rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Sect/Clan status Question

17 messages from 8 participants · 22 June 2001 – 23 June 2001
original thread on Google Groups

PeterM

I'm guessing it's been covered elsewhere but... if a vampire changes sect, do they still retain their clan and ability to play cards requiring that clan? here's the example I'm thinking of playing a setite vote deck based around khay'tall, nefertiti and aabt kindred plus murat, makarios and suhliah. let's say i successfully call invitation accepted Called by any vampire at +1 stealth. If this referendum is successful, all Followers of Set are considered Camarilla vampires for the rest of the game. All options available to Camarilla clans are now open to the Followers of Set. so my vamps are still setites, and can play corruptions and so on correct? but they can now become princes, play 2nd trad, 5th trad and so on.... i just want to be sure before i play the deck.....

James Coupe

In message <5802b3d0.01062...@posting.google.com>, PeterM <pete...@icqmail.com> writes >I'm guessing it's been covered elsewhere but... >if a vampire changes sect, do they still retain their clan and ability >to play cards requiring that clan? If you have an affect that changes your clan, your change to that clan and the relevant sect. If you have an affect that changes your sect, you change sect but remain a member of your clan. If you have a clan changer (e.g. Derange) and a sect changer (e.g. Writ), you change clan as per the changer and change sect as per that changer. >let's say i successfully call invitation accepted >Called by any vampire at +1 stealth. If this referendum is successful, >all Followers of Set are considered Camarilla vampires for the rest of >the game. All options available to Camarilla clans are now open to the >Followers of Set. > >so my vamps are still setites Yes. The Followers of Set are considered to be Camarilla vampires. They are still, however, Camarilla vampires. >, and can play corruptions and so on >correct? Yup. >but they can now become princes, play 2nd trad, 5th trad and so on.... >i just want to be sure before i play the deck..... Yup. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D "You reinstall Dial-Up Networking. The Elf screams and becomes EBD690ECD7A1F an icon. *** CONGRATULATIONS! *** You completed the BT Internet B457CA213D7E6 Helpdesk training course in 15 out of a possible 9000 moves." 68C3695D623D5D

Gomi no Sensei

In article <5802b3d0.01062...@posting.google.com>, PeterM <pete...@icqmail.com> wrote: >I'm guessing it's been covered elsewhere but... >if a vampire changes sect, do they still retain their clan and ability >to play cards requiring that clan? Yes. Sect and clan are independent items. Changing clan to a clan traditionally allied to a given sect changes your sect membership, but changing your sect doesn't change your clan. I wish I could draw a text Venn diagram. Bah. >here's the example >I'm thinking of playing a setite vote deck based around khay'tall, >nefertiti and aabt kindred plus murat, makarios and suhliah. Why bother with Makarios? For that kind of pool, you really want a prince. I guess he can Seize, and he does have superior snakey. >let's say i successfully call invitation accepted >Called by any vampire at +1 stealth. If this referendum is successful, >all Followers of Set are considered Camarilla vampires for the rest of >the game. All options available to Camarilla clans are now open to the >Followers of Set. > >so my vamps are still setites, and can play corruptions and so on >correct? >but they can now become princes, play 2nd trad, 5th trad and so on.... >i just want to be sure before i play the deck..... If they were Setites before, they're Setites after. Invitation doesn't do a thing to change that. Any that said 'Independent' or 'Sabbat' in their text boxes, though, have that text ignored and are considered Camarilla. Note that there aren't any Sabbat Followers printed, though. Although I'd love to see Serpents of the Light in Bloodlines, they weren't mentioned in the press release. One can hope, though. But, yes, Camarilla Followers can Praxis Seize just like any other Camarilla vampire. Once Seized, they can play all the Princey cards plus any cards their disciplines let them play plus any clan cards appropriate to their clan (Followers of Set). gomi -- Yes, I believe but I'd rather not pray What I believe in I'd rather not say, baby

Flux

"PeterM" <pete...@icqmail.com> wrote in message news:5802b3d0.01062...@posting.google.com... > I'm guessing it's been covered elsewhere but... > if a vampire changes sect, do they still retain their clan and ability > to play cards requiring that clan? Yes. > here's the example > I'm thinking of playing a setite vote deck based around khay'tall, > nefertiti and aabt kindred plus murat, makarios and suhliah. > > let's say i successfully call invitation accepted > Called by any vampire at +1 stealth. If this referendum is successful, > all Followers of Set are considered Camarilla vampires for the rest of > the game. All options available to Camarilla clans are now open to the > Followers of Set. > > so my vamps are still setites, and can play corruptions and so on > correct? > but they can now become princes, play 2nd trad, 5th trad and so on.... > i just want to be sure before i play the deck..... Correct. From the rulesbook: "... if a vampire changes sects, his clan doesn't automatically change." [10.2] Flux

Peter Muto

> > if a vampire changes sect, do they still retain their clan and ability > > to play cards requiring that clan? > > Yes. > > > I'm thinking of playing a setite vote deck based around khay'tall, > > nefertiti and aabt kindred plus murat, makarios and suhliah. > > > > let's say i successfully call invitation accepted > > > > so my vamps are still setites, and can play corruptions and so on > > correct? > > but they can now become princes, play 2nd trad, 5th trad and so on.... > > i just want to be sure before i play the deck..... > > Correct. From the rulesbook: > "... if a vampire changes sects, his clan doesn't automatically change." > [10.2] > another question.... if i put heart of darkness say on suhlaih....and then daring dawn..... Vampires cannot block this action. This vampire takes 2 aggravated damage (not preventable) after the action is complete. (S) As above, but this acting vampire takes 1 aggravated damage. heart of darkness Put this card on the acting vampire. Aggravated damage taken by this vampire is changed to normal damage. Any minion may burn this card as a (D) action. (S) As above, and prevent 1 damage to the vampire each combat. so by this, she takes the 1 agg, then it's converted to 1 normal, so she doesn't goto torpor right? there's no mention of heart of darknes only usable in combat that works doesn't it?

Peter Muto

> > if a vampire changes sect, do they still retain their clan and ability > > to play cards requiring that clan? > > Yes. > > > I'm thinking of playing a setite vote deck based around khay'tall, > > nefertiti and aabt kindred plus murat, makarios and suhliah. > > > > let's say i successfully call invitation accepted > > > > so my vamps are still setites, and can play corruptions and so on > > correct? > > but they can now become princes, play 2nd trad, 5th trad and so on.... > > i just want to be sure before i play the deck..... > > Correct. From the rulesbook: > "... if a vampire changes sects, his clan doesn't automatically change." > [10.2] > another question.... [ quoted text not captured ]

Gomi no Sensei

In article <3B32A6D2...@home.com>, Peter Muto <beyondgo...@home.com> wrote: >another question.... >if i put heart of darkness say on suhlaih....and then >daring dawn..... >Vampires cannot block this action. This vampire takes 2 aggravated damage >(not preventable) after the action is complete. (S) As above, but this >acting vampire takes 1 aggravated damage. >heart of darkness >Put this card on the acting vampire. Aggravated damage taken by this vampire >is changed to normal damage. Any minion may burn this card as a (D) action. >(S) As above, and prevent 1 damage to the vampire each combat. >so by this, she takes the 1 agg, then it's converted to 1 normal, so she >doesn't goto torpor right? there's no mention of heart of darknes only >usable in combat > >that works doesn't it? Sure does. Nice trick for Aabt Kindred, who all come with ser/for anyhow. Heart of Darkness then Force of Will (okay, that'll still knock them into torpor as they'll be taking 2 normal damage with 1 blood left, as they've spent 2 on Heart and 1 on Force, but still), once you control Nefertiti (or they can't bleed). Of course, they could all get Hearts while you're waiting for Nefertiti to come out, since that's undirected. Also good with Sunrise Service, although Serpentis is in shorter supply among the Sabbat. Go Serpents of the Light! [ quoted text not captured ]

James Coupe

In message <3B32A7CB...@home.com>, Peter Muto <beyondgo...@home.com> writes >so by this, she takes the 1 agg, then it's converted to 1 normal, so she >doesn't goto torpor right? there's no mention of heart of darknes only >usable in combat > >that works doesn't it? Heart of Darkness works on all damage taken by the vampire, combat or no combat. [ quoted text not captured ]

Peter Muto

> > >so by this, she takes the 1 agg, then it's converted to 1 normal, so she > >doesn't goto torpor right? there's no mention of heart of darknes only > >usable in combat > > > >that works doesn't it? > > Heart of Darkness works on all damage taken by the vampire, combat or no > combat. thanks all sorry about the double post.

Potato

pete...@icqmail.com (PeterM) wrote in message news:<5802b3d0.01062...@posting.google.com>... > I'm guessing it's been covered elsewhere but... > if a vampire changes sect, do they still retain their clan and ability > to play cards requiring that clan? Going back to the original posting, another question in a similar vein.. If say a Prince is Deranged, then he becomes a !Malk (which in turn makes him Sabbat i believe) Am i right in assuming he cannot use his Camarilla title to vote with? And what happens when he regains Camarilla status by removing the Derange - does he also regain his former title? Help appreciated :)

hamdamcwa

> Correct. From the rulesbook: > "... if a vampire changes sects, his clan doesn't automatically change." > [10.2] How does this effect clans where there are sect equivalents? e.g. Gangrel Antitribu tolls up with a Writ of Acceptance. Does he become a Gangrel, or a Camerilla Gangrel Antitribu? This is corner case, but it is useful for Connie Boons, use of Gangrel Revels, and playing cards like Shackles of Enkidu, Ecoterrorists, etc. I have always assumed that in this example, the !Gangrel becomes a Gangrel, the Antitribu just denoting the membership of the Sabbat, which is countered with the Writ. With Clan Impersonation and Derange, does the vampire automaitically join the new clan's sect? I have always assumed they do, but assuption is dangerous in this game! DH

LSJ

[ quoted text not captured ] Yes. See section 10 of the rulebook. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ

hamdamcwa wrote: > > > Correct. From the rulesbook: > > "... if a vampire changes sects, his clan doesn't automatically change." > > [10.2] > > How does this effect clans where there are sect equivalents? Moot, since there are no "sect equivalents". > e.g. Gangrel Antitribu tolls up with a Writ of Acceptance. Does he > become a Gangrel, or a Camerilla Gangrel Antitribu? The latter. Writ says nothing about changing his clan. > With Clan Impersonation and Derange, does the vampire automaitically > join the new clan's sect? I have always assumed they do, but assuption > is dangerous in this game! No assumption needed. See section 10 of the rules. [ quoted text not captured ]

Potato

> If say a Prince is Deranged, then he becomes a !Malk (which in turn > > makes him Sabbat i believe) Am i right in assuming he cannot use his > > Camarilla title to vote with? And what happens when he regains > > Camarilla status by removing the Derange - does he also regain his > > former title? > Yes. See section 10 of the rulebook. When you said 塑es' - did you really mean 'No, see section 10' ? I did check section 10 before I originally posted, but I didn't think it answered my query about votes Sorry to hassle, but can somebody help me break this down a bit? Example: Queen Anne (Ventrue Prince) is Deranged and becomes a !Malk. So, would Anne now be a Camarilla !Malk who retains her Prince title and can continue to vote using it? Is this correct? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick still :/ Cheers Chris F

Gomi no Sensei

In article <c96f71.010622...@posting.google.com>, Potato <potato...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> If say a Prince is Deranged, then he becomes a !Malk (which in turn >> > makes him Sabbat i believe) Am i right in assuming he cannot use his >> > Camarilla title to vote with? And what happens when he regains >> > Camarilla status by removing the Derange - does he also regain his >> > former title? > >> Yes. See section 10 of the rulebook. > >When you said 塑es' - did you really mean 'No, see section 10' ? > >I did check section 10 before I originally posted, but I didn't think >it answered my query about votes > >Sorry to hassle, but can somebody help me break this down a bit? >Example: Queen Anne (Ventrue Prince) is Deranged and becomes a !Malk. >So, would Anne now be a Camarilla !Malk who retains her Prince title >and can continue to vote using it? Deranged vampires become Sabbat Malkavian Antitribu, unless they have a Writ of Acceptance, in which case they become Camarilla Malkavian Antitribu. Sabbat vampires cannot be Princes, therefore Queen Anne is not a Prince while Deranged (barring Writ). She is not a Prince in any respect (unable to call Prince/Justicar votes, unable to use Traditions, unaffected by special abilities affecting Princes), and if another vampire becomes Prince of London, she immediately yields the title. In programming terms, she retains a 'stub' of the title while Deranged, and that stub can return to full functionality once she's no longer Deranged, but if another vampire seizes her title while she's Deranged, even the stub falls off. I hope this clears up any lingering questions you might have about Derange, but let me know if there are further gray areas. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ

potato...@hotmail.com (Potato) wrote: >> If say a Prince is Deranged, then he becomes a !Malk (which in turn >> > makes him Sabbat i believe) Am i right in assuming he cannot use his >> > Camarilla title to vote with? And what happens when he regains >> > Camarilla status by removing the Derange - does he also regain his >> > former title? > >> Yes. See section 10 of the rulebook. > >When you said 塑es' - did you really mean 'No, see section 10' ? No. The answers to both of the above questions ("am I right...?" and "does he regain...?") are "yes", per section 10. >I did check section 10 before I originally posted, but I didn't think >it answered my query about votes When he loses the benefit of his title, he loses the ability to cast the votes associated with it. >Sorry to hassle, but can somebody help me break this down a bit? >Example: Queen Anne (Ventrue Prince) is Deranged and becomes a !Malk. >So, would Anne now be a Camarilla !Malk who retains her Prince title >and can continue to vote using it? No. She loses the benefit of the title for as long as she is Sabbat. [ quoted text not captured ]

Potato

Thanks for persisting with me on this one. Much appreciated Chris F