thoughts betrayed (LSJ)

o.k., here's the question. thoughts betrayed - opposing minions cannot use cards until after combat. does this mean only from that point on, or does it also exclude the use of cards already in play? i.e. could i still use my equipment or cards such as dog pack. also, what if flesh of marble was played before thoughts betrayed. would thoughts betrayed cancel the effect of that card? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Conor S. Key I've seen things that you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched sea beams glitter in the dark near the ten-houser gates. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.... Time to die. <Blade Runner>

tirn...@mindspring.com (I/O) writes: >o.k., here's the question. thoughts betrayed - opposing minions >cannot use cards until after combat. does this mean only from that >point on, or does it also exclude the use of cards already in play? >i.e. could i still use my equipment or cards such as dog pack. It only prevents cards from being played - the opposing minion could still make full use of equipment/retainers/Elysiums, etc. >also, what if flesh of marble was played before thoughts betrayed. >would thoughts betrayed cancel the effect of that card? Flesh of Marble cannot be played before TB. TB is played "as combat is entered", flesh is played after that point (within combat). -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | * - Tribble http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | (-*-) - Darth Tribble in his Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | TIE Fighter

I/O (tirn...@mindspring.com) wrote: : o.k., here's the question. thoughts betrayed - opposing minions : cannot use cards until after combat. does this mean only from that : point on, or does it also exclude the use of cards already in play? : i.e. could i still use my equipment or cards such as dog pack. It was ruled that cards already in play could be used. You simply may not play cards from your hand after a superior TB. : also, what if flesh of marble was played before thoughts betrayed. : would thoughts betrayed cancel the effect of that card? It couldn't be. TB is played at the last moment before combat begins (or the first moment after combat is entered -- take your pick), and thus is played AFTER all modifiers, but BEFORE all combat cards. FoM would HAVE to be played AFTER a TB, sorry to say. -spongy

>o.k., here's the question. thoughts betrayed - opposing minions >cannot use cards until after combat. does this mean only from that >point on, or does it also exclude the use of cards already in play? >i.e. could i still use my equipment or cards such as dog pack. The card have a errata that says that cards may not be played OUT during combat. That means that you could still use your equipment/retainers as normal. >also, what if flesh of marble was played before thoughts betrayed. >would thoughts betrayed cancel the effect of that card? Since Thoughts Betrayed is a combat card it must be played during combat instead of "before combat begins". "Before combat begins" is still effective anyway becouse Thoughts betrayed goes before all other COMBAT cards including flesh of Marble. You could not cancel the acting minions attempt to use stealth modifiers or the blocking minon to use obedience by the way.

The only other question is wheather can you play a disguised or concealed weapon before a thoughts betrayed.

joh...@hp.com hath spake thusly: >The only other question is wheather can you play a disguised or >concealed weapon before a thoughts betrayed. You may not play any combat cards while under the superior effects of a Thoughts Betrayed. You may use any card currently on the table, but no combat card may come out of your hand onto the soon to be hosed vamp. Stu

In article <32D37F...@hp.com>, joh...@hp.com wrote: > > The only other question is wheather can you play a disguised or > concealed weapon before a thoughts betrayed. No. Both Concealed Weapon and Disguised Weapon are combat cards, so are only playable from within combat. TB beats both because it is a combat cards that has the explicit card text making played "as combat is entered". No other combat card can be played before TB. --- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | * - Tribble http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | (-*-) - Darth Tribble in his Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | TIE Fighter -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet

On Fri, 17 Jan 1997, James Coupe wrote: [Thoughts Betrayed + Disguised Weapon text snipped] > Before combat begins means just after you've both declared that you're > not upping stealth and intercept any more and combat has just begun > Before range is chosen means before you have chosen range by declaring > maneuvers And this is actually a seperate phase... > I don't see any reason why you couldn't play a Disguised Weapon before > the Thoughts Betrayed since they both happen during a combat and playing > a Disguised Weapon at the start of the round *is* before range is > chosen. ... meaning that you can't play Disguised Weapon if someone plays Thoughts Betrayed, because they play Thoughts Betrayed before even the pre-range phase. [snip] > So, the simple answer to your question is: > Yes, you can Disguised Weapon before Thoughts Betrayed (well, I think so > anyway) Sorry. Not quite right. Make it easy. Ban TB. :) @#$ The Corrupter $#@ @#$ Adrian Lee Sullivan $#@ Truth is as @#$ Game Theory - Coffee - Opinion - Hedonism $#@ subjective as @#$ <http:cslab.uwlax.edu/~sulli_al/jyhad> $#@ Reality ... GAT/CS/WS C(+++) USX+ P++ N++ PS++@ PE@ b++(+++) X+++ R+++* r+ z++**?

2 blood Dominate Combat Only usable before combat begins. Opposing minion takes an additional 1 damage in the first round of combat during strike resolution. (S) Only usable before combat begins. Opposing minion cannot use any cards until after combat. Dave Roach and Pete Burges Common Text of Disguised Weapon: Disguised Weapon Obfuscate Combat Only usable before range is chosen. Equip this vampire with a weapon card from your hand (and pay cost to equip). (M) As above, but only usable when choosing a strike. Anson Maddocks Common Before combat begins means just after you've both declared that you're not upping stealth and intercept any more and combat has just begun Before range is chosen means before you have chosen range by declaring maneuvers I don't see any reason why you couldn't play a Disguised Weapon before the Thoughts Betrayed since they both happen during a combat and playing a Disguised Weapon at the start of the round *is* before range is chosen. It's the same sort of thing with Blood to Water (from AH). You play that before Strike Resolution: Blood to Water 2 blood Thaumaturgy Combat Use before strike resolution. If the opposing minion is a vampire, he or she burns 3 blood before strike resolution; otherwise, he or she is burned. Not usable during the first round of combat. (S) As above, but if the opposing minion is a vampire, he or she burns 5 blood. Liz Danforth Common 2 However, it doesn't state directly before the strike is resolved, so you could play it at the start of the round, during the range or even after you've both declared strikes but before you've resolved them. So, the simple answer to your question is: Yes, you can Disguised Weapon before Thoughts Betrayed (well, I think so anyway) -- James Coupe.

James Coupe <Jus...@bgrace.demon.co.uk> writes: >Before combat begins means just after you've both declared that you're >not upping stealth and intercept any more and combat has just begun >Before range is chosen means before you have chosen range by declaring >maneuvers Yes to both. "Before combat begins" has been ruled to mean "as combat is entered". >I don't see any reason why you couldn't play a Disguised Weapon before >the Thoughts Betrayed since they both happen during a combat and playing >a Disguised Weapon at the start of the round *is* before range is >chosen. The reason is that you can't play combat cards before combat, and TB is played as the combat is enetred - before any other combat card can be played. (TB is granted special timing by its "before combat" wording.) >It's the same sort of thing with Blood to Water (from AH). You play >that before Strike Resolution: >However, it doesn't state directly before the strike is resolved, so you >could play it at the start of the round, during the range or even after >you've both declared strikes but before you've resolved them. Yes by card text, but this has been ruled to be playable only in the "before resolution" phase - that is, the space between declare strikes and resolve strikes. (and only if the round is at close range.) -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Freedom means choosing http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | your burden. Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | -- Hephzibah Menuhin