rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Question about Voting

9 messages from 6 participants · 06 June 1995 – 10 June 1995
original thread on Google Groups

Gord Culleton

Cyberai (cyb...@aol.com) writes: > If a titled minion brings a vote to the floor does the votes he get for > title count or just the 1 vote from the card? > I.e. A Justicar calls for a vote on a card. Since he was tapped to call > the vote can he still be used to add the three votes normally allowed to > him for his title? The vote intrinsic to the Political Action card counts as *your* vote, as a Metheusela. Any *ready* vampire may cast his/her votes, tapped or not. Jere Culleton (Rush Rules!!!)

L. Scott Johnson

cr...@Ra.MsState.Edu (Charles Richard Robb) writes: >Cyberai (cyb...@aol.com) wrote: >: If a titled minion brings a vote to the floor does the votes he get for >: title count or just the 1 vote from the card? >: I.e. A Justicar calls for a vote on a card. Since he was tapped to call >: the vote can he still be used to add the three votes normally allowed to >: him for his title? >You get 1 vote for the inital vote card plus votes based on ANY titled >vamps you control. A justicar would give you 3 plus 1 for the initial card. >Also, you can use vote action cards for votes by 'burning them' to your >discard pile. The only card replaced befpore the vote is over is the >initial vote action card plus any modiers played at the time the action >is unblocked. [disarming presence, bewithcing oration, etc.] No. Only action modifiers used to get a successful action are replaced. (Stealth, Day/Dawn Operation, Seduction, etc.) Action Modifiers peculiar to a referendum are *not* replaced. This includes Disarming Presence, Bewitching Oration, Bribes, Scorn of Adonis. Same thing for reaction cards. Intercept is replaced normally, since it is played before the vote starts. Other reaction cards that muck with the vote are not replaced (Dread Gaze, EKN, Surprise Influence, Pulling Strings). DTR 5/30/95: > Assuming a political action is successfully completed (i.e., >not successfully blocked), the acting player sets the referendum >of the vote. This is when the player is required to make any >choices involved with the vote. Again, the choice(s) made now do >not have to agree with any that were announced as the action >began. > Once the referendum is set, the voting process begins. The >political action has two steps: a preparatory step, and a vote >casting step. Cards such as Bribes, which say they are only >usable "before votes are cast", are only usable during the >preparatory step. No votes are actually cast during this step, >though cards that give votes may be used at that time in case the >player wants to cast those votes later. Cards used during the >preparatory step are not replaced until later. > Once the preparatory step concludes, players begin casting >votes. At this point only cards that give votes, or that modify >vampires' ability to vote, may be used. So Bewitching Oration, >using Ventrue Headquarters, and Pulling Strings are all legal, but >Elder Kindred Network is now illegal. It is possible to play a >card that gives votes without casting them right away, instead >holding those votes in reserve until later in the action. > Once everyone has finished gaining and casting votes, the >votes are tallied and the outcome is determined. Once the outcome >is known, cards like Political Action and Cryptic Rider may be >played. Only when players are done playing such cards do players >refill their hands. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu) | These opinions are mine and Graphics Specialist and Jyhad Rulemonger. | are subject to card text.

Charles Richard Robb

Cyberai (cyb...@aol.com) wrote: : If a titled minion brings a vote to the floor does the votes he get for [ quoted text not captured ] You get 1 vote for the inital vote card plus votes based on ANY titled [ quoted text not captured ]

Gord Culleton

Gary S Cerefice (cere...@athena.mit.edu) writes: > In article <3r0rk4$2...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, cyb...@aol.com (Cyberai) writes: > |> I.e. A Justicar calls for a vote on a card. Since he was tapped to call > |> the vote can he still be used to add the three votes normally allowed to > |> him for his title? > Yes. Being tapped does not prevent a vamp from voting. A meth gains > votes from any of his ready (ie, controlled, but not in topor) vamps, if they can > contribute votes.. So, in this case, the acting Justicar would get 4 votes. > Gary Uh, the vote on the Political Action card doesn't count as the acting minion's vote, but rather the Meth. controlling the minion. So, a Justicar tabling a vote gets 3 votes, and *you* get one for the card itself. So if he was affected by Astrid Thomas or Pulling Strings, you lose 3 votes, not 4. [Ref. DTR 05/09/95] Jere Culleton (Rush Rules!!!)

Thomas Doehne

In article <3r1g7i$l...@redwood.cs.scarolina.edu> sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) writes: >cr...@Ra.MsState.Edu (Charles Richard Robb) writes: >>Cyberai (cyb...@aol.com) wrote: Cyb:[How many votes do you get, if using a Titled vampire to call the vote] CRobb:[The correct answer, plus the following:] >>discard pile. The only card replaced befpore the vote is over is the >>initial vote action card plus any modiers played at the time the action >>is unblocked. [disarming presence, bewithcing oration, etc.] > >No. Only action modifiers used to get a successful action are replaced. >(Stealth, Day/Dawn Operation, Seduction, etc.) > >Action Modifiers peculiar to a referendum are *not* replaced. This includes >Disarming Presence, Bewitching Oration, Bribes, Scorn of Adonis. > >Same thing for reaction cards. Intercept is replaced normally, since it >is played before the vote starts. Other reaction cards that muck with the >vote are not replaced (Dread Gaze, EKN, Surprise Influence, Pulling Strings). > >DTR 5/30/95: [Quotes DTR] I don't see quite how the DT got this from a reading of the rules. The section about not replacing cards used is pretty clearly referring to vote cards, not action mods/reaction cards. This looks like another case of the DT reading in things that just aren't there. Would someone care to explain why it is, in fact correct? (Besides just "it's their game, and they can make it work the way they want to"). As the ruling stands, action modifiers and reactions played for political actions behave differently from all other ones. -- Tom Doehne doe...@cse.ogi.edu

L. Scott Johnson

In article <3r2bkd$9...@reuter.cse.ogi.edu>, Thomas Doehne <doe...@church.cse.ogi.edu> wrote: >In article <3r1g7i$l...@redwood.cs.scarolina.edu> >sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) writes: >>cr...@Ra.MsState.Edu (Charles Richard Robb) writes: >>>Cyberai (cyb...@aol.com) wrote: >Cyb:[How many votes do you get, if using a Titled vampire to call the vote] >CRobb:[The correct answer, plus the following:] >>>discard pile. The only card replaced befpore the vote is over is the >>>initial vote action card plus any modiers played at the time the action >>>is unblocked. [disarming presence, bewithcing oration, etc.] >> >>No. Only action modifiers used to get a successful action are replaced. >>(Stealth, Day/Dawn Operation, Seduction, etc.) >> >>Action Modifiers peculiar to a referendum are *not* replaced. This includes >>Disarming Presence, Bewitching Oration, Bribes, Scorn of Adonis. >> >>Same thing for reaction cards. Intercept is replaced normally, since it >>is played before the vote starts. Other reaction cards that muck with the >>vote are not replaced (Dread Gaze, EKN, Surprise Influence, Pulling Strings). >> >>DTR 5/30/95: >[Quotes DTR] > >I don't see quite how the DT got this from a reading of the rules. The >section about not replacing cards used is pretty clearly referring >to vote cards, not action mods/reaction cards. This looks like another >case of the DT reading in things that just aren't there. Well, that's true for the original rules. The "Corrected Rules" state that no cards are replaced, without limiting the statement to just vote cards. >Would someone >care to explain why it is, in fact correct? (Besides just "it's their >game, and they can make it work the way they want to"). As the ruling >stands, action modifiers and reactions played for political actions >behave differently from all other ones. Yes, but only because they're played *during* a Political Action, which means (to the DT) that they cannot be replaced until after the PA. -- ----- L. Scott Johnson (lsc...@crl.com) | The opinions expressed are mine Graphics Specialist and Jyhad Rulemonger | and subject to card text

Thomas R Wylie

Thomas Doehne <doe...@church.cse.ogi.edu> wrote: >I don't see quite how the DT got this from a reading of the rules. The >section about not replacing cards used is pretty clearly referring >to vote cards, not action mods/reaction cards. This looks like another >case of the DT reading in things that just aren't there. Would someone >care to explain why it is, in fact correct? (Besides just "it's their >game, and they can make it work the way they want to"). As the ruling >stands, action modifiers and reactions played for political actions >behave differently from all other ones. Those rulings were basically us sitting down and deciding how, ideally, political actions should work. We were very specifically not restraining ourselves to the letter of what is in the rulebook (either version), since those rules are incomplete at best and broken at worst, though we kept the rulings in the spirit of the rulebook. The rulings resulted from a combination of examining the cards usable during political actions, what originally appeared in the rulebooks, and considerations about accurate V:tM simulation. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Gary S Cerefice

In article <3r0rk4$2...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, cyb...@aol.com (Cyberai) writes: |> If a titled minion brings a vote to the floor does the votes he get for |> title count or just the 1 vote from the card? [ quoted text not captured ]

L. Scott Johnson

sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) writes: >No. Only action modifiers used to get a successful action are replaced. >(Stealth, Day/Dawn Operation, Seduction, etc.) >Action Modifiers peculiar to a referendum are *not* replaced. This includes >Disarming Presence, Bewitching Oration, Bribes, Scorn of Adonis. Well, Shane Travis just pointed out the Scorn is not to be included in the above list, and he is right. The DT has specifically stated that Scorn is not a "Usable only During a Political Action" card, and therefore cannot be used after the Political Action (the vote) starts. You must therefore use it during the Check-for-successful-action phase - which means it can be replaced. With the new version of the voting process, could we get an explanation of how Scorn really works? From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) Newsgroups: rec.games.deckmaster,rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad Subject: JYHAD: Design Team Rulings 02/09/95 Date: 14 Feb 1995 21:18:15 GMT 11) Can Scorn of Adonis be played after the vote has started/ended, or must it be played before the terms of the vote are stated? It must be played before the terms of the vote are stated. Only cards which say "Usable during a political action" may be used while a vote is going on. Note that one version of Business Pressure says it can only be used while during a political action, while the other does not; the first version is correct, and both should be played that way. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu) | These opinions are mine and http://www.math.scarolina.edu/~sjohnson | are subject to card text. [ quoted text not captured ]