rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

[LSJ] ? - Wildhunt & Bloodhunt

21 messages from 12 participants · 13 November 1996 – 28 November 1996
original thread on Google Groups

Sorrow

Ok, it's fairly clear that a Bloodhunt and a Wildhunt are pretty much the same thing, just different names for different sects. My question revolves around Muaziz. Can a Wildhunt be called on her by Antitribes? It only says that a Bloodhunt cannot be called on her in her special. My initial reaction would be no, regardless of the name a Hunt cannot be called on her but I would like a more 'official' (or as much as can be found) ruling on this. Sorrow -- I don't want to be alone | I hurt, therefore I am anymore |-------------------------------- I don't want to be anyone | "What are you looking at...? anymore | you never seen anyone try to I don't need a reason to kill myself | commit suicide before?" - Anon ------------------------------------------------------------------------

L. Scott Johnson

cbo...@apdi.net (Sorrow) writes: >Ok, it's fairly clear that a Bloodhunt and a Wildhunt are pretty much the same >thing, just different names for different sects. >My question revolves around Muaziz. Can a Wildhunt be called on her by >Antitribes? It only says that a Bloodhunt cannot be called on her in her >special. My initial reaction would be no, regardless of the name a Hunt cannot >be called on her but I would like a more 'official' (or as much as can be >found) ruling on this. Official: I haven't a clue My Impression of the Rules Team's eventual tendencies: (And my own personal suggestion): Wild hunt is exactly the same thing as a Blood Hunt. An addendum to my own opinion: There should never have been a new term for the Blood Hunt, since it adds nothing to the game and only creates confusion. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Experience is something you http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | get just after you need it. Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |

Sorrow

>An addendum to my own opinion: There should never have been a new term > for the Blood Hunt, since it adds nothing to the game and only creates > confusion. I agree. But I just wanted to make sure so when I Diablerize with Muaziz I don't get a "Wild" Hunt get called on her just because she cannot get a "Blood" Hunt called on her. The Rules Team are so silly. [ quoted text not captured ]

David Pontes

On 13 Nov 1996, L. Scott Johnson wrote: > cbo...@apdi.net (Sorrow) writes: > [wild hunt = Blood hunt?] > > Official: I haven't a clue > My Impression of the Rules Team's eventual tendencies: > (And my own personal suggestion): Wild hunt is exactly the same thing > as a Blood Hunt. > > An addendum to my own opinion: There should never have been a new term > for the Blood Hunt, since it adds nothing to the game and only creates > confusion. > And I recall seeing a Sabbat card (probably a reprint) that referred to a Blood hunt and not a wild hunt :) I cannot really answer the question (for obvious reasons) but I'd like to add another question: is Muaziz vulnerable to the Blood Hunt card? (i.e. can she be the target of a Blood Hunt action?). David Pontes P.S.-> I know that Jon isn't really going to reply this as soon as LSJ (if ever), but don't you think it's kinda bad that you make posts bearing a request for LSJ's particular answer? I mean, he doesn't seem to mind, but *he's not getting paid to do this*! :) 8[

L. Scott Johnson

David Pontes <l41...@alfa.ist.utl.pt> writes: >On 13 Nov 1996, L. Scott Johnson wrote: >> cbo...@apdi.net (Sorrow) writes: > [wild hunt = Blood hunt?] >> >> My Impression of the Rules Team's eventual tendencies: >> (And my own personal suggestion): Wild hunt is exactly the same thing >> as a Blood Hunt. >> >> An addendum to my own opinion: There should never have been a new term >> for the Blood Hunt, since it adds nothing to the game and only creates >> confusion. > And I recall seeing a Sabbat card (probably a reprint) that >referred to a Blood hunt and not a wild hunt :) Not a reprint, a new vampire (how's that for "extensive testing"?) : March Halcyon Pander Capacity: 1 Disciplines: for If March is diablerized, no one can call a Blood Hunt against the acting vampire. Artist: Ken Meyer, Jr. > I cannot really answer the question (for obvious reasons) but I'd >like to add another question: is Muaziz vulnerable to the Blood Hunt >card? (i.e. can she be the target of a Blood Hunt action?). Yes, she is. Blood Hunt (the post-diablerie referendum) is distinct from Bloodhunt (the action). [ quoted text not captured ]

J. Andrew Lipscomb

In article <56d0vq$g...@news.cais.com>, cbo...@apdi.net (Sorrow) wrote: > Ok, it's fairly clear that a Bloodhunt and a Wildhunt are pretty much the same > thing, just different names for different sects. > My question revolves around Muaziz. Can a Wildhunt be called on her by > Antitribes? It only says that a Bloodhunt cannot be called on her in her > special. My initial reaction would be no, regardless of the name a Hunt cannot > be called on her but I would like a more 'official' (or as much as can be > found) ruling on this. My guess would be that it is the target that determines whether a hunt is Blood or Wild. Therefore, to be Wild Hunted, she would somehow have to become Sabbat (which might or might not be possible for all I know...) J. Andrew Lipscomb <ew...@chattanooga.net, them...@delphi.com> PGP keys by request

Sorrow

>like to add another question: is Muaziz vulnerable to the Blood Hunt >card? (i.e. can she be the target of a Blood Hunt action?). I don't see why not. Attacking at +1 stealth is *very* much different than burning. >P.S.-> I know that Jon isn't really going to reply this as soon as LSJ >(if ever), but don't you think it's kinda bad that you make posts bearing a >request for LSJ's particular answer? I mean, he doesn't seem to mind, but >*he's not getting paid to do this*! :) I agree. And it would be nice if LSJ got paid, but the unfortunate and sad thing is that LSJ seems to care more about this game and it's players than WotC does. And you'll get a generally correct albeit "unofficial" answer much faster by asking him than by asking Jon or anyone else (questions@) at WotC. This, indeed, is very sad (and disheartening). [ quoted text not captured ]

Jon Wilkie

In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.96111...@alfa.ist.utl.pt>, David Pontes <l41...@alfa.ist.utl.pt> wrote: > And I recall seeing a Sabbat card (probably a reprint) that > referred to a Blood hunt and not a wild hunt :) Yet another question I can answer! Cool. Wild Hunt and Blood Hunt are pretty much the same. Only a player with a Sabbat vampire may call a Wild Hunt, and only a player with a Camarilla vampire may call a Blood Hunt. However, anyone can vote on either, so they're basically the same. ------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Wilkie Wot...@aol.com a.k.a."Scalpel" Customer Service, Wizards of the Coast "This isn't going to have a happy ending" -Detective Somerset, Se7en -------------------------------------------------------------

James Puzzo

Jon Wilkie (Wot...@aol.com) wrote: : In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.96111...@alfa.ist.utl.pt>, : David Pontes <l41...@alfa.ist.utl.pt> wrote: : > And I recall seeing a Sabbat card (probably a reprint) that : > referred to a Blood hunt and not a wild hunt :) : : Yet another question I can answer! Cool. : : Wild Hunt and Blood Hunt are pretty much the same. Only a player with a : Sabbat vampire may call a Wild Hunt, and only a player with a Camarilla : vampire may call a Blood Hunt. However, anyone can vote on either, so : they're basically the same. Ok, I understand that anyone can vote for either a blood hunt or a wild hunt. The questions I have are: 1. Can a Wild Hunt be called on a Camarilla vampire, or a Bloodhunt on a Sabbat vampire? 2. If card text refers to either wild hunt or blood hunt, shoud that text be read literally as referring only to the specified hunt, or should they be seen as equivalent with respect to card text -- The answers to the two would clarify, for instance, the following questions: (I would like actual answers to the following questions...) a. Is a Camarilla Archon vulnerable to having a wild hunt called against them? b. The ruling on Charming Lobby states that it can't be used for a bloodhunt. Does this extend to "wild hunts" as well? c. Can a minion with "The Hunt Club" use votes during a wild hunt? d. Is Absolution of the Diabolist ONLY useable for bloodhunts? e. Can Wild hunts be called against Muaziz? f. According to Gangrel Conspiracy, I can cancel a "blood hunt" called on a Gangrel Antitribu. This indicates that, in fact, blood hunts may be called on Sabbat vampires... is this true? Will this card cancel wild hunts as well? g. Can a wild hunt be called against a minion that diablerizes March Halcyon? h. Should all bloodhunt related rulings be extended to wild hunts as well? i. Are there any Sabbat cards that refer to wild hunts? Are "wild hunts" mentioned anywhere but the new rules reference card? (This last question is mostly due to ignorance and laziness... I don't feel like poking around any more than I've done already... :) I will crosspost this list of questions to one with a "Scalpel" subject heading. -spongy

David Gausebeck

>Wild Hunt and Blood Hunt are pretty much the same. Only a player with a >Sabbat vampire may call a Wild Hunt, and only a player with a Camarilla >vampire may call a Blood Hunt. However, anyone can vote on either, so >they're basically the same. Another question: If you control both Camarilla and Sabbat vampires, can you call both a blood hunt and a wild hunt? If vote cards were used up or the edge burned in the first of the two, the result of the second could be different. -Dave Gausebeck

Jon Wilkie

In article <56rn3a$p...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, gaus...@uiuc.edu (David Gausebeck) wrote: > Another question: > If you control both Camarilla and Sabbat vampires, can you call both a blood > hunt and a wild hunt? If vote cards were used up or the edge burned in the > first of the two, the result of the second could be different. Noted for the next Rules Meeting. [ quoted text not captured ]

staffan.bengtsson

>The answers to the two would clarify, for instance, the following questions: >(I would like actual answers to the following questions...) > a. Is a Camarilla Archon vulnerable to having a wild hunt called against > them? > b. The ruling on Charming Lobby states that it can't be used for a > bloodhunt. Does this extend to "wild hunts" as well? > c. Can a minion with "The Hunt Club" use votes during a wild hunt? > d. Is Absolution of the Diabolist ONLY useable for bloodhunts? > e. Can Wild hunts be called against Muaziz? > f. According to Gangrel Conspiracy, I can cancel a "blood hunt" called > on a Gangrel Antitribu. This indicates that, in fact, blood hunts > may be called on Sabbat vampires... is this true? Will this card > cancel wild hunts as well? > g. Can a wild hunt be called against a minion that diablerizes > March Halcyon? > > h. Should all bloodhunt related rulings be extended to wild hunts as well? > > i. Are there any Sabbat cards that refer to wild hunts? Are "wild hunts" > mentioned anywhere but the new rules reference card? > (This last question is mostly due to ignorance and laziness... I don't > feel like poking around any more than I've done already... :) >I will crosspost this list of questions to one with a "Scalpel" subject >heading. I am not 100% sure now when you say it, but I think Blood Hunt and Wild Hunt is the same time, you just call it different... Whenever a card say Blood Hunt or Wild Hunt, it should also mean the other.

David Pontes

On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Jon Wilkie wrote: > In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.96111...@alfa.ist.utl.pt>, > David Pontes <l41...@alfa.ist.utl.pt> wrote: > > > And I recall seeing a Sabbat card (probably a reprint) that > > referred to a Blood hunt and not a wild hunt :) > > Yet another question I can answer! Cool. > > Wild Hunt and Blood Hunt are pretty much the same. Only a player with a > Sabbat vampire may call a Wild Hunt, and only a player with a Camarilla > vampire may call a Blood Hunt. However, anyone can vote on either, so > they're basically the same. > What? Does this mean that if a player controls only non-cam or even has no minions (the last one was diablerized, for instance), he cannot call the hunt? David Pontes 8[

6-Kills

> > Wild Hunt and Blood Hunt are pretty much the same. Only a player with a > > Sabbat vampire may call a Wild Hunt, and only a player with a Camarilla > > vampire may call a Blood Hunt. However, anyone can vote on either, so > > they're basically the same. > > > > What? Does this mean that if a player controls only non-cam or > even has no minions (the last one was diablerized, for instance), he > cannot call the hunt? > > David Pontes As I understand it, Wild Hunt and Blood Hunt are two names for the same thing. I believe the Sabbat rule card says something along the lines of "Sabbat vampires are subject to Blood Hunts just as Camarilla ones, however, they call these Wild Hunts." Therefore, it's the exact same action, and the name just depends on who you talk to. There have never been any rules in the past about who can call a Blood Hunt, as I recall the rulebook says that any Methuselah may choose to do so after diablerie has been commited.

James Puzzo

staffan.bengtsson (staffan....@mailbox.swipnet.se) wrote: <Excuse me, as I snip the list of questions that I had and tack them to the end, so that people who don't care can just read the important stuff...> : I am not 100% sure now when you say it, but I think Blood Hunt and : Wild Hunt is the same time, you just call it different... : : Whenever a card say Blood Hunt or Wild Hunt, it should also mean the other. That would seem to make the most sense, to me. However, when there are Camarilla specfic cards which protect people from bloodhunts, _should_ they protect them from wild hunts as well? Is the lack of distinction because "(blood/wild)hunts" are actually called by Meth.'s who are above the distinction between Sabbat and Camarilla? -James : >The answers to the two would clarify, for instance, the following questions: [ quoted text not captured ]

George Herman

Jon Wilkie wrote: ... > > Wild Hunt and Blood Hunt are pretty much the same. Only a player with a > Sabbat vampire may call a Wild Hunt, and only a player with a Camarilla > vampire may call a Blood Hunt. However, anyone can vote on either, so > they're basically the same.... But the question is, can *both* be called for a single diablerie? (Two sets of votes on the same issue). Cheers, George

Sorrow

>But the question is, can *both* be called for a single diablerie? (Two >sets of votes on the same issue). Uh, no. Bloodhunt = Wildhunt = Bloodhunt. Once a Hunt has been called and failed, it cannot be called again, regardless of the name. And all vamps (barring special cases, eg Muaziz) are subject to a Hunt, again, regardless of the name. I think there was lack of foresight by the designers into possible confusion on the issue when they changed the name. Sorrow. [ quoted text not captured ]

Mr. Invincible

George Herman (sgam...@gis.net) wrote: : Jon Wilkie wrote: : ... : > : > Wild Hunt and Blood Hunt are pretty much the same. Only a player with a : > Sabbat vampire may call a Wild Hunt, and only a player with a Camarilla : > vampire may call a Blood Hunt. However, anyone can vote on either, so : > they're basically the same.... : But the question is, can *both* be called for a single diablerie? (Two : sets of votes on the same issue). My feeling is this: the type of hunt called should depend on the object of diablerie. If a Sabbat vampire is diablerized, a Wild Hunt should be called; if a Camarilla vampire is diablerized, a Blood Hunt should be called. Thus, Muaziz can still be the target of a Wild Hunt (Sure, as an Archon she can suck down all the Camarilla blood she wants, but as for the Sabbat...). The same goes for Archons and such. Now the question is: what about independent vampires? For the purposes of the game, I don't think it matters. I'm sure that I'm over- looking countless cards that would call this into question, but I can't think of them right now. Anyone care to jump in? : Cheers, : George -- Eric Manch (esm...@unix.amherst.edu) http://www.amherst.edu/~esmanch "Come...dry your eyes, for you are life, rarer than a quark and unpredictable beyond the dreams of Heisenberg; the clay in which the forces that shape all things leave their fingerprints most clearly." -Alan Moore, "The Watchmen"

L. Scott Johnson

George Herman <sgam...@gis.net> writes: >Jon Wilkie wrote: >> Wild Hunt and Blood Hunt are pretty much the same. Only a player with a >> Sabbat vampire may call a Wild Hunt, and only a player with a Camarilla >> vampire may call a Blood Hunt. However, anyone can vote on either, so >> they're basically the same.... >But the question is, can *both* be called for a single diablerie? (Two >sets of votes on the same issue). No - which one you call is based on the sect of the diabolist. [ quoted text not captured ]

L. Scott Johnson

Wot...@aol.com (Jon Wilkie) writes: >In article <56rn3a$p...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, gaus...@uiuc.edu (David >Gausebeck) wrote: >> Another question: >> If you control both Camarilla and Sabbat vampires, can you call both a blood >> hunt and a wild hunt? If vote cards were used up or the edge burned in the >> first of the two, the result of the second could be different. >Noted for the next Rules Meeting. I'll go ahead and let you in on what I think the resulting ruling will be: Wild Hunts are called against Sabbat vampires. Blood Hunts are called against Camarilla vampires (and Independent vampires). You cannot call a Blood Hunt against a Sabbat vampire, and you cannot call a Wild Hunt against a Non-Sabbat vampire. You may call for the appropriate hunt reqgardless of which vampires you control. (One Sabbat vampire refers to Blood Hunts in his card text - this should obviously be a reference to a Wild Hunt, in a world where proofreading and playtesting are done :-) ---- Or, clear the clutter, and eliminate the Wild Hunt altogether - just call them all a Blood Hunt and go on with the game! [ quoted text not captured ]

Homer

In article <56hsa0$8...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, "L. Scott Johnson" <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> writes >March Halcyon Pander > Capacity: 1 Disciplines: for > If March is diablerized, no one can call a Blood Hunt against the > acting vampire. > Artist: Ken Meyer, Jr. D'OH!!! ::sound of repeated forehead-slapping:: -- Homer