rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Chainsaw and misc.

7 messages from 6 participants · 19 December 1995 – 24 December 1995
original thread on Google Groups

David H. Pennell

First of all, my most persistent house rule will be that Chainsaw is a melee weapon. Not having something like that makes it the card most properly label- led wallpaper. Also think Rampage should have stealth generally, unless there are bad locations i don't know about. Why be sensible and correct Concealed Weapon(no discipline) and Blood Rage (thaumaturgy, not fortitude), then stick stubbornly on Chainsaw? It fits a graded pattern of melee weapons. Especially since it is less common than a shotgun. Even Talbot's is after all a rare, so if it is some problem with chainsaws make 'em both melee. Or say Talbot's is too unwieldy. Also, isn't it excessive to make computer hack work on anyone? Now no one will trade you for a Cat Burglary, just snicker at you. And is Ro"tschreck finally fixed? I hope it is back to the card being okay as it stands (a minion tries to do agg damage to a vampire, Ro"tschreck is played, and the vampire goes to torpor). It was not a destabilizing card, considering it can't be played in your turn. What are the rules about old Hawgs? Are the "new" Hawgs godlike by accident (endless presses) and the old ones sad, or do they both play the same? If you have Rowan rings, I guess they are banned from official tournaments, which makes me think that unofficial tournaments are probably more fun and less oriented towards $$$. Let's see, we'll just make Cat Burglary, Chainsaw, Rowan Ring, the Stake, Ro"tschreck, and a few others useless -- for no obvious reason. Finally I have a question. Does Undead Persistence give an automatic Trap? It could be read "has an optional press and won't go into torpor" {both} until combat ends or three rounds pass without cards ... or it could be read that it has one optional press (after which, failing more presses, combat ends) and it won't go into torpor until combat does end or three rounds pass without cards. Which is it? If I hit a little minion for 4 damage, can it just sit there and throw an occasional card in, taking all the non-ag damage in the world, and without a press out the largest vampire is automatically torpored? IE Joe IC with 5 discipline cards on him (capacity 16) and ten flack jackets tries to hit rufina soledad with his assault rifle ... pow! she plays undead persistence ... uh oh ... now, by throwing in an indomitability or skin of rock or unflinching persistence every 3 turns, she extends combat for 25 rounds .. ouch! In torpor. Also, is she going to torpor or not going to torpor? can she play pulled fangs after preventing damage with a few fort cards (thereby burning Joe I.C. instead of torporing him)? Even a handful of dodges would give a Caitiff 24 rounds of combat (in only 18 of which actual damage would be inflicted). In summary, my Xmas Jyhad wish list: 1. Restore the ability to use Rowan Rings and the old Stake if you have them. Paralysis is not rocket science. 2. Give the old Hawgs the new ability or modify both. 3. Keep computer hacking just a bleed increaser. 4. Make chainsaw a melee weapon after all. 5. Clarify Undead Persistence. dhp

Daniel Hoffman

>First of all, my most persistent house rule will be that Chainsaw is a melee >weapon. Not having something like that makes it the card most properly label- >led wallpaper. I feel the correct interpretation of Chainsaw should be melee weapon, +2 hand damage and only usable once per combat. Only under these house rules would I use a chainsaw. >Why be sensible and correct Concealed Weapon(no discipline) They didn't. They got rid of it. Chainsaw too. >And is Rotschreck finally fixed? Got rid of it. >What are the rules about old Hawgs? Are the "new" Hawgs godlike by accident >(endless presses) and the old ones sad, or do they both play the same? A hawg is still a hawg, misprinted in both editions.

James R. McClure Jr.

fs...@merlin.acf-lab.alaska.edu (David H. Pennell) wrote: >First of all, my most persistent house rule will be that Chainsaw is a melee >weapon. Not having something like that makes it the card most properly label- >led wallpaper. Also think Rampage should have stealth generally, unless there >are bad locations i don't know about. Peace David, I agree; Chainsaw is either a melee weapon or wallpaper. Rampage does have the samall advantage of replacing before combat. >Also, isn't it excessive to make computer hack work on anyone? Now no >one will trade you for a Cat Burglary, just snicker at you. Doesn't CB have +1 stealth? I don't have one. >And is Ro"tschreck finally fixed? I hope it is back to the card being okay >as it stands (a minion tries to do agg damage to a vampire, Ro"tschreck is >played, and the vampire goes to torpor). It was not a destabilizing card, >considering it can't be played in your turn. No, Roetschreck still hoses the dealing vamp. >What are the rules about old Hawgs? Are the "new" Hawgs godlike by accident >(endless presses) and the old ones sad, or do they both play the same? New Hawgs are misprints. Errataed to say one press per combat, I believe. >Finally I have a question. Does Undead Persistence give an automatic Trap? [big UP spiel omitted] No. UP gives one optional press, that is all. You will need to provide additional presses (a Trap, perhaps) to prolong combat "indefinitely". Nil carborundum illigitimi, James R. McClure Jr. The OS/2 Apostle <insert disclaimer here>

Nicole Janine Purvis

James R. McClure Jr. (jmcc...@e-mail.kdp-baptist.louisville.edu) wrote: : I agree; Chainsaw is either a melee weapon or wallpaper. Rampage does have : the samall advantage of replacing before combat. Doesn't every action that requires a clan or discipline get replaced before combat? It's only undisciplined ones like Arson that aren't replaced, right? : >Also, isn't it excessive to make computer hack work on anyone? Now no : >one will trade you for a Cat Burglary, just snicker at you. : Doesn't CB have +1 stealth? I don't have one. Indeed it does--if I had a spare, I'd trde with you, but I play with all THREE of mine. That +1 stealth makes it a lot better than Hacking, even if you need Celerity and can't direct it [unless superior]. I don't get it. The guy is downing CB, someone else was telling me how Body of Sun is useless; I play games and occasionally win with these cards--how can they be so bad? -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | "What is a man without the beasts? If the beasts were gone, | | man would die from a great loneliness of spirit." | | "Confuse, annoy, and dee-STROY!!" Call me "Nicole" and I | | npu...@tiger.lsu.edu -- Jet...@aol.com will have to kill you. | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

L. Scott Johnson

fs...@merlin.acf-lab.alaska.edu (David H. Pennell) writes: >Why be sensible and correct Concealed Weapon(no discipline) and Blood Rage >(thaumaturgy, not fortitude), then stick stubbornly on Chainsaw? It fits a >graded pattern of melee weapons. Especially since it is less common than a >shotgun. Even Talbot's is after all a rare, so if it is some problem >with chainsaws make 'em both melee. Or say Talbot's is too unwieldy. An easier change is to make it say 'once per round' instead of 'once per turn', and is easier to explain as a mistake in the editting process, but the 'melee' house rule is quite popular. >Also, isn't it excessive to make computer hack work on anyone? Now no >one will trade you for a Cat Burglary, just snicker at you. Quite right. Although Cat Burglary comes with stealth. Still, it is hard to read the original rules and come up with the omni-directability imparted to the (D) symbol by the Rules Team. >And is Ro"tschreck finally fixed? I hope it is back to the card being okay >as it stands (a minion tries to do agg damage to a vampire, Ro"tschreck is >played, and the vampire goes to torpor). It was not a destabilizing card, >considering it can't be played in your turn. No. Rotschreck still plays counter to wording and nomeclature. >What are the rules about old Hawgs? Are the "new" Hawgs godlike by accident >(endless presses) and the old ones sad, or do they both play the same? No errata has been issued yet. But the way the current rulings are coming down ("We meant for it to work the way it was printed"), don't look for it to change soon. (cf. Force of Will) >Finally I have a question. Does Undead Persistence give an automatic Trap? No. One optional press. Any further presses must be supplied by the combatants (or other cards -like Trap). The minion is simply capable of lasting until three rounds are up, not necessarily granted the ability to give chase. >torpor. Also, is she going to torpor or not going to torpor? can she play Not going to torpor. (Until the time limit is expiring). >2. Give the old Hawgs the new ability or modify both. The New Hawg's text is applied to the old Hawg already. But it still needs 'once per combat' errata. >3. Keep computer hacking just a bleed increaser. Good luck. I've not convinced WotC in over a year of pushing this logic. >4. Make chainsaw a melee weapon after all. Never happen. >5. Clarify Undead Persistence. Clarification has been given, but better wording would be nice in a new printing. (Did WotC fix this text in VtES? I don't know). -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | These opinions are mine and http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | are subject to card text. Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |

James R. McClure Jr.

npu...@tiger.lsu.edu (Nicole Janine Purvis) wrote: >James R. McClure Jr. (jmcc...@e-mail.kdp-baptist.louisville.edu) wrote: >: I agree; Chainsaw is either a melee weapon or wallpaper. Rampage does have >: the samall advantage of replacing before combat. > Doesn't every action that requires a clan or discipline get replaced >before combat? It's only undisciplined ones like Arson that aren't >replaced, right? Peace Nicole, Uh, yes, that is what I was saying - Rampage replaces, Arson does not. >: >Also, isn't it excessive to make computer hack work on anyone? Now no >: >one will trade you for a Cat Burglary, just snicker at you. >: Doesn't CB have +1 stealth? I don't have one. > Indeed it does--if I had a spare, I'd trde with you, but I play with >all THREE of mine. That +1 stealth makes it a lot better than Hacking, >even if you need Celerity and can't direct it [unless superior]. > I don't get it. The guy is downing CB, someone else was telling me how >Body of Sun is useless; I play games and occasionally win with these >cards--how can they be so bad? They aren't. I wouldn't mind having a couple of BoSs myself (currently zero). Some people will complain about any card, no matter how useful it is. BoS is extra useful now that DS includes a "only affected by ranged aggr dam" retainer. [ quoted text not captured ]

Thomas R Wylie

David H. Pennell <fs...@merlin.acf-lab.alaska.edu> wrote: >Also, isn't it excessive to make computer hack work on anyone? Now no >one will trade you for a Cat Burglary, just snicker at you. Cat Burglarly should work like the VTES version, i.e., it gives Celerity a way to bleed with (minor) stealth. >And is Ro"tschreck finally fixed? I hope it is back to the card being okay >as it stands (a minion tries to do agg damage to a vampire, Ro"tschreck is >played, and the vampire goes to torpor). It was not a destabilizing card, >considering it can't be played in your turn. Rotschreck is going to have errata issued to make it clear that it hoses the vampire trying to do the aggravated damage. >What are the rules about old Hawgs? Are the "new" Hawgs godlike by accident >(endless presses) and the old ones sad, or do they both play the same? They're an accident; they should give one press per combat. >If you have Rowan rings, I guess they are banned from official tournaments, >which makes me think that unofficial tournaments are probably more fun and >less oriented towards $$$. They are only banned in official tournaments because paralyze was dropped for VTES. Unofficial tournaments are certainly free to use them. >Finally I have a question. Does Undead Persistence give an automatic Trap? >It could be read "has an optional press and won't go into torpor" {both} >until combat ends or three rounds pass without cards ... or it could be >read that it has one optional press (after which, failing more presses, >combat ends) and it won't go into torpor until combat does end or three >rounds pass without cards. Which is it?... It only provides one press. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.