'K, what's the story of Brass Knuckles?

This may be a baseless assumption, but from my google searching on how to play this card from this newsgroup, the accepted function of this card is that it provides +1 strength for one strike in combat. I always thought this was the case even from the first time I got one in a Sabbat booster. I always thought the "once each combat" prevented multiple strikes with them (with just one copy). Brass Knuckles Type: Equipment Melee Weapon. Strength+1 damage each strike. This weapon is only usable once each combat. Rarity: Sabbat:C SW:C/PT/PV CE:C But I've always been baflled by the other words on the card "each strike." It just seems so... conflicting. So I was wondering am I seeing this card wrong? Is it once each combat as in restricted to a single round? a single strike (like i think)? Some other thing I'm overlooking? Or is there some really cool background story to this card? Honestly, I'd be happiest if there is some really cool/funny background story. Something involving design team celebrating with one too many drinks at the finale of making the Sabbat set and overlooked a typo or something. I dunno. Anyone know why this card is written like this?

"Azel" <opao...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:S_ednSPWvrh...@comcast.com... > Something involving design > team celebrating with one too many drinks at the finale of making the Sabbat > set and overlooked a typo or something. I dunno. Anyone know why this card > is written like this? maybe. See also White Phosphorous Grenade with similar wording (but you can only use it once, since it burns after use) Name: White Phosphorus Grenade [Sabbat:U, SW:U, FN:PS] Cardtype: Equipment Cost: 1 pool Weapon. 2R aggravated damage **each strike**; if White Phosphorus Grenade is used at close range, the minion with this equipment takes 1 aggravated damage. Burn after use.

Azel <opao...@comcast.net> wrote: > But I've always been baflled by the other words on the card "each strike." It's for consistency of wording. We like consistency of wording.

"Azel" <opao...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:S_ednSPWvrh...@comcast.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Its worded that way because it has to be. The minion only gets the extra damage, when striking. without the "each strike" it would say "strength +1 damage" which could mean all the time, +1 strength on bleed actions, +1 strength on using your bastard sword, or maybe it would mean you only get the +1 damage once ever, who knows when! its just to clarify when you get the bonus. -- The Nosferatu Stuff

but, see, that still leaves me baffled. because why don't they just write the card as, strike: strength +1. only usable once each combat. for examples of precedent see: Garrote Type: Equipment Cost: 1 pool Melee weapon. Strike: strength damage, only usable at close range. If the opposing vampire goes into torpor during the strike resolution step of this strike and the bearer remains ready, the bearer may burn this card to burn the opposing vampire. This is not considered diablerie. Rarity: FN:C/PA Flash Grenade Type: Equipment Weapon. Strike: combat ends. If the opposing minion is a vampire, he or she is tapped and does not untap as normal on his or her next untap phase. If the bearer is a vampire and the grenade is used at close range, the bearer is also tapped and does not untap as normal on his or her next untap phase. Burn this weapon after use. Rarity: Gehenna:C (this is gonna be a long post, providing evidence for your leisure) As you can see, the [strike: xyz] manner of writing exists. But I did notice something interesting - even during Sabbat set - most of the cards that follow this Brass Knuckles pattern came from this set. Yet they could have been following precedent. I shall show Examples: Brass Knuckles Type: Equipment Melee Weapon. Strength+1 damage each strike. This weapon is only usable once each combat. Rarity: Sabbat:C SW:C/PT/PV CE:C Gas-Powered Chainsaw Type: Equipment Cost: 1 pool Melee Weapon. 3 damage each strike. This weapon is only usable once each combat. Rarity: Sabbat:C SW:C/PB CE:C Now here is where I find the earliest example of this wording. From the Jyhad set: Sawed-Off Shotgun Type: Equipment Cost: 2 pool Weapon, gun. 3R damage each strike. This weapon is only usable once each combat. Rarity: Jyhad:C VTES:C SW:PB CE:PB The closest wording from the Jyhad set to this card is: Chainsaw Type: Equipment Cost: 2 pool Weapon. 3 damage as a strike, usable only once each combat. Rarity: Jyhad:U2 But here's some fun. One could say that this is an issue of updating wording on card texts; considering Garrote paved the way for new wording it's just a matter of time to fix that. But notice as Garrote came out during FN that BK, GPC, and SOS all came out in the following set CE without the change. Now I don't know if there's expense reasons to not change the text, but this was the set that had the drastic border change, let alone that each new set has to have its own new symbol at the top. There might be a reason behind all this and I'd like to know because I'm curious. I think there might be an interesting story hiding behind. So, unless there is some rules thing I'm overlooking, does anyone have behind the scenes pieces of this puzzle? So far it's making a real cool mystery...

my Sabbat set Brass Knuckles and Gas Powered Chainsaw are worded differently than described by the modern version of CE. They actually make a bit more sense to me in saying "the minion with this equipment can inflict [xyz] as a strike once each combat." heh, wondered why they changed it (besides the obvious hand damage stuff when applicable). the plot thickens!

Azel wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Perhaps because, with the old wording, those weapons could not be used by Ghoul Retainers (who are not minions). Name: Ghoul Retainer [Jyhad:R2, VTES:R, CE:R2] Cardtype: Retainer Cost: 2 pool Ghoul with 2 life. 1 strength. Each round of combat during strike resolution, the Ghoul Retainer inflicts 1 damage or may use a weapon that is not being used by the employing minion (or another retainer) during that round. This is not a strike, although it does count as "using" the weapon. Greetings, Damnans http://www.almadrava.net/damnans http://www.vtes.net

hey hey! that's a great catch! slowly the truth unveils itself! still confused why after Garrote in FN they went with their present wording in CE, but that's another thing... thanks! this is actually kinda fun detective work!

> > Flash Grenade > > Type: Equipment > > Weapon. > > Strike: combat ends. If the opposing minion is a vampire, he or she is > tapped and does not untap as normal on his or her next untap phase. If the > bearer is a vampire and the grenade is used at close range, the bearer is > also tapped and does not untap as normal on his or her next untap phase. > Burn this weapon after use. > > Rarity: Gehenna:C > > (this is gonna be a long post, ............... > Sorry that I have to mention this. Does a dodge negate the effect of "not untapping"? Or does SC:E? Or psyche? Oortje http://oortje.bravehost.com/vampire.htm Personal Vampire Archive

Oortje4ever wrote: >>Strike: combat ends. If the opposing minion is a vampire, he or she is >>tapped and does not untap as normal on his or her next untap phase. If the >>bearer is a vampire and the grenade is used at close range, the bearer is >>also tapped and does not untap as normal on his or her next untap phase. >>Burn this weapon after use. >> >>Rarity: Gehenna:C >> >>(this is gonna be a long post, ............... >> > > > Sorry that I have to mention this. > Does a dodge negate the effect of "not untapping"? Or does SC:E? Or psyche? No. No. (Those two have no effect outside of combat.) Yes. (It stops everything after the words, "combat ends.") http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=40BC615A.5040905%40white-wolf.com&output=gplain (LSJ: Would a Psyche! stop the Flash Grenade from being burnt?) --Colin McGuigan

Colin McGuigan wrote: > (LSJ: Would a Psyche! stop the Flash Grenade from being burnt?) No. It would still have been used. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<PS4Ec.156927$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>... > Colin McGuigan wrote: > > (LSJ: Would a Psyche! stop the Flash Grenade from being burnt?) > > No. It would still have been used. so psyche also stops the untapping effect of superior majesty?

Oortje4ever expounded: [ quoted text not captured ] No you untap before the combat ends. Even TElepathic tracking doeesn't stop the untap.