(LSJ) Clan Impersonation vs Scarce

Hello, Here's today's question : Yavu Matebo is in play. He plays Clan Impersonation to Gangrel. For some reason (Banishment, his own special, ..) he goes back in the uncontrolled region. What clan should I check for the Scarce penalty when influencing him out into the game ? I'd say Nagaraja, since he isn't in play when the Scarce penalty is paid ( http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/07c63c82b2fd777d , can't decide to first have vampires enter contest, and then pay for the Scarce penalty), therefore cards on him aren't in play, including the Gangrel Clan Impersonation. ~~ Clan Impersonation Cardtype: Action Cost: 2 blood +1 stealth action. Choose a clan and put this card on the acting vampire. This vampire is considered to be of the chosen clan instead of his or her original clan (if any). This vampire can burn this card as an action. (Rulebook) Scarce: When a Methuselah moves a scarce vampire from her uncontrolled region to her ready region during her influence phase, she must burn 3 pool for every other vampire of the same clan already in play.

floppyzedolfin wrote: > Yavu Matebo is in play. He plays Clan Impersonation to Gangrel. For > some reason (Banishment, his own special, ..) he goes back in the > uncontrolled region. > What clan should I check for the Scarce penalty when influencing him > out into the game ? Gangrel. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/75a176657accf63a

[ quoted text not captured ] > Gangrel.http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/75a1... Just checking things here : Are these points correct ? Are some inaccurate ? - Cards on a vampire only have effect when they are in play - Cards on a vampire who isn't in play are not in play* - When checking for a Scarce penalty to pay, the Scarce vampire is not in play. *: as usual, "unless explicit cardtext", such as Descent into Darkness', Brainwash's, and so on.

floppyzedolfin wrote: > On Jul 17, 2:58 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> floppyzedolfin wrote: >>> Yavu Matebo is in play. He plays Clan Impersonation to Gangrel. For >>> some reason (Banishment, his own special, ..) he goes back in the >>> uncontrolled region. >>> What clan should I check for the Scarce penalty when influencing him >>> out into the game ? >> Gangrel.http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/75a1... > > Just checking things here : Are these points correct ? Are some > inaccurate ? > - Cards on a vampire only have effect when they are in play > - Cards on a vampire who isn't in play are not in play* > - When checking for a Scarce penalty to pay, the Scarce vampire is not > in play. The third point is incorrect, per the link given. Scarce: When a Methuselah moves a scarce vampire from her uncontrolled region to her ready region during her influence phase, she must burn 3 pool for every other vampire of the same clan already in play. When the Methuselah moves the scarce vampire to her ready region, the vampire enters play. And she must burn 3 pool for every other vampire of the same clan already in play. The rule is not "pay penalty in order to move the vampire to the ready region".

On 17 juil, 17:00, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > When the Methuselah moves the scarce vampire to her ready region, the vampire > enters play. And she must burn 3 pool for every other vampire of the same clan > already in play. I feel puzzled about this. Am I correct to read it as "Scarce penalty applies when the incoming vampire _is_ in play" (which seems to be the negation of my third point) ? In the case of a copy of an already in play Scarce vampire, we know that one has to pay for the Scarceness, including the copy that'll be contested. (clearly put, if there already is one Salubri in play, and I contest him, my salubri makes me burn 3 extra pool). Now, the problem is that this makes me think things happen in this order (please, tell me if it's wrong) : 1/ influence out 2/ do stuff "when [...] enters play" (anarch convert) 3/ put in play 4/ pay scarceness (which could be at the same time as 3/, but not before, per your explanations) 5/ resolve contests by removing from the game temporarly (which could be at the same time as 3/, but not before, per your explanations) And that's precisely where Sonja Blue kicks in. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/46d91f309a98a642 [When contesting Sonja Blue, the new copy provides 4 pool (for being played), then the old copy is removed from the game (for leaving play to be contested, by its own card text), and the new copy remains face down, out-of-play (it hasn't yet been in play), ready to be turned face up during her next untap phase, when the contest is won.] So, if Sonja contests, she has not yet been in play. This means 5/ in the chronological list above happens before 3/. Is there a reason for Sonja gettnig contested striclty before entering play, whereas the Scarceness is triggered after (or perhaps "as", but not "before", per the reading of the link given) entering play ?

On Jul 17, 10:45 am, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 17 juil, 17:00, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > > When the Methuselah moves the scarce vampire to her ready region, the vampire > > enters play. And she must burn 3 pool for every other vampire of the same clan > > already in play. > > I feel puzzled about this. Am I correct to read it as "Scarce penalty > applies when the incoming vampire _is_ in play" (which seems to be the > negation of my third point) ? > > In the case of a copy of an already in play Scarce vampire, we know > that one has to pay for the Scarceness, including the copy that'll be > contested. > (clearly put, if there already is one Salubri in play, and I contest > him, my salubri makes me burn 3 extra pool). > > Now, the problem is that this makes me think things happen in this > order (please, tell me if it's wrong) : > 1/ influence out > 2/ do stuff "when [...] enters play" (anarch convert) > 3/ put in play > 4/ pay scarceness (which could be at the same time as 3/, but not > before, per your explanations) > 5/ resolve contests by removing from the game temporarly (which could > be at the same time as 3/, but not before, per your explanations) > > And that's precisely where Sonja Blue kicks in.http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/46d9... > [When contesting Sonja Blue, the new copy provides 4 pool (for being > played), then the old copy is removed from the game (for leaving play > to be contested, by its own card text), and the new copy remains face > down, out-of-play (it hasn't yet been in play), ready to be turned > face up during her next untap phase, when the contest is won.] > > So, if Sonja contests, she has not yet been in play. This means 5/ in > the chronological list above happens before 3/. > > Is there a reason for Sonja gettnig contested striclty before entering > play, whereas the Scarceness is triggered after (or perhaps "as", but > not "before", per the reading of the link given) entering play ? I don't know the official rule, but when you contest you enter play face down and out-of-play (you enter play out-of-play, that's kinda funny), but you still do when X enters play effects (Sonja's ability, pay for Scarce). Later, ~Rehlow

Rehlow wrote: > I don't know the official rule, but when you contest you enter play > face down and out-of-play (you enter play out-of-play, that's kinda > funny), but you still do when X enters play effects (Sonja's ability, > pay for Scarce). That is the official rule.

On Jul 17, 7:47 am, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello, > Here's today's question : > > Yavu Matebo is in play. He plays Clan Impersonation to Gangrel. For > some reason (Banishment, his own special, ..) he goes back in the > uncontrolled region. > What clan should I check for the Scarce penalty when influencing him > out into the game ? > > I'd say Nagaraja, since he isn't in play when the Scarce penalty is > paid (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/07c6... > , can't decide to first have vampires enter contest, and then pay for > the Scarce penalty), therefore cards on him aren't in play, including > the Gangrel Clan Impersonation. > > ~~ > > Clan Impersonation > Cardtype: Action > Cost: 2 blood > +1 stealth action. > Choose a clan and put this card on the acting vampire. This vampire is > considered to be of the chosen clan instead of his or her original > clan (if any). This vampire can burn this card as an action. > > (Rulebook) > Scarce: When a Methuselah moves a scarce vampire from her uncontrolled > region to her ready region during her influence phase, she must burn 3 > pool for every other vampire of the same clan already in play. It would be Gangrel and he still would be scarce so you would pay 3 pool for every other Gangrel in play. Ouch!