Cat's Guidance question

I was wondering EXACTLY WHEN to play this card. The card says: "Only usable immediatly after this vampire blocks. Untap this reacting vampire." Does this means that you play the card: - when you DECLARE that you block the action (even if you might not successfully block); - when you SUCCESSFULLY block the action (before entering combat); - after the combat is resolved. Thank you in advance. Fred.

[ quoted text not captured ] With the absence of LSJ until tomorrow, I will venture an answer. My understanding is that you untap immediately after the block is successful, but before combat begins - usually a moot point. Sometimes it can be useful, like if you then play an Obedience - you are left untapped, which wouldn't happen if you played a Wakey. I believe the same holds true for Freak Drive at superior - you play it before you enter combat but after the action has been blocked. This means that you pay for the Freak Drive before you go into combat, which can hurt you in the ensuing combat. Hope this helps. Chris -- Chris Shorb ino...@ix.netcom.com " 'Well, there's nothing we can do about it so we might as well make the best of it,' replied Twink..." - Snow, via Shanower

In article <33EDDFBA...@ift.ulaval.ca>, Fred Banville <banv...@ift.ulaval.ca> writes >I was wondering EXACTLY WHEN to play this card. > >The card says: "Only usable immediatly after this vampire blocks. Untap >this reacting vampire." > >Does this means that you play the card: >- when you DECLARE that you block the action (even if you might not >successfully block); >- when you SUCCESSFULLY block the action (before entering combat); >- after the combat is resolved. > >Thank you in advance. > >Fred. > The card is played after you successfully block but before combat begins. (The SUCCESSFULLY example). In you first example (DECLARE) the vampire is attempting to block. Unless you woke with a tapped vampire, the vampire would not be tapped because if it was tapped it couldn't react with intercept cards and the like. You *attempt* to block and when you successfully block you are considered to be blocking as opposed to attempting it. (That makes no sense, I hope you follow it ;-) In the second case (the correct one) you are blocking an action so you do play the card then (you have successfully blocked and are no longer attempting to block). In the third case you have no longer just blocked so it is not immediately after this vampire blocks. All cards that say only usable immediately after this vampire blocks (I don't know if there are any others, but anyway) don't count the combat. Blocking means you stop the action going through. You then go into combat. The combat is a completely separate thing from the actual blocking. -- James Coupe (remove .nospam to reply) Some people do it for compassion, Some people do it for the fashion Some people do it to be funny, Some people do it for the money Some people do it for enslavement, Some people do it on the pavement Some people do it for enjoyment, Some people do it for employment

Fred Banville wrote: > > I was wondering EXACTLY WHEN to play this card. > > The card says: "Only usable immediatly after this vampire blocks. Untap > this reacting vampire." > > Does this means that you play the card: > - when you DECLARE that you block the action (even if you might not > successfully block); > - when you SUCCESSFULLY block the action (before entering combat); > - after the combat is resolved. B. "when you SUCCESSFULLY block the action, before combat" -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@regency.wizards.com) Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. (*) - Subject to review by Rules Team

Chris Shorb wrote: > With the absence of LSJ until tomorrow, I will venture an answer. My > understanding is that you untap immediately after the block is > successful, but before combat begins - usually a moot point. Sometimes it > can be useful, like if you then play an Obedience - you are left > untapped, which wouldn't happen if you played a Wakey. > I believe the same holds true for Freak Drive at superior - you > play it before you enter combat but after the action has been > blocked. This means that you pay for the Freak Drive before you go into > combat, which can hurt you in the ensuing combat. To begin, Freak Drive doesnt permit of your reading Chris. The normal version is play immediately_after_this vampire successfully completes an action. The superior version says 'as above'. Contra both Chris and James C. I find it bizzare that you would play a Cats guidance before the combat. I consider the combat part of the action due to effects like Form of Mist and Shadow Body, and the that the action is not resolved until the combat has finished. Therefore the way combat resolves; the last phase is the "psyche if you wanna phase" then combat finishes, and you have the "freaky cats" phase. The acting minion can now choose to play freak drive and the blocking mnion can play cats guidance. The reason that they have their own phase is to prevent people taking advantage of timing niceties. (" Are you doing anything else?" "Yeah, now my next minion will bleed you" "ah, well then Sammy will play cats guidance after the last combat" "What??????" <aggreived expression>) The acting minion goes first to preserve the action-response timing. Hope that helps Fred, James B. (Hunted by James Coupe) :>

James B. Floate wrote: > Chris Shorb wrote: > > With the absence of LSJ until tomorrow, I will venture an answer. My > > understanding is that you untap immediately after the block is > > successful, but before combat begins - usually a moot point. Sometimes it > > can be useful, like if you then play an Obedience - you are left > > untapped, which wouldn't happen if you played a Wakey. > > I believe the same holds true for Freak Drive at superior - you > > play it before you enter combat but after the action has been > > blocked. This means that you pay for the Freak Drive before you go into > > combat, which can hurt you in the ensuing combat. > > To begin, Freak Drive doesnt permit of your reading Chris. The normal > version is play immediately_after_this vampire successfully completes an > action. The superior version says 'as above'. The combat occurs after the block, not as a part of it, according to the Rules Team. Therefore, "after the action" is before the combat. It gets a little heady when applied to Form of Mist, but I can't change the Rules Team's rulings. > Contra both Chris and James C. I find it bizzare that you would play a > Cats guidance before the combat. I consider the combat part of the > action > due to effects like Form of Mist and Shadow Body, and the that the > action is not resolved until the combat has finished. Reasonable, but not official. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ (VtES Rep) wrote: > >Freak Drive doesnt permit of your reading Chris. The normal > >version is play immediately_after_this vampire successfully completes > >an action. The superior version says 'as above'. > > The combat occurs after the block, not as a part of it, according > to the Rules Team. Therefore, "after the action" is before the > combat. > > It gets a little heady when applied to Form of Mist, but I can't > change the Rules Team's rulings. > > > Contra both Chris and James C. I find it bizzare that you would play a > > Cats guidance before the combat. I consider the combat part of the > > action > > due to effects like Form of Mist and Shadow Body, and the that the > > action is not resolved until the combat has finished. > > Reasonable, but not official. Okay, lets get it on. In a post to Justin Fang you told him that combat is the resolution of the Bum's Rush Action, vis-a-vis the Rules Teams position. Therefore in that situation you Freak Drive after the combat, because the combat is part of the action. In any non-intentional combat causing action, such as a bleed (regardless of whether you bleed to get blocked or not) the combat is not part of the block. This is the rules team's position YAH? Thats bloody stupid. If my position is "Reasonable, but not official.", does that mean their position is "Unreasonable, but official."? :> Form of Mist specifically states "continue his or her action", if the action has finished when the block occurs, what action is their to continue? The only action you _could_ continue is Bums Rush, precisely the one which we dont want to allow! Wake says "...until the current action is concluded", which terminates when a block has occured, yet the Rules Team allow a vampire who played a wake to block a form of misting vampire again if they can generate more intercept. Both of these are in conflict with this division of action and combat. Is the combat a part of a _blocked_ Bums Rush action? or only successful ones? I would appreciate it if you would bring this to the Unrules Team's attention, or explain the esoteric reason for the distinction that I obviously havent grasped. I suspect it has something to do with psyche, and that they couldnt figure out what happens when you form of mist,psyche,form of mist again, but we'll wait and see. Then again, i'll keep playing it my way no matter the result, if they change maybe I can play officially again. Sorry to be nasty, but I just thought that I would remind people that this is the rules team who recently decided that stealth and intercept could be cycled if there was no block. <puts the boot in> James B. La la la