Questionn about baron and previous votes

hello if mata hari becomes baron she gets 4 or only 2 votes thx

[ quoted text not captured ] Hi, only two, the 2 votes she already has is itself a title. Remember, she cannot became anarch by herself, because she is already a title vampire, once she becames anarch she will lose her votes and will be a valid target to became an anarch Baron. Also note that: - an independent vampire cannot recieve the baron title while he is not anarch - titled vampires cannot "change" into anarch as a non-titled vampire (through the +1 stealth action) - a laibon, sabbat or camarilla non-titled vampire can take the action to became anarch - a non-titled vampire that has "additional votes" recieved by other means (legendary vampire, Black Hand Emissary, Emergency Powers, Political Struggle, Kduva's Mask, Lyndhurst Estate, etc) does not count as a titled vampire and those votes do not count as title, so he will add this votes to his title. Ricardo Marta Prince of Lisboa Portugal

Powerlord wrote: > On 3 Dez, 13:46, Luis Espejo <lhesp...@gmail.com> wrote: >> hello >> if mata hari becomes baron >> she gets 4 or only 2 votes >> >> thx > > Hi, only two, the 2 votes she already has is itself a title. > > Remember, she cannot became anarch by herself, because she is already > a title vampire, once she becames anarch she will lose her votes and > will be a valid target to became an anarch Baron. When she becomes Anarch, she remains Independent and keeps her title. And, as an anarch, she is a valid target to become a Baron. If she receives the title of Baron, she'll lose her old "2 votes" title. > Also note that: > - an independent vampire cannot recieve the baron title while he is > not anarch > - titled vampires cannot "change" into anarch as a non-titled vampire > (through the +1 stealth action) > - a laibon, sabbat or camarilla non-titled vampire can take the action > to became anarch Also, an Independent non-titled vampire can. That is, any non-titled vampire can, regardless of sect. > - a non-titled vampire that has "additional votes" recieved by other > means (legendary vampire, Black Hand Emissary, Emergency Powers, > Political Struggle, Kduva's Mask, Lyndhurst Estate, etc) does not > count as a titled vampire and those votes do not count as title, so he > will add this votes to his title. Correct.

On 3 Dez, 14:33, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Powerlord wrote: > > On 3 Dez, 13:46, Luis Espejo <lhesp...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> hello > >> if mata hari becomes baron > >> she gets 4 or only 2 votes > > >> thx > > > Hi, only two, the 2 votes she already has is itself a title. > > > Remember, she cannot became anarch by herself, because she is already > > a title vampire, once she becames anarch she will lose her votes and > > will be a valid target to became an anarch Baron. > > When she becomes Anarch, she remains Independent and keeps her title. > And, as an anarch, she is a valid target to become a Baron. If she receives the > title of Baron, she'll lose her old "2 votes" title. Are you saying that any independent titled vampire can take a +1 stealth action to became anarch, or that if by any chance the independent titled vampire becames anarch (through Anarch Convert, Jack Drake or Twilight Camp) he does not looses his current independent title? > > > Also note that: > > - an independent vampire cannot recieve the baron title while he is > > not anarch > > - titled vampires cannot "change" into anarch as a non-titled vampire > > (through the +1 stealth action) > > - a laibon, sabbat or camarilla non-titled vampire can take the action > > to became anarch > > Also, an Independent non-titled vampire can. > That is, any non-titled vampire can, regardless of sect. I assumed it on the first sentence [ quoted text not captured ]

On Dec 3, 3:41 pm, Powerlord <powerlord...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 3 Dez, 14:33, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Powerlord wrote: > > > On 3 Dez, 13:46, Luis Espejo <lhesp...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> hello > > >> if mata hari becomes baron > > >> she gets 4 or only 2 votes > > > >> thx > > > > Hi, only two, the 2 votes she already has is itself a title. > > > > Remember, she cannot became anarch by herself, because she is already > > > a title vampire, once she becames anarch she will lose her votes and > > > will be a valid target to became an anarch Baron. > > > When she becomes Anarch, she remains Independent and keeps her title. > > And, as an anarch, she is a valid target to become a Baron. If she receives the > > title of Baron, she'll lose her old "2 votes" title. > > Are you saying that any independent titled vampire can take a +1 > stealth action to became anarch, or that if by any chance the > independent titled vampire becames anarch (through Anarch Convert, > Jack Drake or Twilight Camp) he does not looses his current > independent title? > An untitled non-anarch vampire can become an anarch as a +1 stealth action that costs 2 blood (or 1 blood if the controller controls at least 1 other ready anarch). (Rulebook 10.5) But if Mata Hari becomes Anarch through Jack Drake or Anarch Secession (any other option would require an untitled vampire), she keeps her sectless, clanless title ("Mata Hari has 2 votes.")

Powerlord wrote: > On 3 Dez, 14:33, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> Powerlord wrote: >>> On 3 Dez, 13:46, Luis Espejo <lhesp...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> hello >>>> if mata hari becomes baron >>>> she gets 4 or only 2 votes >>>> thx >>> Hi, only two, the 2 votes she already has is itself a title. >>> Remember, she cannot became anarch by herself, because she is already >>> a title vampire, once she becames anarch she will lose her votes and >>> will be a valid target to became an anarch Baron. >> When she becomes Anarch, she remains Independent and keeps her title. >> And, as an anarch, she is a valid target to become a Baron. If she receives the >> title of Baron, she'll lose her old "2 votes" title. > > Are you saying that any independent titled vampire can take a +1 > stealth action to became anarch, or that if by any chance the > independent titled vampire becames anarch (through Anarch Convert, > Jack Drake or Twilight Camp) he does not looses his current > independent title? "she cannot became anarch by herself, because she is already a title vampire," True. "once she becames anarch she will lose her votes " False. "and will be a valid target to became an anarch Baron." True. >>> Also note that: >>> - an independent vampire cannot recieve the baron title while he is >>> not anarch >>> - titled vampires cannot "change" into anarch as a non-titled vampire >>> (through the +1 stealth action) >>> - a laibon, sabbat or camarilla non-titled vampire can take the action >>> to became anarch >> Also, an Independent non-titled vampire can. >> That is, any non-titled vampire can, regardless of sect. > > I assumed it on the first sentence ? OK.

On Dec 3, 6:33 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Powerlord wrote: > > On 3 Dez, 13:46, Luis Espejo <lhesp...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> hello > >> if mata hari becomes baron > >> she gets 4 or only 2 votes > > >> thx > > > Hi, only two, the 2 votes she already has is itself a title. > > > Remember, she cannot became anarch by herself, because she is already > > a title vampire, once she becames anarch she will lose her votes and > > will be a valid target to became an anarch Baron. > > When she becomes Anarch, she remains Independent and keeps her title. > And, as an anarch, she is a valid target to become a Baron. If she receives the > title of Baron, she'll lose her old "2 votes" title. From 10.5 of the rulebook: An untitled non-anarch vampire can become an anarch as a +1 stealth action that costs 2 blood (or 1 blood if the controller controls at least 1 other ready anarch). -------------------------------------------- An independent titled vampire could not take this action to become anarch because of their title. A quick look at various other means to go anarch: Go Anarch +1 stealth action. Requires a ready non-titled, non-anarch vampire. Put this card on the acting vampire and untap this vampire. This vampire is considered anarch (and independent). If this vampire changes sects, burn this card. Galaric's Legacy Master. Trifle. Put this card on a ready non-titled, non-anarch vampire you control. The vampire with this card is considered anarch (and independent). If this vampire changes sects, burn this card. Twilight Camp Master. Put this card in play with 4 counters. When you put a non-titled, non- anarch vampire in play from your uncontrolled region, you may burn a counter from this card to make that vampire anarch (and independent). You may burn a counter from this card to add a blood to an anarch as a master phase action. Burn this card when it has no counters. Seattle Committee Unique master. Put this card in play. During your master phase, you may tap this card to put an anarch counter on a ready non-titled, non-anarch vampire you control. A vampire with an anarch counter is considered anarch (and independent) even if this card leaves play. If a vampire with an anarch counter changes sects, burn the counter. ---------------------------------------- All of these ways to become anarch exclude titled vampires, just like the basic action to become an anarch. Anarch Secession +1 stealth action. Requires a ready, non-anarch, titled vampire. Put an anarch counter on this acting vampire. This vampire becomes anarch (and Independent). If he or she had a city title, put this card on him or her as a title card to represent the title of baron of the same city. Minions without titles cannot block this action. Burn the anarch counter if this vampire changes sects. ----------------------------------------- This requires a titled vampire, regardless of sect. When a vampire changes sects, their title is suppressed. Since anarchs belong to the "Independent" sect, what you are saying is that they don't lost their title, right? Does this mean that independent titles are not independent, non-anarch titles, but purely independent titles? This may sound intuitive, and maybe it's just a loophole that I hadn't caught before, but I thought that titled independent vampires lost their titles when they went independent. Good stuff. Jack Drake Brujah 8-capacity, group 4 CEL POT pre tha Independent. Anarch: When you put a younger vampire in play from your uncontrolled region, that vampire may burn a blood to become anarch. +1 strength. ------------------------------------------------------- So Jack Drake can make Kashan (7 capacity, 1 vote(titled) independent vampire), along with Maureen, Dark Priestess, Daniele Diron(1 vote), Don Michael Antionio Giovanni(2 votes), and Mata Hari(2 votes) anarchs that retain their independent titles through his special ability. Are there any other means of titled independent vampires becoming anarch I'm missing? Thanks, Brandon

brandonsantacruz wrote: > Anarch Secession > > This requires a titled vampire, regardless of sect. When a vampire > changes sects, their title is suppressed. Only if changing to a sect inappropriate for the title. That is, only if the title is sect-specific. Similarly, changing clans will suppress a title if the title is clan-based (like "Brujah Justicar"). Camarilla titles are sect-specific, as the name implies. [10.1] Sabbat titles are, too. [10.2] Laibon titles, too. [10.3] The anonymous titles that some Independent vampires have on their card text ("Me has 2 votes") are not restricted like the sect-based named titles. >Since anarchs belong to the > "Independent" sect, what you are saying is that they don't lost their > title, right? Right. > Does this mean that independent titles are not > independent, non-anarch titles, but purely independent titles? They're just titles. They're not linked to sect in any way. > This > may sound intuitive, and maybe it's just a loophole that I hadn't > caught before, but I thought that titled independent vampires lost > their titles when they went independent. Good stuff. Indy can't "go" Indy. They just stay Indy. > So Jack Drake can make Kashan (7 capacity, 1 vote(titled) independent > vampire), along with Maureen, Dark Priestess, Daniele Diron(1 vote), > Don Michael Antionio Giovanni(2 votes), and Mata Hari(2 votes) anarchs > that retain their independent titles through his special ability. Yeah.

> > Does this mean that independent titles are not > > independent, non-anarch titles, but purely independent titles? > > They're just titles. They're not linked to sect in any way. Hm, does this mean that when Mata Hari becomes Camarilla through Writ of Acceptance or Ravnos Acceptance, she keeps her 2 vote title? Once she becomes Prince of Stockholm, she would then lose her other title, I assume. On the same vein, if she was made an anarch through Jack Drake or Anarch Secession, then someone played The Waiting Game and she chooses to or is forced to go Camarilla, she would keep her 2 vote title? In that situation, if she were the Baron of Corte instead of having her regular title, would she lose her title when she became Camarilla? I'm sure this has been addressed before, but where in this process is her title lost vs when is it suppressed? I think I'm getting it now... Thanks, Brandon The Waiting Game Transient. Put this card in play with 10 counters. Whenever a non-anarch vampire takes an action, burn a counter from this card. Burn this card when it has no counters. During your untap phase, each anarch burns 1 blood or becomes Camarilla, and each ally burns 1 life.

brandonsantacruz wrote: >>> Does this mean that independent titles are not >>> independent, non-anarch titles, but purely independent titles? >> They're just titles. They're not linked to sect in any way. > > Hm, does this mean that when Mata Hari becomes Camarilla through Writ > of Acceptance or Ravnos Acceptance, she keeps her 2 vote title? Yes. > Once > she becomes Prince of Stockholm, she would then lose her other title, > I assume. Yes. [10] > On the same vein, if she was made an anarch through Jack > Drake or Anarch Secession, then someone played The Waiting Game and > she chooses to or is forced to go Camarilla, she would keep her 2 vote > title? Yes (same as Acceptance question above). > In that situation, if she were the Baron of Corte instead of > having her regular title, would she lose her title when she became > Camarilla? Yes. [10.5] > I'm sure this has been addressed before, but where in this process is > her title lost vs when is it suppressed? Gain a title => lose your old title. [10] Card text says lose a title => lose the title. Change to a sect/clan/non-anarch state not appropriate for your title: suppress the title [10].

[ quoted text not captured ] Great, thank you, that's very helpful! Brandon