Internal Recursion Draft : Report Austin

6 Players attended the IR draft today with the intention of testing out the new proposed Internal Recusion rules. Those rules for those unfamiliar with them are (for X boosters): Min crypt size = X Min library size = 5 * X # of Recursions = 8 - X (Recursion is using a discard phase action to shuffle your ash heap into your library) We decided to play with 4 boosters due to store availability, and also to test lower limits of boosters for the proposed rule. We drafted 2x 3rd Edition, 1x Anarchs, and 1x KMW. So for those keeping score : Min crypt size = 4 Min library size = 20 # of recusions = 4 After 2 rounds the standings were: 1 Ethan Burrow 2GW, 5VP - !Malk/Assamite wall/swarm 1 Eric Leal 2 GW, 5 VP - !gang anarchs 3 Alex Gifford 2 VP - !Malk stealth bleed 4 Becca Adams 0 VP - Lasombra toolbox 4 Mike Leonard 0 VP - !Ven/!tor anarchs 4 Benito Hipolito 0 VP - !Brujah Bruise/Bleed Benito lost the toss and had to sit out the final. Ethan won the toss for 1st place, and the seating ended up being Mike -> Ethan -> Alex -> Becca -> Eric The final basically consisted of two 2 player games with me building up (The "Dead Zone" spot). I sat behind Alex knowing his deck would go balls forward and not be able to put up any resistance to my deck's tooling up. I played Con Boon at draftferior and named lasombra, of which my grandprey had 3, several times in the final. With my help, Alex never was able to oust Becca. Once I got out my hexaped, I lunged and got Alex. Mike valiantly fought off Eric, and lasted even after I ousted Becca. Eric finally managed to get Mike, but then conceded to my 6 minions, one with an Eternal Vigilance and Assault Rifle. Crypt [5 vampires] Capacity min: 3 max: 17average: 4.8 ------------------------------------------------------------ 1x Tariq, The Silent (ADV) 7cap AUS FOR OBF QUI cel Sabbat. Black Hand. Red List. Steal 1 blood as a ranged strike. Lose 4 capacity. Assamite:2 1x Stavros 7cap AUS OBF PRE dem Sabbat Priscus !Malkavian:4 1x Fabrizia Contreraz 4cap dem pot Sabbat Archbishop. Loses 2 votes if prey has no cam. !Malkavian:4 1x Jackie 3cap DEM !Malkavian:4 1x Lectora 3cap aus tha !Tremere /* Tariq was the only assamite I saw, and I needed one to use all the WoKR and Black Sunrises I drafted. Lectora is simply to enable Hexaped. 2 titled vampires so I can put Eternal Vigilance in play with reasonable certainty. They ended up being !Malk so I drafted what I could to support them. */ Library [23 cards] ------------------------------------------------------------ Action [4] 1x Eternal Vigilance 1x Kindred Spirits 2x Web of Knives Recruit /* Eternal Vigilance was my first pull, followed by Stavros, which set the tone for the deck. I mainly tried to focus on permanents so that Stavros could be my endgame defense. Getting the WoKR was just gravy, enabling me to swarm bleed mid game. */ Ally [1] 1x Hexaped /* Drafted early, and Lectora's sole purpose. Huge offense boost for my deck, despite not being able to survive for recursion once used. */ Equipment [7] 1x Assault Rifle 2x Blow Torch 2x Brass Knuckles 1x Phased Motion Detector 1x Saturday Night Special /* Assault Rifle on Stavros with Eternal Vigilance was my hope. Phased Motion Detector was the only intercept I saw other than Legwork and Warning Signs. The other equipment ended up being useful so everyone could have weapons. Tariq with a Blow Torch was quite effective.*/ Master [2] 1x Gambit Accepted 1x Warning Sirens /* Gambit Accepted worked well for me. Generally I manged to reach a 2 player game with it, and then my opponent would just concede. Warning Sirens was primarily used as a dodge since noone was taking stealth actions at my minions, and I realized after a while I should probably draft some masters if I could. */ Political Action [4] 1x Sabbat Inquisitor 1x Snipe Hunt 2x Consanguineous Boon /* The boons not only bloated me, but my grand prey. Would not have won without them. Fabrizia never got the chance to put the Inquisitor out. I put in snipe hunt in case a weenie deck upset the table.*/ Reaction [5] 2x Black Sunrise 1x Legwork 1x Minor Irritation 1x Shattered Mirror /* While good on paper, most of my predator's minions in every game were the same age or older than Stavros, so the last 2 cards were mostly dead weight in the deck :-/. The other 3 were gold, especially with recursion, so I had a lot of untap and decent intercept. */ ---- Overall it was a succesful draft, and the rules seem to scale very well down to 4 boosters. Noone used up all their recursions, everyone seemed to have some strategy with their deck, and most importantly it doesn't seem like anyone was frustrated. When asked if they'd play a 4 booster draft again the answer was generally yes. While some people would have prefered to play with more boosters, the 4 pack format still felt like a regular VTES game, and everyone still had a great time. ----------------------------------------------- Ethan Burrow - the pre/vic guy http://monger.vekn.org http://presence.vekn.org

texasjusticar wrote: > 6 Players attended the IR draft today with the intention of testing out > the new proposed Internal Recusion rules. Those rules for those > unfamiliar with them are (for X boosters): > > Min crypt size = X > Min library size = 5 * X > # of Recursions = 8 - X (Recursion is using a discard phase action to > shuffle your ash heap into your library) > > We decided to play with 4 boosters due to store availability, and also > to test lower limits of boosters for the proposed rule. We drafted 2x > 3rd Edition, 1x Anarchs, and 1x KMW. So for those keeping score : > > Min crypt size = 4 > Min library size = 20 > # of recusions = 4 > The proposed rules have the minimum crypt size at X+1, BTW. http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/vtesirdraft/message/40 And it has been pointed out that the bell curve of effective deck size under 8-X isn't what it should be, so the more recent suggestions have been along the lines of evening out effective deck size (at a minimum of 60). For instance, using 11,5,3,2,1,1,1 recursions for 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 packs, respectively (assuming 11-card packs) to get effective library sizes of 60,60,60,60,50,60,70 (when players use the minimum of 5X cards for their libraries). For 4, that means you'd only get 2 recursions (for three runs through a 20+ library cards) instead of 4 (for five runs through a 20+ library). [ quoted text not captured ]

On Nov 6, 7:49 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > The proposed rules have the minimum crypt size at X+1, BTW.http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/vtesirdraft/message/40 Hrm, I must have missed that. 3 out of 5 finalists had 5+ vampires in their crypt anyways so my oversight there shouldn't affect the outcome that much. However.... > And it has been pointed out that the bell curve of effective deck size under 8-X > isn't what it should be, so the more recent suggestions have been along the > lines of evening out effective deck size (at a minimum of 60). <snip> > For 4, that means you'd only get 2 recursions (for three runs through a 20+ > library cards) instead of 4 (for five runs through a 20+ library). If I recall, only one deck went beyond 2 recursions in the final, and he played burn option/admonitions so he could burn through his deck to reach the stealth/bleed faster. To be honest I realized that 4 recursions equated to a 90-100 card deck halfway through the final, which I agree is a bit excessive. While less simple and harder to remember, I concur that the recusions shouldn't remain 8 - X for smaller booster drafts. If a simple equation won't reflect that, then so be it. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Well, the beauty is that no one needs to remember it -- the coordinator picks the number of packs and (after possibly referring to the VEKN rules as needed), announces to the players how many recursions they'll get. The player's don't need to know the schedule for the number of recursions they'd get for all the various number of boosters, just the number they'd get "now".

On Nov 6, 10:33 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > texasjusticar wrote: > Well, the beauty is that no one needs to remember it -- the coordinator picks > the number of packs and (after possibly referring to the VEKN rules as needed), > announces to the players how many recursions they'll get. > > The player's don't need to know the schedule for the number of recursions they'd > get for all the various number of boosters, just the number they'd get "now". Well, I'm usually the coordinator. And like, my memory sucks. You know this :-) ----------------------------------------------- [ quoted text not captured ]

texasjusticar wrote: > > On Nov 6, 10:33 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> texasjusticar wrote: >> Well, the beauty is that no one needs to remember it -- the coordinator picks >> the number of packs and (after possibly referring to the VEKN rules as needed), >> announces to the players how many recursions they'll get. >> >> The player's don't need to know the schedule for the number of recursions they'd >> get for all the various number of boosters, just the number they'd get "now". > > Well, I'm usually the coordinator. And like, my memory sucks. Well, then, this may be better for you. Unlike size of crypt = X+1 (which you can "remember"), you'll be resigned to checking the rules for the number of recursions every time you run one, since there's no formula to think you remember correctly. :-)

LSJ wrote: > texasjusticar wrote: > > 6 Players attended the IR draft today with the intention of testing out > > the new proposed Internal Recusion rules. Those rules for those > > unfamiliar with them are (for X boosters): > > > > Min crypt size = X > > Min library size = 5 * X > > # of Recursions = 8 - X (Recursion is using a discard phase action to > > shuffle your ash heap into your library) What if you made the number of recursions be # of REcursions= (Standard minimum library size/ Today's Internal Recursion Library Size) Minus 1 rounded up to the next whole number. This would represent an actual modelling as if the deck was filled out to the exact same proportions as a standard deck #= (60/5*X)-1 2 boosters is 5 recursions 3 boosters is 3 recursions 4 boosters is 2 recusions 5 boosters is 2 recursions (2.4 rounded up) 6 boosters is 1 recursions 7 boosters is 1 recursions (0.7 rounded up) 8 boosters is 1 recursions (0.5 rounded up) and so on.... What do you think? Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr XZealot Archon of the Swamp 9 boosters is