Ok, I'm curious then - unless you have a card that gives you something with
first strike (such as Destroy Equipment) what good is having First Strike
anyway? What does it do for you if your opponent is still able to hit you even
tho you do aggravated damage? It just seems to make no sense to me especially
when S:CE and Dodge beat it. I dunno, perhaps there is something I am
overlooking...?
Sorrow
--
I don't want to be alone | I hurt, therefore I am
anymore |--------------------------------
I don't want to be anyone | "What are you looking at...?
anymore | you never seen anyone try to
I don't need a reason to kill myself | commit suicide before?" - Anon
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorrow (cbo...@apdi.net) wrote:
: >>Also, I read on this group that normal dodges and S:CE cancel the strikes: >>made as First Strike. I think it's false, but am not quite sure.
: >They both beat First strike, yes. This is spelled out in the rulebook.: Ok, I'm curious then - unless you have a card that gives you
: something with first strike (such as Destroy Equipment) what good is
: having First Strike anyway? What does it do for you if your
: opponent is still able to hit you even tho you do aggravated damage?
If you do agg. damage in your first strike, they CAN'T hit you if they
don't have a first strike because your strike resolves first. You both
DECLARE your strikes, but yours resolves first and sends 'im to torpor
before his can be applied.
: It just seems to make no sense to me especially when S:CE and Dodge: beat it. I dunno, perhaps there is something I am overlooking...?
Dodge and S:CE beat it, normal strikes don't.
In other words, if you play a first strike with aggravated damage and they
CAN'T dodge or S:CE, they will go to torpor before their strike because
a First Strike resolves first. Also, if you had a first strike destroy
equipment and your opponent was using a weapon, you would destroy it
before they have a chance to "use" it and their strike would fizzle.
That's a couple of reasons that First strikes are good.
-spongy
cbo...@apdi.net (Sorrow) writes:
>>>Also, I read on this group that normal dodges and S:CE cancel the strikes
>>>made as First Strike. I think it's false, but am not quite sure.>>They both beat First strike, yes. This is spelled out in the rulebook.>Ok, I'm curious then - unless you have a card that gives you something with
>first strike (such as Destroy Equipment) what good is having First Strike
>anyway? What does it do for you if your opponent is still able to hit you even>tho you do aggravated damage? It just seems to make no sense to me especially>when S:CE and Dodge beat it. I dunno, perhaps there is something I am
>overlooking...?
If he isn't ready after the 'first strike' strike is resolved, then
combat ends at that point (before his strike, which won't ever resolve).
So, if you strike with first strike and do aggravated damage (or simply
more damage than your opponent has blood), then the opponent's strike
won't get to resolve.
First strike only matters for Stealing equipment and doing aggravated
damage (and, in a few cases, stealing blood).
[ quoted text not captured ]
legrand (leg...@generation.net) wrote:
: A friend came up with a question:: Silence of Death says that all my strikes this round are First Strikes. Does: this mean that I get to do all my strikes then he may do his if he survives,: as I believe? Or does it mean that, supposing we both blur, I make my 1st: strike, then he does if he's still able, then I do my second, followed by his,
: then my third, and finally his if he survived to it all?
Only your initial strike resolves first. Your opponent then
makes his strike, and additional strikes follow after, in the
same pattern.
: Also, I read on this group that normal dodges and S:CE cancel the strikes made: as First Strike. I think it's false, but am not quite sure.
The do cancel first strikes, and S:CE cancels a dodge.
: Thanks,
: Philippe Richer
Wallpaper Paste
for all those useless cars
>If you do agg. damage in your first strike, they CAN'T hit you if they
>don't have a first strike because your strike resolves first. You both
>DECLARE your strikes, but yours resolves first and sends 'im to torpor
>before his can be applied.
Is This true?
Also, I thought that all strikes that were declared were resolved no matter
what. So if you are the acting minion and declare your strike first (thus
being first strike) and you do agg damage, then you don't get damaged that
round?
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <54o78p$f...@news.cais.com>, cbo...@apdi.net (Sorrow) writes:
> >>Also, I read on this group that normal dodges and S:CE cancel the strikes
> >>made as First Strike. I think it's false, but am not quite sure.> >They both beat First strike, yes. This is spelled out in the rulebook.
>
> Ok, I'm curious then - unless you have a card that gives you something with
> first strike (such as Destroy Equipment) what good is having First Strike
> anyway? What does it do for you if your opponent is still able to hit you even
> tho you do aggravated damage? It just seems to make no sense to me especially
> when S:CE and Dodge beat it. I dunno, perhaps there is something I am
> overlooking...?
>
If you do Agg damage, or enough damage to torpor/slay your opponent,
their strike will not resolve.
> Sorrow
Ritaxis
cbo...@apdi.net (Sorrow) writes:
>>If you do agg. damage in your first strike, they CAN'T hit you if they
>>don't have a first strike because your strike resolves first. You both
>>DECLARE your strikes, but yours resolves first and sends 'im to torpor
>>before his can be applied.>Is This true?
Yes, inasfar as the quoted message refers to one of the minions ("yours")
using First Strike while the other on doesn't.
>Also, I thought that all strikes that were declared were resolved no matter
>what. So if you are the acting minion and declare your strike first (thus
>being first strike) and you do agg damage, then you don't get damaged that
>round?
Just because a strike (the acting minion's) is declared first doesn't mean
that it will resolve first. The strikes (your and the corresponding
strike of the opponent) resolve in the following order:
i. Strike: Combat Ends
ii. Dodge
iii. Any strike done with First Strike
iv. Any other strike
If both the strikes fall into the same category abaove, then they resolve
at the same time [15.3] (with the exception that if they are both S:CE,
then the acting minion's S:CE resolves first - negating the blocker's S:CE).
If, after any step above (notably step iii.), one or both of the minions
is no longer ready, then combat is over.
[ quoted text not captured ]
>If he isn't ready after the 'first strike' strike is resolved, then
>combat ends at that point (before his strike, which won't ever resolve).
>So, if you strike with first strike and do aggravated damage (or simply
>more damage than your opponent has blood), then the opponent's strike
>won't get to resolve.
Ok, this is starting to make some manner of sense to me. So if you are the
acting minion and thus declare your strike first, is that the same as 'First
Strike'? (in that if you do aggro damage w/your strike, theirs doesn't get
resolved)
[ quoted text not captured ]
NOOOOO! : the acting minion is simply forced to declare first to make
it easier for the defending one to dodge/escape or whatever,
otherwise strikes are resolved simultaneously. First Strike is
special because it does take effect first and (although still being
avoided by dodges and suchlike) could potentially torporise the
opponent before their strike resolves.
In article <54t7hc$7...@news.cais.com> cbo...@apdi.net (Sorrow) writes:
[opponent's strike won't resolve if they're First Striked into torpor or burn.]
>
>Ok, this is starting to make some manner of sense to me. So if you are the
>acting minion and thus declare your strike first, is that the same as 'First
>Strike'? (in that if you do aggro damage w/your strike, theirs doesn't get
>resolved)
No, declaring the strike first is not the same as First Strike. There are
few First Strike cards, and the only ones that will give this result
- of the opponent not getting a strike -- are Backstab and the
Muddled Vampire Hunter.
--
Tom Doehne
doe...@cse.ogi.edu