(LSJ) Outside the hourglass question

There was a situation a couple of days ago when some Trujah was blocked by The Unnamed. He played Outside the hourglass to inflict 2 damage on The Unnamed. Can The Unnamed play Flesh of Marble to reduce damage taken to 1? Or does OTH resolve right away before any cards can be played by blocking minion? My guess is the latter, but not everyone in my gaming group thinks that way. Their argument is that Flesh of Marble is a damage preventing effect and so it can be played during ''prevent damage'' step of damage from OTH, similar to using Soak or smth. Flesh of Marble Only usable before range is chosen. [pro] For the duration of the combat, when this vampire suffers a point of damage (that he or she does not prevent) in a given round, any additional damage inflicted on this vampire in the same round is automatically prevented. Aggravated damage cannot be prevented in this way. [PRO] As above, but aggravated damage is prevented in this way as well. Outside the Hourglass obf Strike: dodge. [tem] Maneuver, or strike: dodge, with an optional maneuver. [TEM] Only usable before range is determined. Inflict 2 damage on the opposing minion. A vampire can play only one Outside the Hourglass at superior each round.

On May 25, 11:11 pm, Drago13 <eduard.kep...@mf.vu.lt> wrote: > There was a situation a couple of days ago when some Trujah was > blocked by The Unnamed. > He played Outside the hourglass to inflict 2 damage on The Unnamed. > Can The Unnamed play Flesh of Marble to reduce damage taken to 1? > Or does OTH resolve right away before any cards can be played by > blocking minion? > My guess is the latter, but not everyone in my gaming group thinks > that way. > Their argument is that Flesh of Marble is a damage preventing effect > and so it can be played during ''prevent damage'' step of damage from > OTH, similar to using Soak or smth. > Nope. You can play soak and skin of rock and anything similar to prevent outside the hourglass. That damage is preventable. You CANNOT, however, play skin of steel, rolling with the punches at FOR or similar, that specify damage from a strike, to prevent it. You can play flesh of marble at any time, there are no timing restrictions (apart from in combat of course :) thus you could play this, take one, and prevent everything else for the remainder of combat... [ quoted text not captured ]

On May 25, 5:36 pm, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote: > On May 25, 11:11 pm, Drago13 <eduard.kep...@mf.vu.lt> wrote: > > > There was a situation a couple of days ago when some Trujah was > > blocked by The Unnamed. > > He played Outside the hourglass to inflict 2 damage on The Unnamed. > > Can The Unnamed play Flesh of Marble to reduce damage taken to 1? > > Or does OTH resolve right away before any cards can be played by > > blocking minion? > > My guess is the latter, but not everyone in my gaming group thinks > > that way. > > Their argument is that Flesh of Marble is a damage preventing effect > > and so it can be played during ''prevent damage'' step of damage from > > OTH, similar to using Soak or smth. > > Nope. You can play soak and skin of rock and anything similar to > prevent outside the hourglass. That damage is preventable. You CANNOT, > however, play skin of steel, rolling with the punches at FOR or > similar, that specify damage from a strike, to prevent it. > > You can play flesh of marble at any time, there are no timing > restrictions (apart from in combat of course :) thus you could play > this, take one, and prevent everything else for the remainder of > combat... Correct. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] > > superior each round.- Ocultar texto citado - > > - Mostrar texto citado - So the OtH damage doesn't resolve immediately, thus preventing the non- acting player from playing the Flesh of Marble effectively? I'd have guessed that the card's effects are fully applied before the impulse passes back to the blocking methuselah.. Drain

On May 25, 9:49 pm, Drain <dr...@hotmail.com> wrote: > So the OtH damage doesn't resolve immediately, thus preventing the non- > acting player from playing the Flesh of Marble effectively? The damage is applied, sure. But, like any damage, it can be prevented. If damage "resolved" (burned blood) immediately, then Skin of Rock, say, could never be played.

[ quoted text not captured ] So Flesh of Marble is considered a prevent card since afaik you arent able to play other cards in the prevent phase?

[ quoted text not captured ] Could the target of Outside the Hourglass cycle a Torn Signpost (hoping to replace with a prevention card) before preventing the damage OtH inflicts him ?

[ quoted text not captured ] Right. I understood that complete resolution still had to allow for prevention but didn't think that it would permit the playing of pre- range cards, regardless of whether their effects include preventing damage or not. Drain

So, are you saying that damage in ''Before the range is chosen'' phase is resolved (blood is burned) at the end of the phase, after both players played all the cards they want? So, for example if damage from OTH is aggravated because of Dawn Operation, the blocking metuselah can play Skin of Night to make it non-aggravated? In that case can blocking metuselah play Weather Control or smth before going to torpor?

[ quoted text not captured ] You should include the text you refer to when replying to someone. Anyways, cards that are played in the "before range" window are played in that window with the usual sequencing rules. If the damage from OtH is aggravated for some reason, Skin of Night can be played.

[ quoted text not captured ] I understand that, but I thought that if Acting minion plays OtH, the opposing minion takes damage before he can play any more of his ''usable before the range is chosen'' cards, except for damage prevention cards like Soak or Skin of rock, which are played right away after the damage is applied. So if acting vampire plays OtH, the opposing minion can't play his Torn signpost until he takes (or prevents) damage from it. Also I thought that Flesh of Marble is different from normal damage prevention cards, because it effect triggers after you take first point of damage. So I thought that if acting vampire playes OtH first, he can't play Flesh of Marble before taking the damage, and so Flesh of Marble will be played after he takes damage thus its damage preventing effect will not trigger. (Until he takes another point of damage later this round)

[ quoted text not captured ] IANLSJ but the damage from OtH is resolved before non-prevent cards can be played. Cards that can prevent damage can be played because the rulebook explicitly allows it. "6.4.6. Damage Resolution Damage resolution has two steps: prevent damage and heal damage. First, the minion taking damage can play damage prevention cards (such as the combat card Skin of Rock) if he is able to do so. These damage prevention cards are played one at a time until all the damage is prevented or until the minion chooses not to play any more." So my guess is that you can play Skin of Night at superior but not at inferior. Unless the aggravated damage is coming from an unpreventable source, like Dawn Op+Weather Control.

On May 26, 9:18 am, suoli <suoliruse...@gmail.com> wrote: > IANLSJ but the damage from OtH is resolved before non-prevent cards > can be played. Cards that can prevent damage can be played because the > rulebook explicitly allows it. Yes; I think the question is, Flesh of Marble does not appear to be a standard damage-prevention card, so Drago13 (and others, like me) are wondering whether it counts as a card that can be played during a damage-prevention step, somehow. In other words, this is not about damage prevention generally, it's about Flesh of Marble specifically. - D.J.

[ quoted text not captured ] Exactly, this question is about Flesh of Marble, and also, as someone mentioned, about Skin of Night on inferior (if dmg. from OtH is somehow aggravated), which isn't a 'card that prevents damage' as written in a rulebook.

[ quoted text not captured ] Even more specifically - is FoM to be understood as a prerange card that sets up a future damage prevention effect but is not itself a damage-prevention card suitable to be played during the damage- prevention step, or is it a damage-prevention card that can also be played proactively when no damage is pending, but only up until the end of the before-range step for either reactive or proactive use?

On 26 Maj, 02:25, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > On May 25, 5:36 pm, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On May 25, 11:11 pm, Drago13 <eduard.kep...@mf.vu.lt> wrote: > > > > There was a situation a couple of days ago when some Trujah was > > > blocked by The Unnamed. > > > He playedOutsidethe hourglass to inflict 2 damage on The Unnamed. > > > Can The Unnamed play Flesh ofMarbleto reduce damage taken to 1? > > > Or does OTH resolve right away before any cards can be played by > > > blocking minion? > > > My guess is the latter, but not everyone in my gaming group thinks > > > that way. > > > Their argument is that Flesh ofMarbleis a damage preventing effect > > > and so it can be played during ''prevent damage'' step of damage from > > > OTH, similar to using Soak or smth. > > > Nope. You can play soak and skin of rock and anything similar to > > preventoutsidethe hourglass. That damage is preventable. You CANNOT, > > however, play skin of steel, rolling with the punches at FOR or > > similar, that specify damage from a strike, to prevent it. > > > You can play flesh ofmarbleat any time, there are no timing > > restrictions (apart from in combat of course :) thus you could play > > this, take one, and prevent everything else for the remainder of > > combat... > > Correct. > > > > > > Flesh ofMarble > > > > Only usable before range is chosen. > > > [pro] For the duration of the combat, when this vampire suffers a > > > point of damage (that he or she does not prevent) in a given round, > > > any additional damage inflicted on this vampire in the same round is > > > automatically prevented. Aggravated damage cannot be prevented in this > > > way. > > > [PRO] As above, but aggravated damage is prevented in this way as > > > well. > > > >Outsidethe Hourglass > > > > obf Strike: dodge. > > > [tem] Maneuver, or strike: dodge, with an optional maneuver. > > > [TEM] Only usable before range is determined. Inflict 2 damage on the > > > opposing minion. A vampire can play only oneOutsidethe Hourglass at > > > superior each round. > > Just want to get to the bottom of this so I understand the reasoning behind this ruling and so I can with my limited jyhadness(tm) logically explain it to others in my playgroup rather than saying "It ´s the ruling of LSJ". Flesh of Marble can be played in response to OtH (or other damge inflicted prerange) on the grounds of what? Flesh of marble says "For the duration of the combat, when this vampire suffers a point of damage (that he or she does not prevent)" so its effect kicks in AFTER the choice to not prevent the damage by any other means than with flesh of marble and as I see it the only cards that you could have impulse to play prerange after OtH is played would be prevent cards (is FoM a prevent card?). The question also arises to when a vampire "suffers" damage since The resolution of the damage runs afaik damage is inflicted/declared then you go into damage resolution (rulebook 6.4.6 http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/) which is divided into two steps 1 prevent damage and 2 heal damage. Where in this sequence is it you can play Flesh of Marble and why? To me it seems somewhat logical to be able to play (can you do this in response to OtH?)Skin of the Adder, Mythic Form, Sword of the Righteous, Horrid Form et al who in one way or the other says "prevent x damage", but flesh of marbles phrasing says "after this moment the vampire is immune to dmg except the first point inflicted." which is a very different wording. /thanks Tomas Skin of the Adder Type: Combat Blood Cost: 1 Discipline: Serpentis [ser] Play before range is determined. This vampire may prevent 1 damage each round. A vampire can play only one Skin of the Adder each combat. [SER] As above, and this vampire's hand strikes inflict an additional point of damage for the remainder of combat. Mythic Form Type: Combat Blood Cost: 3 Discipline: Protean [pro] Play before range is determined on the first round. For the remainder of this combat, this vampire gets +1 strength and can prevent 1 non-aggravated damage each round. A vampire can play only one Mythic Form each combat. [PRO] As above, but with an optional maneuver, and this vampire can inflict 2R aggravated damage as a strike once each round this combat. Sword of the Righteous Type: Combat Blood Cost: 1 Discipline: Valeren/Animalism Only usable before range is determined. [ani] Choose one of this vampire's melee weapons. For the remainder of combat, this vampire inflicts +1 damage each strike with that weapon. A vampire can play only one Sword of the Righteous each combat. [val] As [ani] above, and the damage this vampire inflicts with the weapon is aggravated. [VAL] As [val] above, and this vampire may prevent 1 damage this round. Horrid Form Type: Combat Blood Cost: 1 Discipline: Vicissitude Only usable before range is chosen. [vic] This vampire gets +1 strength for the remainder of combat. [VIC] As above, and this vampire may prevent 1 damage each round for the remainder of combat.

> > > > Flesh of Marble > > > > > Only usable before range is chosen. > > > > [pro] For the duration of the combat, when this vampire suffers a > > > > point of damage (that he or she does not prevent) in a given round, > > > > any additional damage inflicted on this vampire in the same round is > > > > automatically prevented. Aggravated damage cannot be prevented in this > > > > way. > > > > [PRO] As above, but aggravated damage is prevented in this way as > > > > well. > Just want to get to the bottom of this so I understand the reasoning > behind this ruling and so I can with my limited jyhadness(tm) > logically explain it to others in my playgroup rather than saying "It > ´s the ruling of LSJ". > > Flesh of Marble can be played in response to OtH (or other damge > inflicted prerange) on the grounds of what? Flesh of Marble isn't "played in response" of anything. It MUST be played prior to range be determined, that and the fact that it is a combat card are the only restrictions on when it can be played.

[ quoted text not captured ] So according to you there is nothing special about flesh of marble and what I then deduct from your answer is that you can play ANY number of "usable before range is chosen" cards in response to a played OtH card?

> > > Flesh of Marble can be played in response to OtH (or other damge > > > inflicted prerange) on the grounds of what? > > > Flesh of Marble isn't "played in response" of anything. It MUST be > > played prior to range be determined, that and the fact that it is a > > combat card are the only restrictions on when it can be played. > > So according to you there is nothing special about flesh of marble and > what I then deduct from your answer is that you can play ANY number of > "usable before range is chosen" cards in response to a played OtH card? I believe some of your deduction is correct. That is, if someone played OtH and had no further preranged cards to play at that time - you could play two, three, four, etc. Horrid Form and prevent that damage. I think the confusion is with the idea of 'timing'. I'm sure others can point this out more clearly, but the 'timing' is different from many other ccg's in that there is no response to the playing of other cards. I don't think there is a technical term 'play in response to' in vtes. Of course often times you are playing some cards only because the other player has played something but in vtes I don't think there is a 'play in response to' option rather it is "I have no further cards to play at this time, do you wish to now play cards at this time?" At this point, when nobody wants to play anymore cards, cards then happen. So, OtH is inflicting 2 damage before range is determined, X cards are doing whatever, and FoM is checking to see if the vamp has taken one damage so it can start to prevent any further damage. This is how I understand it and I could be incorrect. Also, if you had five FoM you could play them all, before range is determined as it says on the card, even if there is no damage.

[ quoted text not captured ] Thank you for answering. (and I would love to see a clarification/explanation from LSJ) I think I shouldn´t have used the phrase "in response" since you play cards that cancels other cards "in response" to cards played but otherwise you play a card and it is played, its effect is implemented immediately. If someone plays Aura Reading at AUS the controller of the opposing minion can´t say "before you draw those two cards I want to play x "only usable before range is chosen"-cards." So if OtH says "Only usable before range is determined. Inflict 2 damage on the opposing minion." isnt the damage inflicted as the card is played and shouldnt the damage inflicted be resolved as it is inflicted before any other cards (like Flesh of Marble)? This isnt like declaring a strike, it´s a direct effect ie the impulse doesn´t go to the opposing vampires controller before dealing with the effects of the played OtH (ergo the damage resolution step). Now the assumption I make and this could very well be wrong is that when damage is inflicted it is immediately followed by a damage prevent phase (1 step in damage resolution) and the only cards that you are allowed to play in a damage prevent phase is prevent cards. Since I have a hard time seeing someone argue that the damage isn´t inflicted as the card is played then I must assume if the above is correct that the damage is inflicted and then you can wait throughout the window (ie before range is chosen) to prevent the damage otherwise why would you be able to play cards between the time OtH is played and the damage prevented? this is and old link, but only one I found to have some similarities to OtH I would say is Blood to Water. If you have vamp a play blood to water and vamp b has less than 3 blood can he then play ie wolf claws for one of the blood that is supposed to be burned by blood to water? I would argue no. Vamp B burns 3 /5 blood as Blood to water is played (and not cancelled). Now damage and burning blood isnt the same thing, but once again OtH should be according to the phrasing of the card an immediate effect exactly like Blood to Water. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_thread/thread/3e421f3ab93be613/7749df0cac29f452?lnk=gst&q=blood+to+water#7749df0cac29f452 As I see it: 1 Controller of Vamp A plays OtH 2 Damage resolution step 2.1 Damage prevent (Vamp B:s controller can play prevent cards) 2.2 Damage heal (Vamp B burns blood to heal damage not prevented) 3 Impulse to Vamp A:s controller No time during this sequence does the impulse to play any other card than prevent cards pass over to vamp B except prehaps in the heal damage phase and if Flesh of marble would be played there it wouldnt effect the damage from OtH Then Flesh of Marble presents another conundrum where it says "For the duration of the combat, when this vampire suffers a point of damage (that he or she does not prevent) in a given round," and from this i take that you suffer the damage before you choose not to prevent it from the logic of the phrasing. So where between that the damager is inflicted (as per OtH:s wording) and Vamp B.s controllers choice of not preventing the damage is the damage suffered? Logically for flesh of marble to be able to prevent OtH:s damage the sequence has to be: OtH is played (damage inflicted) Flesh of Marble is played Damage is "suffered" damage is not prevented with prevent cards Flesh of marbles effect kicks in and prevents one point of the damage Vamp B heals 1 point of damage. To me that doesnt logcally make sense unless you have a "damage inflict step" and "damage suffered step" . Problem is that there are different words used, but suffered, since it is before prevent would logiacally be as it is inflicted and since it is inflicted as OtH is played and Flesh of Marble is played after OtH the flesh of marble effect wouldnt ecompass the damage from OtH since it is already suffered. /Tomas (who just wont let go)

On 10 Juni, 11:26, Abdul alHazred <hallonkul...@yahoo.se> wrote: > On 8 Juni, 23:31, TorranceCircle <torrance.cir...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Flesh ofMarblecan be played in response to OtH (or other damge > > > > > inflicted prerange) on the grounds of what? > > > > > Flesh ofMarbleisn't "played in response" of anything. It MUST be [ quoted text not captured ] > any other cards (like Flesh ofMarble)? This isnt like declaring a > strike, it´s a direct effect ie the impulse doesn´t go to the opposing > vampires controller before dealing with the effects of the played OtH > (ergo the damage resolution step). > > Now the assumption I make and this could very well be wrong is that > when damage is inflicted it is immediately followed by a damage > prevent phase (1 step in damage resolution) and the only cards that > you are allowed to play in a damage prevent phase is prevent cards. > Since I have a hard time seeing someone argue that the damage isn´t > inflicted as the card is played then I must assume if the above is > correct that the damage is inflicted and then you can wait throughout > the window (ie before range is chosen) to prevent the damage otherwise > why would you be able to play cards between the time OtH is played and > the damage prevented? > > this is and old link, but only one I found to have some similarities > to OtH I would say is Blood to Water. If you have vamp a play blood to > water and vamp b has less than 3 blood can he then play ie wolf claws > for one of the blood that is supposed to be burned by blood to water? > I would argue no. Vamp B burns 3 /5 blood as Blood to water is played > (and not cancelled). Now damage and burning blood isnt the same thing, > but once again OtH should be according to the phrasing of the card an > immediate effect exactly like Blood to Water. > > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_t... > > As I see it: > 1 Controller of Vamp A plays OtH > 2 Damage resolution step > 2.1 Damage prevent (Vamp B:s controller can play prevent cards) > 2.2 Damage heal (Vamp B burns blood to heal damage not prevented) > 3 Impulse to Vamp A:s controller > > No time during this sequence does the impulse to play any other card > than prevent cards pass over to vamp B except prehaps in the heal > damage phase and if Flesh ofmarblewould be played there it wouldnt > effect the damage from OtH > > Then Flesh ofMarblepresents another conundrum where it says "For the > duration of the combat, when this vampire suffers a point of damage > (that he or she does not prevent) in a given round," and from this i > take that you suffer the damage before you choose not to prevent it > from the logic of the phrasing. So where between that the damager is > inflicted (as per OtH:s wording) and Vamp B.s controllers choice of > not preventing the damage is the damage suffered? > > Logically for flesh ofmarbleto be able to prevent OtH:s damage the > sequence has to be: > > OtH is played (damage inflicted) > Flesh ofMarbleis played > Damage is "suffered" > damage is not prevented with prevent cards > Flesh of marbles effect kicks in and prevents one point of the damage > Vamp B heals 1 point of damage. > > To me that doesnt logcally make sense unless you have a "damage > inflict step" and "damage suffered step" . Problem is that there are > different words used, but suffered, since it is before prevent would > logiacally be as it is inflicted and since it is inflicted as OtH is > played and Flesh ofMarbleis played after OtH the flesh ofmarble > effect wouldnt ecompass the damage from OtH since it is already > suffered. > > /Tomas (who just wont let go)- Dölj citerad text - > > - Visa citerad text - to boil this thread down and hopefully get some (as I feel unanswered) questioned straightened out I´ll try to phrase it in claims that can be rebutted or confirmed with one word answers and hope someone with better jyhad-fu than me can answer for me. - You can play horrid form (and similar cards) before preventing/ healing damage from an OtH already played. - You can play any (number) "only useable before range is determined" cards before preventing/healing damage from an OtH already played. - You can play Skin of Night at inferior to change the nature of the damage from an OtH already played if that damage is aggravated before preventing/healing that damage. - You can play Wolf Claws (and similar cards) before preventing/ healing damage from an OtH already played. Skin of Night Type: Combat Discipline: Fortitude [for] This vampire treats aggravated damage as normal damage for the remainder of this round. [FOR] As above, and prevent 1 damage. I would greatly appreciate some feedback on this. /thanks Tomas

On Jul 6, 6:19 am, Abdul alHazred <hallonkul...@yahoo.se> wrote: > [massive snip] > to boil this thread down and hopefully get some (as I feel unanswered) > questioned straightened out I´ll try to phrase it in claims that can > be rebutted or confirmed with one word answers and hope someone with > better jyhad-fu than me can answer for me. > > - You can play horrid form (and similar cards) before preventing/ > healing damage from an OtH already played. Yes. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/7b4a0293b1e288be http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/3cc686fc638b5ad1 http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/cf93fbdc27e1c3fd > - You can play any (number) "only useable before range is determined" > cards before preventing/healing damage from an OtH already played. Yes. (same URL) > - You can play Skin of Night at inferior to change the nature of the > damage from an OtH already played if that damage is aggravated before > preventing/healing that damage. Yes. > - You can play Wolf Claws (and similar cards) before preventing/ > healing damage from an OtH already played. Yes. [ quoted text not captured ]

On 6 Juli, 14:28, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > On Jul 6, 6:19 am, Abdul alHazred <hallonkul...@yahoo.se> wrote: > > > > [massive snip] > > > to boil this thread down and hopefully get some (as I feel unanswered) > > questioned straightened out I´ll try to phrase it in claims that can > > be rebutted or confirmed with one word answers and hope someone with > > better jyhad-fu than me can answer for me. > > > - You can play horrid form (and similar cards) before preventing/ > > healing damage from an OtH already played. > > Yes.http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/7b4a...http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/3cc6...http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/cf93... > > > - You can play any (number) "only useable before range is determined" > > cards before preventing/healing damage from an OtH already played. > > Yes. > (same URL) > > > - You can play Skin of Night at inferior to change the nature of the > > damage from an OtH already played if that damage is aggravated before > > preventing/healing that damage. > > Yes. > > > - You can play Wolf Claws (and similar cards) before preventing/ > > healing damage from an OtH already played. > > Yes. > > > > > > > Skin of Night > > Type: Combat > > Discipline: Fortitude > > > [for] This vampire treats aggravated damage as normal damage for the > > remainder of this round. > > [FOR] As above, and prevent 1 damage. > > > I would greatly appreciate some feedback on this. > > > /thanks Tomas- Dölj citerad text - > > - Visa citerad text - Thanks alot LSJ.

On Jul 6, 2:28 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > On Jul 6, 6:19 am, Abdul alHazred <hallonkul...@yahoo.se> wrote: > > - You can play any (number) "only useable before range is determined" > > cards before preventing/healing damage from an OtH already played. > Yes. > (same URL) and > > - You can play Wolf Claws (and similar cards) before preventing/ > > healing damage from an OtH already played. > > Yes. I'm having a bit of trouble combining this with the answer given in http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/716cd1abb755ff3f Relevant quote: On Apr 26, 12:59 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > On Apr 26, 1:26 am, YY <the1andonl...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote: > > On Apr 26, 11:07 am, Haze <headlessr...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > (5) Finally, needing a clarification on effects in the pre-range step. > > > Oops I mean, the Only Usable Before Range Is Determined Pseudo-Step. > > > This happened in a game and we weren't sure what would happen. > > > Al-Muntaquim is blocked by Saulot and plays Dawn Operation, so all > > > damage in combat is aggravated. Al-Muntaquim plays Outside the > > > Hourglass (Pre-range: Inflict 2 damage). Saulot's controller doesn't > > > have damage prevention on hand, but plays Weather Control before > > > resolving the 2 agg effect which would send him to torpor. Is ordering > > > pre-range effects like this allowed? > > No. Outside the Hourglass resolves when it in played. Saulot takes 2 > > aggravated damage and goes to torpor without a chance to play other > > cards (except to prevent the damage or to cancel OtH). > Correct. which, to me, reads as a limitation on the cards that can be played in response to Outside the Hourglass. Could this be further clarified, please?

On Jul 6, 10:16 am, Neil <drnlmul...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Jul 6, 2:28 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > > On Jul 6, 6:19 am, Abdul alHazred <hallonkul...@yahoo.se> wrote: > > > - You can play any (number) "only useable before range is determined" > > > cards before preventing/healing damage from an OtH already played. > > Yes. > > (same URL) > > and > > > > - You can play Wolf Claws (and similar cards) before preventing/ > > > healing damage from an OtH already played. > > > Yes. > > I'm having a bit of trouble combining this with the answer given inhttp://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/716c... > > Relevant quote: > > On Apr 26, 12:59 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > > On Apr 26, 1:26 am, YY <the1andonl...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote: > > > On Apr 26, 11:07 am, Haze <headlessr...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > (5) Finally, needing a clarification on effects in the pre-range step. > > > > Oops I mean, the Only Usable Before Range Is Determined Pseudo-Step. > > > > This happened in a game and we weren't sure what would happen. > > > > Al-Muntaquim is blocked by Saulot and plays Dawn Operation, so all > > > > damage in combat is aggravated. Al-Muntaquim plays Outside the > > > > Hourglass (Pre-range: Inflict 2 damage). Saulot's controller doesn't > > > > have damage prevention on hand, but plays Weather Control before > > > > resolving the 2 agg effect which would send him to torpor. Is ordering > > > > pre-range effects like this allowed? > > > No. Outside the Hourglass resolves when it in played. Saulot takes 2 > > > aggravated damage and goes to torpor without a chance to play other > > > cards (except to prevent the damage or to cancel OtH). > > Correct. > > which, to me, reads as a limitation on the cards that can be played in > response to Outside the Hourglass. Could this be further clarified, > please? A mistake on my part (the latter citation). The RTR is still correct.

[ quoted text not captured ] Goratrix attempts to block Shalmath. Shalmath plays Domain of Evernight at inferior and the block succeeds. Before range, Shalmath plays Outside the Hourglass and Goratrix plays Weather Control. What happens?

On Jul 6, 1:00 pm, suoli <suoliruse...@gmail.com> wrote: [snip unused quoted material] > Goratrix attempts to block Shalmath. Shalmath plays Domain of > Evernight at inferior and the block succeeds. Before range, Shalmath > plays Outside the Hourglass and Goratrix plays Weather Control. What > happens? Goratrix takes 2 damage from OtH. Goratrix and Shalmath each take 1 unpreventable damage from WC. All that damage is aggravated, thanks to DoE. Any retainers on Shalmath and Goratrix each take 1 unpreventable damage from WC.

On 6 heinä, 15:28, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > On Jul 6, 6:19 am, Abdul alHazred <hallonkul...@yahoo.se> wrote: > > > > [massive snip] > > > to boil this thread down and hopefully get some (as I feel unanswered) > > questioned straightened out I´ll try to phrase it in claims that can > > be rebutted or confirmed with one word answers and hope someone with > > better jyhad-fu than me can answer for me. > > > - You can play horrid form (and similar cards) before preventing/ > > healing damage from an OtH already played. > > Yes.http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/7b4a...http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/3cc6...http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/cf93... > > > - You can play any (number) "only useable before range is determined" > > cards before preventing/healing damage from an OtH already played. > > Yes. > (same URL) Can I also play any number of pre-range cards as the acting minion before the damage from OtH is handled? I should have the impulse as the acting minion, right? Or does the damage resolution of OtH somehow move the impulse to play combat cards to the reacting minion?