rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Jon: Q: Sabbat: Genevieve

17 messages from 10 participants · 31 October 1996 – 16 November 1996
original thread on Google Groups

L. Scott Johnson

Genevieve 10 Capacity Gangrel Antitribu ANI FOR PRO dom aus Sabbat Priscus: Genevieve gets one additional vote during each political action. Question: Des this extra vote apply to 1) the Prisci sub-vote 2) the number of votes the Prisci-continuum get 3) the main vote (independent of which way the Prisci votes go) ? -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | I don't suffer from insanity. http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | I enjoy every minute of it. Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |

Jon Wilkie

In article <55aivm$8...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) wrote: > Genevieve 10 Capacity Gangrel Antitribu > ANI FOR PRO dom aus > Sabbat Priscus: Genevieve gets one additional vote during each > political action. > > Question: Des this extra vote apply to > > 1) the Prisci sub-vote The Prisci may only vote in the Prisci vote, so she would have it for the sub-vote only. ------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Wilkie Wot...@aol.com a.k.a."Scalpel" Customer Service, Wizards of the Coast "This isn't going to have a happy ending" -Detective Somerset, Se7en -------------------------------------------------------------

Steven Bucy

Jon Wilkie <Wot...@aol.com> wrote in article <WotCCST-1311...@w11-63.wizards.com>... > In article <55aivm$8...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. > Scott Johnson) wrote: > > Genevieve 10 Capacity Gangrel Antitribu > > ANI FOR PRO dom aus > > Sabbat Priscus: Genevieve gets one additional vote during each > > political action. > > > > Question: Des this extra vote apply to > > > > 1) the Prisci sub-vote > > The Prisci may only vote in the Prisci vote, so she would have it for the > sub-vote only. Hmmm. Prisci get together and cast their votes to determine who gets three additional votes in the main vote, but no particular Priscus casts these three votes in the main vote. These three votes are just added. Hmmm. So the Prisci don't actually vote in the main vote. I guess I can see how this works... -- Steve Bucy I'd be better off undead... "Hmmm. I notice the number of conditional phrases in there... _seems_ to indicate a weakness, _may_ be vulnerable in theory." - G'Kar

Steven Bucy

Jon Wilkie <Wot...@aol.com> wrote in article <WotCCST-1311...@w11-63.wizards.com>... > In article <55aivm$8...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. > Scott Johnson) wrote: > > Genevieve 10 Capacity Gangrel Antitribu > > ANI FOR PRO dom aus > > Sabbat Priscus: Genevieve gets one additional vote during each > > political action. > > > > Question: Des this extra vote apply to > > > > 1) the Prisci sub-vote > > The Prisci may only vote in the Prisci vote, so she would have it for the > sub-vote only. Jon are you sure this is correct? The wording on Genevieve says that see gets one additional vote during _each_ political action. Gratiano states specifically that he gets one extra vote during the Prisci vote. Either Genevieve was really poorly worded, or you making errata for her. As the card is worded however this ruling doesn't make any sense. [ quoted text not captured ]

Justin Fang

In article <WotCCST-1311...@w11-63.wizards.com>, Jon Wilkie <Wot...@aol.com> wrote: >In article <55aivm$8...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. >Scott Johnson) wrote: >> Genevieve 10 Capacity Gangrel Antitribu >> ANI FOR PRO dom aus >> Sabbat Priscus: Genevieve gets one additional vote during each >> political action. >The Prisci may only vote in the Prisci vote, so she would have it for the >sub-vote only. Wait, does this mean that if a Priscus gains votes with, say, Surprise Influence, that those extra votes can only be used in the Prisci sub-vote? This seems rather odd to me. -- Justin Fang (jus...@ugcs.caltech.edu) This space intentionally left blank.

L. Scott Johnson

Wot...@aol.com (Jon Wilkie) writes: >In article <55aivm$8...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. >Scott Johnson) wrote: >> Genevieve 10 Capacity Gangrel Antitribu >> Sabbat Priscus: Genevieve gets one additional vote during each >> political action. >> >> Question: Des this extra vote apply to >> 1) the Prisci sub-vote >The Prisci may only vote in the Prisci vote, so she would have it for the >sub-vote only. Uh-huh. Folow-up questions: 1) Why does Gratiano's ability (which matches what you say is Genevieve's ability) use a template that is completely different (and clearer)? 2) No Prisci can play Surprise Influence to affect the main vote? 3) If Genevieve is given a title (Bishop, Cardinal) then where will her "additional vote during each political action" be applied? -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Experience is something you http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | get just after you need it. [ quoted text not captured ]

Karl Hoipkemeier

In article <01bbd1bb$170df1e0$9c166bc7@Tom>, tb...@lainet.com says... > >Jon Wilkie <Wot...@aol.com> wrote in article ><WotCCST-1311...@w11-63.wizards.com>... >> In article <55aivm$8...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu >(L. >> Scott Johnson) wrote: >> > Genevieve 10 Capacity Gangrel Antitribu >> > ANI FOR PRO dom aus >> > Sabbat Priscus: Genevieve gets one additional vote during each >> > political action. >> > >> > Question: Des this extra vote apply to >> > >> > 1) the Prisci sub-vote >> >> The Prisci may only vote in the Prisci vote, so she would have it for the >> sub-vote only. > >Hmmm. Prisci get together and cast their votes to determine who gets three >additional votes in the main vote, but no particular Priscus casts these >three votes in the main vote. These three votes are just added. Hmmm. So >the Prisci don't actually vote in the main vote. I guess I can see how this >works... > >-- >Steve Bucy I think that Genevieve's vote applies to the main vote, since there is another vampire card that states that his vote applies to the Prisci vote. Hop

rag...@ugcs.caltech.edu

In article <56e293$f...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, Justin Fang <jus...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote: >In article <WotCCST-1311...@w11-63.wizards.com>, >Jon Wilkie <Wot...@aol.com> wrote: >>In article <55aivm$8...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. >>Scott Johnson) wrote: >>> Genevieve 10 Capacity Gangrel Antitribu >>> ANI FOR PRO dom aus >>> Sabbat Priscus: Genevieve gets one additional vote during each >>> political action. > >>The Prisci may only vote in the Prisci vote, so she would have it for the >>sub-vote only. > >Wait, does this mean that if a Priscus gains votes with, say, Surprise >Influence, that those extra votes can only be used in the Prisci sub-vote? >This seems rather odd to me. Furthermore, under this ruling what differentiates her power from Gratiano's? Wow... Under this ruling, she sucks even more than she did before... -- Robert Granat

L. Scott Johnson

Wot...@aol.com (Jon Wilkie) writes: >In article <55aivm$8...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. >Scott Johnson) wrote: >> Genevieve 10 Capacity Gangrel Antitribu >> Sabbat Priscus: Genevieve gets one additional vote during each >> political action. >> >> Question: Des this extra vote apply to >> >> 1) the Prisci sub-vote >The Prisci may only vote in the Prisci vote, so she would have it for the >sub-vote only. So, since the Prisci don't vote in the Main vote, then their three votes would still be cast (assuming the Prisci don't tie) even if a Closed Session [DarkSov] had been played (since casting the Prisci group vote isn't a violation of the "Non-Camarilla vampires cannot vote on the current political action" clause - since no Priscus vampire is actually voting on anything but the Prisci vote) [ quoted text not captured ]

David Hyatt

sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) writes: >Wot...@aol.com (Jon Wilkie) writes: >>In article <55aivm$8...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. >>Scott Johnson) wrote: >>> Genevieve 10 Capacity Gangrel Antitribu >>> Sabbat Priscus: Genevieve gets one additional vote during each >>> political action. >>> >>> Question: Des this extra vote apply to >>> >>> 1) the Prisci sub-vote >>The Prisci may only vote in the Prisci vote, so she would have it for the >>sub-vote only. I had assumed that her vote actually applied to the main vote. My support for this position comes from the fact that there is another Sabbat vampire (Gratiano?) whose card text says that he gets an additional vote in the Prisci vote. With the interpretation of Genevieve given above, the two vampires would have the same ability. So why word it differently? I strongly believe that Genevieve's extra vote actually applies during the main vote, despite the fact that she is a Priscus. Dave (d-h...@cs.uiuc.edu)

L. Scott Johnson

Algustas <arob...@gladstone.uoregon.edu> writes: >> Wot...@aol.com (Jon Wilkie) writes: >> >> Sabbat Priscus: Genevieve gets one additional vote during each >> >> political action. >> >The Prisci may only vote in the Prisci vote, so she would have it for the >> >sub-vote only. >> > Brings up another question too. Can Methuselahs throw PA cards >for extra votes during the Prisci sub-vote? (Think about this one before >you answer...) The Sabbat rules addendum sheet says that only the Prisci themselves may vote in the Psci sub-vote. This denies the possibility of burning the Edge, or burning PAs for votes during that sub-vote. (It also restricts the Prisci to only using their Priscus-title-vote in the sub vote, so they couldn't use Surprise Influence or what not to influence the Prisci vote, either). Rule addendum sheet, section "The Prisci Vote": When a vote occurs, players who control one or more Prisci participate in a separate sub-vote. Each Priscus provides one vote for this sub-vote, and that vote must be cast either for or against the main vote. Any Priscus may still abstain. Only these Priscus votes may be used in this sub-vote. Whichever side wins the sub-vote gains 3 votes in the main vote. [ quoted text not captured ]

Algustas

Hi Methuselahs, On 14 Nov 1996, L. Scott Johnson wrote: > Wot...@aol.com (Jon Wilkie) writes: > >> Genevieve 10 Capacity Gangrel Antitribu > >> Sabbat Priscus: Genevieve gets one additional vote during each > >> political action. > >> > >> Question: Des this extra vote apply to > >> 1) the Prisci sub-vote > > >The Prisci may only vote in the Prisci vote, so she would have it for the > >sub-vote only. > > Uh-huh. > > Folow-up questions: > > 1) Why does Gratiano's ability (which matches what you say is Genevieve's > ability) use a template that is completely different (and clearer)? > > 2) No Prisci can play Surprise Influence to affect the main vote? > > 3) If Genevieve is given a title (Bishop, Cardinal) then where will her > "additional vote during each political action" be applied? > Brings up another question too. Can Methuselahs throw PA cards for extra votes during the Prisci sub-vote? (Think about this one before you answer...) Algustas *****A political career brings out the basest qualities in human nature.***** Lord Bryce

Jon Wilkie

In article <56f60p$5...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) wrote: > 2) No Prisci can play Surprise Influence to affect the main vote? > > 3) If Genevieve is given a title (Bishop, Cardinal) then where will her > "additional vote during each political action" be applied? Noted for the next Rules Meeting. [ quoted text not captured ]

Jon Wilkie

In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.961114...@gladstone.uoregon.edu>, Algustas <arob...@gladstone.uoregon.edu> wrote: > Brings up another question too. Can Methuselahs throw PA cards > for extra votes during the Prisci sub-vote? (Think about this one before > you answer...) Noted for the next Rules Meeting. [ quoted text not captured ]

Jon Wilkie

In article <01bbd1be$03302960$9c166bc7@Tom>, "Steven Bucy" <tb...@lainet.com> wrote: > Jon are you sure this is correct? The wording on Genevieve says that see > gets one additional vote during _each_ political action. Gratiano states > specifically that he gets one extra vote during the Prisci vote. Either > Genevieve was really poorly worded, or you making errata for her. As the > card is worded however this ruling doesn't make any sense. Noted for the next Rules Meeting. [ quoted text not captured ]

J. Andrew Lipscomb

In article <56fmpe$c...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) wrote: > Wot...@aol.com (Jon Wilkie) writes: > >In article <55aivm$8...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. > >Scott Johnson) wrote: > >> Genevieve 10 Capacity Gangrel Antitribu > >> Sabbat Priscus: Genevieve gets one additional vote during each > >> political action. > >> > >> Question: Des this extra vote apply to > >> > >> 1) the Prisci sub-vote > > >The Prisci may only vote in the Prisci vote, so she would have it for the > >sub-vote only. > > So, since the Prisci don't vote in the Main vote, then their three votes > would still be cast (assuming the Prisci don't tie) even if a Closed > Session [DarkSov] had been played (since casting the Prisci group vote > isn't a violation of the "Non-Camarilla vampires cannot vote on the > current political action" clause - since no Priscus vampire is actually > voting on anything but the Prisci vote) This is reductio ad absurdum, right? The way I see it, Genevieve has one vote on each side (as opposed to Gratiano, who is a double Priscus), and the Prisci cannot vote in Closed Session. J. Andrew Lipscomb <ew...@chattanooga.net, them...@delphi.com> PGP keys by request

Nathan Harada

> Jon Wilkie wrote: > > In article <55aivm$8...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. > Scott Johnson) wrote: > > Genevieve 10 Capacity Gangrel Antitribu > > ANI FOR PRO dom aus > > Sabbat Priscus: Genevieve gets one additional vote during each > > political action. > > > > Question: Des this extra vote apply to > > > > 1) the Prisci sub-vote > > The Prisci may only vote in the Prisci vote, so she would have it for the > sub-vote only. Let's just ignore this ruling. It doesn't make any sense given wordings on Genevieve and Gratiano; it makes Genevieve pay 2 1/2 points for the exact same power Gratiano pays 1 point for; it doesn't clear up the Priscus vote s***. My take on Genevieve: She gets her +1 vote on all PA's, and the Priscus sub-vote. (This only applies if she remains Priscus. Gratiano can become a Cardinal and still have one Priscus vote, but Genevieve cannot. My take on the Priscus Sub-Vote: The Prisci vote, then their collective three votes are added to the main vote. Prisci can be forced to abstain from voting in the Priscus vote, but the Priscus votes do not stem from any one vampire. Kindred Coercion on a Priscus only applies to the Priscus vote. Surprise Influence and Bewitching Oration go directly to the main vote. -Nathan Harada