Tomb-questions...again!

Can anybody help me out here? This is may very well be a dumb question: Does the vampire "using" the Tomb enter the controlled region at full capacity? This was somewhat of a debate last saturday because the new cardtext doesn't say that. It merely says that the vampire is moved to the controlled region when the number of counters on the Tomb and the vampire are equal to or exceed the vampires capacity. Of course the only way to get a vampire in play is at full capacity not accounting for Possesion(nec). In the way we play the Tomb the vampire comes into play at full capacity, but there's also something to say for the alternative way. Someone...?? Tim Eijpe time...@freemail.nl "This message will selfdestruct in 10 seconds" Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

t_e...@my-deja.com wrote in message <7op2si$53b$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>... >Can anybody help me out here? >This is may very well be a dumb question: > >Does the vampire "using" the Tomb enter the controlled region at full >capacity? >This was somewhat of a debate last saturday because the new cardtext >doesn't say that. It merely says that the vampire is moved to the >controlled region when the number of counters on the Tomb and the >vampire are equal to or exceed the vampires capacity. > The vampire may be moved to the controlled region when Tomb Counters and Blood equal its capacity. Effectively, the vamp would come out at half capacity, rounded up for odd cap vampires. You can opt to not bring them into play, if you so choose. It isn't _mandatory_ to bring up a vamp until it is full on Blood counters. Say, if you wanted a fifth point of blood on the Prince of Gastonia, because your predator brought Muddles into play (and you without a different means of defense), you could do so... >In the way we play the Tomb the vampire comes into play at full >capacity, but there's also something to say for the alternative way. > That's pretty much the way it originally worked... It got toned down in errata to have its effect balance its cost. Regards, R. David Zopf Atom Weaver (& V:EKN Prince of Charlotte, NC)

t_e...@my-deja.com wrote: > Does the vampire "using" the Tomb enter the controlled region at full > capacity? Typically, no. Although the Methuselah may ignore the Tomb and wait until the number of counters on the uncontrolled vampire equal his capacity before bringing him out to the Ready region. > This was somewhat of a debate last saturday because the new cardtext > doesn't say that. It merely says that the vampire is moved to the > controlled region when the number of counters on the Tomb and the > vampire are equal to or exceed the vampires capacity. Correct. The counters on the Tomb (and the Tomb itself) are burned when the vampire leaves the uncontrolled region. > Of course the only way to get a vampire in play is at full capacity not > accounting for Possesion(nec). And not accounting for Tomb of Ramses, The Third Tradition, The Embrace, Creation Rites, and Illusions of Kindred (and a few other cases involving Banishment). The idea that cards break the rules is a part of the game. Tomb breaks the rules regarding how many counters must be on a vampire before he can be moved from the Uncontrolled region to the Ready region. -- LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) V:TES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/rules.asp

Richard Zopf wrote: > it is full on Blood counters. Say, if you wanted a fifth point of blood on > the Prince of Gastonia, > Prince of Gastonia comes into play with an Assault Rifle, correct? :) Rob Grau rfg...@eos.ncsu.edu

Thanx for the "rapid thought" So it wasn't a "dumb" question! But still the cards on which the cards take precedence over the rules are sometimes really debatable, especially when contradicting the basic game mechanics(merely my opinion). Tim [ quoted text not captured ]

t_e...@my-deja.com wrote: > > Thanx for the "rapid thought" > > So it wasn't a "dumb" question! But still the cards on which the cards > take precedence over the rules are sometimes really debatable, > especially when contradicting the basic game mechanics(merely my > opinion). The Tomb only "contradicts" the rule regarding how many blood counters must be "on" a vampire before he can be controlled (by allowing him to be controlled with fewer counters "on" him if there are enough counters on the Tomb - not the vampire - to make up the difference). That basic game mechanic (move from uncontrolled to ready once the number of counters "on the vampire" equal his capacity) is altered by Tomb. The rules (Jyhad booklet, V:TES booklet and Revised Rulebook) do not say that the vampire enters the Ready Region "full" - only that he keeps the counters that were on him. That basic game mechanic is not altered by Tomb. [ quoted text not captured ]

Rob Grau wrote in message <37B02315...@eos.ncsu.edu>... >Richard Zopf wrote: > >> it is full on Blood counters. Say, if you wanted a fifth point of blood on >> the Prince of Gastonia, >> >Prince of Gastonia comes into play with an Assault Rifle, correct? :) > Yep. And if the recipient of the title is a Caitiff, he also gets a Vehicle: Muscle Truck ;-) [ quoted text not captured ]

David and Rob wrote: > >> the Prince of Gastonia... > >Prince of Gastonia comes into play with an Assault Rifle, correct? :) > Yep. And if the recipient of the title is a Caitiff, he also gets a > Vehicle: Muscle Truck ;-) For those of your unfamiliar, Muscle Truck is a "vehicle." A minion may only have one "vehicle" at a time. -Heslin No, it doesn't do anything... why do you ask?

On VTES-L, "....salem...." wrote: > [LSJ wrote:] > >[t_e...@my-deja.com wrote:] > >> Of course the only way to get a vampire in play is at full capacity not > >> accounting for Possesion(nec). > > > >And not accounting for Tomb of Ramses, The Third Tradition, The Embrace, > >Creation Rites, and Illusions of Kindred (and a few other cases > >involving Banishment). > > ummm...wouldn't the vamp still have to be at full capacity to leave the > uncontrolled region with third trad and the banishment cases? The Third Tradition is Progeny. A Progeny can be put into play as an action (not from the uncontrolled region) without moving any blood to him, meaning that he "gets into play" at less than full capacity. For Banishement, let the Banished vampire be a Brujah who has seized Praxis: Rome. In the uncontrolled region, the PS doesn't boost his capacity. So when he comes out (and the PS again takes effect), he'll have one less blood than his capacity allows. He "gets into play" at less than full capacity. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ wrote: > For Banishement, let the Banished vampire be a Brujah who has seized > Praxis: Rome. In the uncontrolled region, the PS doesn't boost his > capacity. So when he comes out (and the PS again takes effect), he'll have > one less blood than his capacity allows. He "gets into play" at less than > full capacity. Scratch that - the PS card is no longer in play, so the title is lost when the vampire is Banished. Have to use a card in play, like a Camarilla Vitae Slave on a banished Lasombra. [ quoted text not captured ]