LSJ: Tattoo Signal, Burn Option and Non-ready Seraph

If all the Seraphs I control are currently in torpor, can I discard Tattoo Signal using the Burn Option? Tattoo Signal Cardtype: Action Clan: Burn Option +1 stealth action. Requires a Seraph. Put this card on this acting Seraph. This ready Seraph may tap this card to untap another Black Hand vampire. A minion may have only one Tattoo Signal.

On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 20:02:43 -0800 (PST), YY wrote: >If all the Seraphs I control are currently in torpor, can I discard >Tattoo Signal using the Burn Option? http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/ 1.6.1.3 Requirements for Playing Cards. Some cards that have a requirement also have a burn option icon. This icon means that a Methuselah who doesn't control a minion that meets the requirements may discard the card during any Methuselah's untap phase. Each Methuselah is limited to one such discard each untap phase. ----- Notice that this appears to be a change from the Bloodlines rules sheet. http://www.thelasombra.com/rules/BLRulesSheet.pdf http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/BLrules.html 3.2. Burn (Discard) Option This symbol (only found on cards that require a clan to play) indicates that during any Methuselah�s untap phase, the Methuselah can burn (discard) the card from his or her hand if he or she doesn�t control a ready member of the clan required. Each Methuselah is limited to one such discard each untap phase. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Dec 3, 12:42 pm, The Lasombra <TheLasom...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 20:02:43 -0800 (PST), YY wrote: > >If all the Seraphs I control are currently in torpor, can I discard > >Tattoo Signal using the Burn Option? > > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/ > > 1.6.1.3 > Requirements for Playing Cards. > > Some cards that have a requirement also have a burn option icon. This > icon means that a Methuselah who doesn't control a minion that meets > the requirements may discard the card during any Methuselah's untap > phase. Each Methuselah is limited to one such discard each untap > phase. Call me thick, but I still can't quite see this clearly. So I *cannot* use the Burn Option to discard Tattoo Signal if I control a non-ready Seraph and no other Seraphs? -YY

YY wrote: > If all the Seraphs I control are currently in torpor, can I discard > Tattoo Signal using the Burn Option? Yes. You have no minion that meets the requirements of the card. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Dec 3, 5:55 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > YY wrote: > > If all the Seraphs I control are currently in torpor, can I discard > > Tattoo Signal using the Burn Option? > > Yes. You have no minion that meets the requirements of the card. But he does, according to the rules; as Lasombra notes elsewhere in the thread, the wording in the rulebook is: "a Methuselah who doesn't control a minion that meets the requirements may discard the card during any Methuselah's untap phase." The fact that his Seraphs are not ready doesn't factor into how the rule is worded; he controls a minion that meets the requirements, so he can't discard his Tattoo Signal. Is this rule _intended_ to still be "ready" as it was when first printed in Bloodlines?

John Flournoy wrote: > On Dec 3, 5:55 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> YY wrote: >>> If all the Seraphs I control are currently in torpor, can I discard >>> Tattoo Signal using the Burn Option? >> Yes. You have no minion that meets the requirements of the card. > > But he does, according to the rules; It is an action => it requires a ready minion. [6.1] [6.5.1]

[ quoted text not captured ] The Burn Option rule is INTENDED to basically say "If you can't use it, you can dump it". Even though it's formatting allows it to be misconstrued.

[ quoted text not captured ] > 1.6.1.3 > Requirements for Playing Cards. > Some cards that have a requirement also have a burn option icon. This > icon means that a Methuselah who doesn't control a minion that meets > the requirements may discard the card during any Methuselah's untap > phase. Each Methuselah is limited to one such discard each untap > phase. Wouldnt it be better to rephrase the rule and substitute the words "control a" with "have a ready" to avoid misunderstandings? Or is the intention of the phrasing with controlled that you want to make a difference between mastercards and minioncards So that you need to discard burn-option mastercards (like tabriz assembly) in a regular discard phase action if all your vampires that meet that specific requirement are torporized?

Abdul alHazred wrote: >> 1.6.1.3 >> Requirements for Playing Cards. >> Some cards that have a requirement also have a burn option icon. This >> icon means that a Methuselah who doesn't control a minion that meets >> the requirements may discard the card during any Methuselah's untap >> phase. Each Methuselah is limited to one such discard each untap >> phase. > > Wouldnt it be better to rephrase the rule and substitute the words > "control a" with "have a ready" to avoid misunderstandings? No. Not all cards require a ready thing, e.g., High Aye/Orun, Transcendent Laibon, Council of Seraphim, etc. > Or is the intention of the phrasing with controlled that you want to > make a difference between mastercards and minioncards So that you need > to discard burn-option mastercards (like tabriz assembly) in a regular > discard phase action if all your vampires that meet that specific > requirement are torporized? A master card's requirement, if it has one, includes "ready". [1.6.1.3]