Hi all!
I started playing Jyhad shortly after it came out, but due to lack of
other players, soon ceased. However, now I've found a new group of
players, and have started playing again, and thus have several
questions that I hope to get answered on this newsgroup.
I have a whole bunch of questions regarding strategies or rules
for specific cards:
Charming Lobby - If I understand this card correctly, it requires
3 actions to be useful... 1 to play Charming Lobby, 1 to play the
first vote and 1 to play the second vote (which automatically
passes). Have I misunderstood something, and is there an
efficient way to use this card?
Concealed Weapon / Disguised Weapon - to me, it seems that
Disguised Weapon is in all ways superior to Concealed Weapon. Is
there any reason to use Concealed Weapon instead of Disguised
Weapon?
Wolf Companion - card text says "Does 1 damage each round of combat
during the strike resolution". Does this mean that Wolf Companion
does 1 damage even if the combat is at long range?
Sawed-off Shotgun / Chainsaw - Sawed-off Shotgun seems superior in
every way to Chainsaw, is there any reason to use Chainsaw in a
deck?
Zip Gun - I've never seen anybody use this card in a deck. Anybody
have suggestions for a way to use it effectively in a deck?
Camarilla Exemplary - If the blocker is an ally, does the blocker
then have to pay 1 life instead of 1 blood?
Rötschreck - this card seems really odd. If I understand it
correctly, the vampire who would have been sent to torpor normally
still goes to torpor, but without taking any damage. Is this correct?
Elder Library - what happens when Elder Library is burned? Does the
owner have to discard down to his new (lower) hand size immediately,
or does he just not replace the next card he plays?
Also, the example in the V:tES regarding steal blood (p. 50) seems
confusing to me, and contrary to the rule on p. 30. Could somebody
explain this to me?
Finally, what opinions do people have on Ascendance, Short Term
Investment and Protracted Investment compared to each other? In my
group, nearly nobody plays with Protracted Investments, and
Ascendance is used quite often. Or are there other cards that
are better general ways to gain pool?
Best Wishes
/Ola Mikael
--
-------------------------| \ _, "Search for the unicorn in
Ola Mikael Hansson | /*.\___ your heart, believe - and you
-------------------------| ` ( __ )\ shall find true beauty!"
dat9...@ludat.lth.se | (l (l '
dat9...@ludat.lth.se (Ola Hansson) wrote:
>Hi all!>I started playing Jyhad shortly after it came out, but due to lack of
>other players, soon ceased. However, now I've found a new group of
>players, and have started playing again, and thus have several
>questions that I hope to get answered on this newsgroup.>I have a whole bunch of questions regarding strategies or rules
>for specific cards:>Charming Lobby - If I understand this card correctly, it requires
>3 actions to be useful... 1 to play Charming Lobby, 1 to play the
>first vote and 1 to play the second vote (which automatically
>passes). Have I misunderstood something, and is there an
>efficient way to use this card?
You read it right, and unless you can untap a vamp, I've yet to see an
action-efficient way to use it.
>Concealed Weapon / Disguised Weapon - to me, it seems that
>Disguised Weapon is in all ways superior to Concealed Weapon. Is
>there any reason to use Concealed Weapon instead of Disguised
>Weapon?
If you play with a house rule making Concealed Weapon a disciplineless
card, then there are lots of reasons to play with it. Otherwise, go
with Disguised Weapon...
>Wolf Companion - card text says "Does 1 damage each round of combat
>during the strike resolution". Does this mean that Wolf Companion
>does 1 damage even if the combat is at long range?
No. See Rules Team Ruling and errata....
>Sawed-off Shotgun / Chainsaw - Sawed-off Shotgun seems superior in
>every way to Chainsaw, is there any reason to use Chainsaw in a
>deck?
Aesthetics...
.
>Zip Gun - I've never seen anybody use this card in a deck. Anybody
>have suggestions for a way to use it effectively in a deck?
Zip Gun + Dragon's Breath Rounds seems to be the sinlge most abusive
combo, but any use of ammunition makes them very effective
.
>Camarilla Exemplary - If the blocker is an ally, does the blocker
>then have to pay 1 life instead of 1 blood?
No.
>Rötschreck - this card seems really odd. If I understand it
>correctly, the vampire who would have been sent to torpor normally
>still goes to torpor, but without taking any damage. Is this correct?
This has bounced back and forth several times... Perhaps LSJ can give
the latest official ruling on this. L. Scott, please include some
examples with your response. The wording of rulings on tricky card
text can be tricky, themselves...
>Elder Library - what happens when Elder Library is burned? Does the
>owner have to discard down to his new (lower) hand size immediately,
>or does he just not replace the next card he plays?
Hand size is immediately reduced, and player must discard a card of
their choice...
>Also, the example in the V:tES regarding steal blood (p. 50) seems
>confusing to me, and contrary to the rule on p. 30. Could somebody
>explain this to me?
The example comes in the advanced rules section, whereas the rule you
cite is in the Basic Game Rules (which don't involve Torpor). In a
full-fledged game of V:tES, vamps don't burn when they have all their
blood stolen.
>Finally, what opinions do people have on Ascendance, Short Term
>Investment and Protracted Investment compared to each other? In my
>group, nearly nobody plays with Protracted Investments, and
>Ascendance is used quite often. Or are there other cards that
>are better general ways to gain pool?
Going strictly by card cost, add up the blood return from three Short
Terms, and compare to the blood return from one Protracted... You get
three additional blood with the former, but it ties up two additional
card slots. Most people who play Investments in my group opt for
Shorties. Ascendance is nice, but there are just so many better ways
to gain pool, and master slots are valuable in any deck...I tend not
to use them. The Sabbat artwork may change my mind, though ;-)
Regards,
R. David Zopf
guenh...@mindspring.com
"This argument reeks of Kant, or whiskey, or both...."
Ola Hansson wrote:
> Charming Lobby - If I understand this card correctly, it requires
> 3 actions to be useful... 1 to play Charming Lobby, 1 to play the
> first vote and 1 to play the second vote (which automatically
> passes). Have I misunderstood something, and is there an
> efficient way to use this card?
No, you haven't missed anything. It compares to Cryptic Rider in
that: it requires an extra action and Presence, but doesn't cost
a blood. And it gives you two additional votes at superior.
> Concealed Weapon / Disguised Weapon - to me, it seems that
> Disguised Weapon is in all ways superior to Concealed Weapon. Is
> there any reason to use Concealed Weapon instead of Disguised
> Weapon?
No. This is why Concealed Weapon was not reprinted in VtES.
> Wolf Companion - card text says "Does 1 damage each round of combat
> during the strike resolution". Does this mean that Wolf Companion
> does 1 damage even if the combat is at long range?
No, because it doesn't do 'R' damage.
> Sawed-off Shotgun / Chainsaw - Sawed-off Shotgun seems superior in
> every way to Chainsaw, is there any reason to use Chainsaw in a
> deck?
No. This is why Chainsaw was not reprinted in VtES.
> Zip Gun - I've never seen anybody use this card in a deck. Anybody
> have suggestions for a way to use it effectively in a deck?
Use Dragon's Breath rounds with it.
> Camarilla Exemplary - If the blocker is an ally, does the blocker
> then have to pay 1 life instead of 1 blood?
No. Allies ignore all 'burn blood' effects.
> Rötschreck - this card seems really odd. If I understand it
> correctly, the vampire who would have been sent to torpor normally
> still goes to torpor, but without taking any damage. Is this correct?
That's how it reads, but the Rules Team has errataed the card to work
the other way. The vampire who attempts to deal aggravated damage
goes to torpor.
> Elder Library - what happens when Elder Library is burned? Does the
> owner have to discard down to his new (lower) hand size immediately,
> or does he just not replace the next card he plays?
Any time your hand size is reduced, you immediately discard down to
your new maximum hand size.
> Also, the example in the V:tES regarding steal blood (p. 50) seems
> confusing to me, and contrary to the rule on p. 30. Could somebody
> explain this to me?
Strike: Steal Blood moves blood from the target to the striker.
It cannot move more blood than the target has. And if the newly
acquired blood puts the striker above capacity, then the striker
burns the blood in excess of capacity.
Stealing Blood never burns the target vampire (except in the Basic
game), nor is it considered damage.
--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@regency.wizards.com)
Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
(*) - Subject to review by Rules Team
Hi LSJ,
Hope I catch you with this one before you go. Have a good week off :)
> Strike: Steal Blood moves blood from the target to the striker.
> It cannot move more blood than the target has. And if the newly
> acquired blood puts the striker above capacity, then the striker
> burns the blood in excess of capacity.
>
> Stealing Blood never burns the target vampire (except in the Basic
> game), nor is it considered damage.
>
So if a steal blood strike is used against an Ally / Retainer, than the
stolen blood costs the Ally / Retainer life, but is not considered damage.
Is this correct?
Algustas
--
Good, bad, I'm the guy with the mouse...
Algustas wrote:
> Hope I catch you with this one before you go. Have a good week off :)
Thanks.
> > Stealing Blood [is] never ... considered damage.>
> So if a steal blood strike is used against an Ally / Retainer, than the
> stolen blood costs the Ally / Retainer life, but is not considered damage.
> Is this correct?
Correct. And stealing the last life of an Ally or Retainer
burns the Ally or Retainer, of course.
[ quoted text not captured ]
L. Scott Johnson wrote:
>
> Ola Hansson wrote:
<stuff chopped out>
> > Concealed Weapon / Disguised Weapon - to me, it seems that
> > Disguised Weapon is in all ways superior to Concealed Weapon. Is
> > there any reason to use Concealed Weapon instead of Disguised
> > Weapon?
>
> No. This is why Concealed Weapon was not reprinted in VtES.
>
My group, and several others ive seen, play concealed weapon as a
disciplineless card. Allowing non-obfuscating people to bring in small
guns and swords in combat. Naturally this gets mildly abused with people
using it to equip with things without taking the action, however, we
find that it works quite well.
> > Zip Gun - I've never seen anybody use this card in a deck. Anybody
> > have suggestions for a way to use it effectively in a deck?
>
> Use Dragon's Breath rounds with it.
Oh my! Zip guns are deadly in the right hands! Anyone with superior
celerity can make those things talk. All you need is an ammo card and a
sideslip and a blur.
> > Camarilla Exemplary - If the blocker is an ally, does the blocker
> > then have to pay 1 life instead of 1 blood?
>
> No. Allies ignore all 'burn blood' effects.
Ahh, LSJ I have been meaning to ask about this, isnt the wording of
this blanket ruling a little dangerous? Isnt Blood to Water a burn blood
effect? (more work because now you have to go through and define 'burn
blood effects')
> > Rötschreck - this card seems really odd. If I understand it
> > correctly, the vampire who would have been sent to torpor normally
> > still goes to torpor, but without taking any damage. Is this correct?
>
> That's how it reads, but the Rules Team has errataed the card to work
> the other way. The vampire who attempts to deal aggravated damage
> goes to torpor.
Yeah, go figure. The gangrel pops their claws and says 'Oh my god!
those things are dangerous, eeekk!'
La La La-La-La La, La La La-La La.
Ola Hansson wrote:
>
> I have a whole bunch of questions regarding strategies or rules
> for specific cards:
>> Concealed Weapon / Disguised Weapon - to me, it seems that
> Disguised Weapon is in all ways superior to Concealed Weapon. Is
> there any reason to use Concealed Weapon instead of Disguised
> Weapon?
>
You're right. A lot of people have suggested making CW a non-discipline
card which would certainly make it useful, but as it is it simply cannot
match DW.
> Sawed-off Shotgun / Chainsaw - Sawed-off Shotgun seems superior in> every way to Chainsaw, is there any reason to use Chainsaw in a
> deck?
>
The Jyhad version of Chainsaw is pretty useless as you point out. The
Sabbat version - Gas-powered Chainsaw - fixes this as it is now a melee
weapon, which means you can play +x damage strike modifiers on top of
your chainsaw strike.
> Zip Gun - I've never seen anybody use this card in a deck. Anybody
> have suggestions for a way to use it effectively in a deck?
>
Very useful card! It's a maneuver for one thing! And the first time it's
used it's a concealed weapon. Use it with Dragon Breath rounds to make
it a very nasty surprise.
> Camarilla Exemplary - If the blocker is an ally, does the blocker
> then have to pay 1 life instead of 1 blood?
>
No the card specifically says if a "vampire blocks..:" That means
non-vampire minions are not affected by the card.
> Elder Library - what happens when Elder Library is burned? Does the
> owner have to discard down to his new (lower) hand size immediately,
> or does he just not replace the next card he plays?
>
If I'm not mistaken: immediately discard down to current hand size.
> Finally, what opinions do people have on Ascendance, Short Term
> Investment and Protracted Investment compared to each other? In my
> group, nearly nobody plays with Protracted Investments, and
> Ascendance is used quite often. Or are there other cards that
> are better general ways to gain pool?
>
Blood Dolls with hunting grounds obviously. Supplied with 5th Tradition,
Restoration or steal blood cards when possible. A very neat combo is
Blood Doll (or multiple if you allow this), The Rack and Secure Haven.
Minion Tap + 5th Tradition is also a classic. Some "political" decks use
the following strategy. Pool drainers like Anarche Troublemaker,
Antediluvian Awakening and Kine Resources Contested combined with fast
pool gainers like Minion Tap/Blood Dolls + 5th Tradition + Voter's
Captivation will usually dry everyone out very fast and leave you as the
sole survivor due to the pool gaining scheme. Be careful of timing,
however as you risk loosing victory points to players who exploit the
shared pool draining by killing their prey easily.
regards
--
Brian Rasmussen
Dansk Data Elektronik A/S Tel.: (+45) 42 84 84 33 (589)
Herlev Hovedgade 199 Fax : (+45) 42 84 52 20
DK-2730 Herlev, Denmark e-mail: b...@dde.dk
James B. Floate wrote:
> L. Scott Johnson wrote:
> > Allies ignore all 'burn blood' effects.
> Ahh, LSJ I have been meaning to ask about this, isnt the wording of
> this blanket ruling a little dangerous? Isnt Blood to Water a burn blood
> effect? (more work because now you have to go through and define 'burn
> blood effects')
Blood to Water is a burn blood effect if the opposing minion is
a vampire (card text).
If the opposing minion is an ally, it is a burn minion effect :-)
[ quoted text not captured ]
>Charming Lobby - Have I misunderstood something, and is there an>efficient way to use this card?
You understand perfectly. However, the card can be useful in rare circumstances; basically, if you need two extra votes, and if you have an ally with a good vote that he couldn't pass by himself for some reason; it's the next vote called that passes, not necessarily your next vote.
>Concealed Weapon / Disguised Weapon - Is there any reason to use >Concealed Weapon instead of Disguised Weapon?
Supposedly Concealed Weapon was meant to have no discipline but someone messed up.
>Wolf Companion - Does this mean that Wolf Companion>does 1 damage even if the combat is at long range?
No. The damage is not ranged.
>Sawed-off Shotgun / Chainsaw - Is there any reason to use >Chainsaw in a deck?
Five words: Texas Chainsaw Massacre Theme Deck.
Otherwise, no.
>Zip Gun - I've never seen anybody use this card in a deck. Anybody
>have suggestions for a way to use it effectively in a deck?
Dragon Breath or celerity with ranged attacks (that is, do nothing first round, press, go long with gun, shoot, blur, car, car, take 9).
>Rötschreck - Is this correct?
According to text, yes. However it now affects the user, not the receiver.
>Elder Library - what happens when Elder Library is burned?
You must always draw/discard enough cards to reach your maximum hand size immediately upon it changing.
>Also, the example in the V:tES regarding steal blood (p. 50) seems
>confusing to me, and contrary to the rule on p. 30. Could somebody
>explain this to me?
I'm not sure which one you mean, but the rulebook itself is dislikable IMHO, so I'll give you the rule.
Strike: Steal X blood:
Transfer X blood from the opposing target to the user of the strike. If there is not enough blood, transfer only what is there. This will kill an ally/retainer that is reduced to zero blood, but not a vampire. Stolen blood may be lost immediately to damage unless the damage was dealt with First Strike.
>Finally, what opinions do people have on Ascendance, Short Term
>Investment and Protracted Investment compared to each other?
Ascendance is 1 blood for nothing with no time.
Short Term is 3 blood for 1. Net gain 2, three masters required.
Protracted is 6 blood for 3. Net gain 3, six masters required.
IMHO Short Terms are the best of the three because they have medium gain and medium waiting period. Protracted have high cost and take too long, and Ascendances are sort of pointless. OTOH, I play with Ascendances because they're immediate and free.
---
In article <338437...@regency.wizards.com>,
L. Scott Johnson <vte...@regency.wizards.com> wrote:
>Ola Hansson wrote:
<SNIP - A whole bunch of questions answered :) >
>> Also, the example in the V:tES regarding steal blood (p. 50) seems
>> confusing to me, and contrary to the rule on p. 30. Could somebody
>> explain this to me?>>Strike: Steal Blood moves blood from the target to the striker.
>It cannot move more blood than the target has. And if the newly
>acquired blood puts the striker above capacity, then the striker
>burns the blood in excess of capacity.
>
>Stealing Blood never burns the target vampire (except in the Basic
>game), nor is it considered damage.
>>--
>L. Scott Johnson (vte...@regency.wizards.com)
>Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
>(*) - Subject to review by Rules Team
Well, that was not what I wondered about. To be more precise, the use
of newly stolen blood to heal / not heal wounds is what confuses me.
Quoting the VtES rulebook, p.30:
"The stolen blood will also heal the vampire immediately. This blood
can be burned by damage that is not dealt with First Strike."
Then... in the immediately following example at p.31:
"Eliza can use the stolen blood to absorb the damage and is not burned."
Then, on p. 50-51, in Further Examples of Combat:
"Despite the fact that Eliza has 3 blood points, the third point can't
be used to heal damage (since it was just stolen)."
The same seemingly (to me at least) contradiction is alsy present in
the Jyhad rules / examples. At p. 36, in the Jyhad rulebook, it says:
"A vampire heals wounds after stealing blood, unless the damage was
dealt to him or her with First Strike."
Then in the example, further down on the same page:
"If Ebanezer were injured on this round of combat so that he had an
unhealed wound and only the one stolen blood on his card, the stolen
blood could not be used to heal and Ebanezer would go to torpor with
one blood."
In none of those examples did I manage to find a mention of any of
the two vampires using First Strike, so if I understand the rule
correctly, the stolen blood should have been usable to heal. However,
as the same type of example are present both in the Jyhad rulesbook,
and in the Advanced Game part of the VtES rulesbook, I fear I have
missed something. Could anybody explain what the rules regarding
stealing blood and then needing to heal are? Are the examples wrong,
are the rules (in VtES and Jyhad) wrong, or am I misunderstanding
something in a disastrous way?
Thanks !
/Ola Mikael... with more questions surely coming soon :)
[ quoted text not captured ]
L. Scott Johnson wrote:
> Blood to Water is a burn blood effect if the opposing minion is
> a vampire (card text).
>
> If the opposing minion is an ally, it is a burn minion effect :-)
Heh,heh :) . Well done.
James B.
[ quoted text not captured ]
My understanding is that stolen blood can be used to heal damage. First
stolen blood is transfered and held by the thief up to capacity, then
damage is paid for. So if you had blood taken away then it isn't there
to heal with, but if you took someone else's blood you may be able to
pay for damage you couldn't otherwise have paid for. Does this help
clarify?
--
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tolerated. this computer is attatched to a printer with a fax
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In article <338568...@dde.dk>, Brian Rasmussen <b...@dde.dk> writes
>Very useful card! It's a maneuver for one thing! And the first time it's
>used it's a concealed weapon. Use it with Dragon Breath rounds to make
>it a very nasty surprise.
^^^^^
Shouldn't that be a very *tedious* surprise? It's been used sooooooooo
often, it's almost as cliched as a Gangrel Claw deck.
:-)
--
Pax Vobiscum
Justin Grace
In article <5m74kr$h3i$1...@news.lth.se>,
dat9...@ludat.lth.se (Ola Hansson) wrote:
> Well, that was not what I wondered about. To be more precise, the use
> of newly stolen blood to heal / not heal wounds is what confuses me.
>> Then, on p. 50-51, in Further Examples of Combat:
> "Despite the fact that Eliza has 3 blood points, the third point can't
> be used to heal damage (since it was just stolen)."
The example (pp. 50-51) is in error - sorry (I had read it incorrectly).
(Sorry also to whomever I e-mailed a similar answer to).
Eliza remains ready, with zero blood, since she is able to burn 3 blood
to heal the three damage (even though one point of the three blood came
from the steal blood strike).
[ quoted text not captured ]