Haven Uncovered w/Form Of Mist Question

This situation came up in a recent game... A Haven Uncovered has been placed on Ozmo, because everyone hates Malkavians, and Camille Deveraux (sp?) uses it to attack Ozmo as a +1 stealth action as per HU. Ozmo runs/ducks/weaves, and Camille runs out of presses before she torpors Ozmo, but she has a bright idea. "I'll use Form Of Mist, end the combat and continue with my action (mugging Ozmo) at +1 stealth". What happens? Form Of Mist was obviously meant by the designers to be used when an action is blocked, but this seems like it might be legitimate... If so, the combat would restart. We decided it wasn't a legal move at the time, but is there an official opinion (or better yet an unofficial consensus)? I assume this _must_ have come up in connection with Gangrels and Bum's Rush in the past... Kevin Lowe.

ml32...@student.uq.edu.au (Kevin Lowe) writes: [ quoted text not captured ] No official stance, but here's what I think: The action continues. Since it was done anyhow, it resumes at the 'Done' point, and is therefore still done. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | These opinions are mine and http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | are subject to card text. Graphics Specialist and Jyhad Rulemonger. |

Kevin Lowe (ml32...@student.uq.edu.au) wrote: : Ozmo runs/ducks/weaves, and Camille runs out of presses before she : torpors Ozmo, but she has a bright idea. "I'll use Form Of Mist, end the : combat and continue with my action (mugging Ozmo) at +1 stealth". What : happens? Form Of Mist was obviously meant by the designers to be used : when an action is blocked, but this seems like it might be legitimate... : If so, the combat would restart. I agree with you about how the designers probably intended it (note the 'as if unblocked' phrase on there) but can see no reason (that related to the cards) why Camille can't pull this trick. Nothin I know of stops her. Note that without the benefit of other cards, this would have exactly the same effect as letting the combat go to its normal conclusion; instead of getting that lat strike, she S:CE with the FoM, then gets one strike in the next combat. If you've a Mob Connections on play, or picked up a Trap after the opening round, you would be free to whale away on poor Ozmo... This seems like a semi-fair tradeoff to me: Camille is using up a valuable card, and Ozmo's Meth has another opportunity to block (he's been picking up cards too, presumably). I would have less problems with it if the FoM were fixed somehow - possibly as per Curt's suggestion and had a vampire-blood cost of 1 added to it. This way, Camille would be _paying_ for the opportunity. Intellectually - Evil, sneaky, imaginative... I LIKE it! Legally - can't seem to find a problem with it. Ethically - eh... Definitely making use of a broken card... Shane H.W. Travis | Should we raise a generation of literate Americans, tra...@duke.usask.ca | very little of America as we know it would survive. Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | --Richard Mitchell

In article 1...@dingo.cc.uq.oz.au, ml32...@student.uq.edu.au (Kevin Lowe) writes: > This situation came up in a recent game... > > A Haven Uncovered has been placed on Ozmo, because everyone hates > Malkavians, and Camille Deveraux (sp?) uses it to attack Ozmo as a +1 > stealth action as per HU. > > Ozmo runs/ducks/weaves, and Camille runs out of presses before she > torpors Ozmo, but she has a bright idea. "I'll use Form Of Mist, end the > combat and continue with my action (mugging Ozmo) at +1 stealth". What > happens? Form Of Mist was obviously meant by the designers to be used > when an action is blocked, but this seems like it might be legitimate... > If so, the combat would restart. > > We decided it wasn't a legal move at the time, but is there an official > opinion (or better yet an unofficial consensus)? I assume this _must_ have > come up in connection with Gangrels and Bum's Rush in the past... > > Kevin Lowe. > I would think it is not legal, your action was to attack ozmo, you can only use the continue action part of form of mist if that action is blocked. In the case described above the action was not. Now if someone had blocked you then you could do it and fight both the blocker and ozmo. Just my opinion, Steven Bauer

Kevin Lowe <ml32...@student.uq.edu.au> wrote: >Ozmo runs/ducks/weaves, and Camille runs out of presses before she >torpors Ozmo, but she has a bright idea. "I'll use Form Of Mist, end the >combat and continue with my action (mugging Ozmo) at +1 stealth". What >happens? Form Of Mist was obviously meant by the designers to be used >when an action is blocked, but this seems like it might be legitimate... >If so, the combat would restart. From the way you phrased the question, I'm going to say "not legal", because using superior Form of Mist is a strike, and it sounds like Camille was searching for options during the press step of the round. But if Camille has a strike available and anticipates being unable to press successfully, then she can strike to end combat and continue the action, even though it wasn't blocked in the first place. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes: >Kevin Lowe <ml32...@student.uq.edu.au> wrote: >>Ozmo runs/ducks/weaves, and Camille runs out of presses before she >>torpors Ozmo, but she has a bright idea. "I'll use Form Of Mist, end the >>combat and continue with my action (mugging Ozmo) at +1 stealth". What >>happens? Form Of Mist was obviously meant by the designers to be used >>when an action is blocked, but this seems like it might be legitimate... >>If so, the combat would restart. >if Camille has a strike available and anticipates being unable to >press successfully, then she can strike to end combat and continue the >action, even though it wasn't blocked in the first place. So the action "continues" by backing up (and restarting the combat)? (Just need to be clear here, sorry). [ quoted text not captured ]

FoM should probably be ruled to only be useably on a blocked action. a better wording for it would not be S:CE continue but play when an action is block to end combat (a la Elysium/Mariel/Ghoul) and continue at +! stealth.superior just my 2pool Stu -- Stu Pieloch TLTT Players-Lord High And Mighty Potentate of the Known Universe DramaTech Theatre Improv Troupe http://photobooks.gatech.edu/~zync/lttp.html GE/T/S d++(--) H(-) s++:- g+(-) p2 au++ a- w+++(--) v++ C++ U N++ W---() M+ V-- po+++(---) t--- 5+++ G+++ B--- e++ u++ f+ r++ n--- y*

[ quoted text not captured ] That is beter than the action continues even if it is not blocked. I always thought it was such a simple card, strike:combat ends (well I guess the effect of that part wasn't clear but that has been discussed) continue with action ... If there is no action or the action is complete(bum's rush) you just ignore this part. Now since if the action is complete it can still continue the next step would be if there is no action( ie. blocking) an action is spontanously created and it continues at +1 stealth. Steven Bauer email flames to sba...@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu

In article <42u235$9...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, Thomas R Wylie <aa...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote: > >L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote: >>>>Ozmo runs/ducks/weaves, and Camille runs out of presses before she >>>>torpors Ozmo, but she has a bright idea. "I'll use Form Of Mist, end the >>>>combat and continue with my action (mugging Ozmo) at +1 stealth". What >>>>happens? Form Of Mist was obviously meant by the designers to be used >>>>when an action is blocked, but this seems like it might be legitimate... >>>>If so, the combat would restart. >> >>>if Camille has a strike available and anticipates being unable to >>>press successfully, then she can strike to end combat and continue the >>>action, even though it wasn't blocked in the first place. >> >>So the action "continues" by backing up (and restarting the combat)? > >The action continues and a new combat begins, yes. I don't think I'd >call it "backing up", though. How does a new combat begin? Bum's Rush only lets you Rush someone once; if it wasn't blocked the first time, and it isn't blocked the second time, the action should continue (card text) from that point - combat being over. Hunter -- J. Hunter Johnson jhun...@io.com (Illuminati Online) "Eventually, all school subjects at all grades will be taught with GURPS supplements." -- Moriah (Mike Sullivan)

L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote: >>>Ozmo runs/ducks/weaves, and Camille runs out of presses before she >>>torpors Ozmo, but she has a bright idea. "I'll use Form Of Mist, end the >>>combat and continue with my action (mugging Ozmo) at +1 stealth". What >>>happens? Form Of Mist was obviously meant by the designers to be used >>>when an action is blocked, but this seems like it might be legitimate... >>>If so, the combat would restart. > >>if Camille has a strike available and anticipates being unable to >>press successfully, then she can strike to end combat and continue the >>action, even though it wasn't blocked in the first place. > >So the action "continues" by backing up (and restarting the combat)? The action continues and a new combat begins, yes. I don't think I'd call it "backing up", though. >(Just need to be clear here, sorry). No apologies necessary ;) [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <42u235$9...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, Thomas R Wylie <aa...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote: >>>if Camille has a strike available and anticipates being unable to >>>press successfully, then she can strike to end combat and continue the >>>action, even though it wasn't blocked in the first place. >> >>So the action "continues" by backing up (and restarting the combat)? > >The action continues and a new combat begins, yes. I don't think I'd >call it "backing up", though. Unless Bum's Rush normally initiates two combats, you'll have to back up to the point of "Enter Combat" if you want another combat to begin. Form of Mist certainly does not cause a combat (It tends to avoid it :-). I'd like to see the outline (a la Complete Rules Outline) that would allow Bum's Rush to resolve with two combats (barring re-combat effects like Psyche and Hidden Lurker) without "Backing Up". -- ----- L. Scott Johnson (lsc...@crl.com) | The opinions expressed are mine Graphics Specialist and Jyhad Rulemonger | and subject to card text

After an action is successful (i.e. a Bum's Rush) then any card (i.e. Form of Mist <sup>) which modifies the attempt at the action does not modify the attempt at the action. The Bum's Rush was successful, therefore you cannot continue on Bum's Rushing at +1 afterward. The Form of Mist -continue on at +1 stealth text would be ignored.