yet another Shock Troops Question

This question has probably been asked before. LSJ can probably write a book about this card. Are Shock Troops and the skill cards played together, or do you play the Troops, then replace, play the skill cards and pay? We ruled that they should be played together The guy playing with the Troops deck tought he could play the Troops, replace the troops, play a skill card, replace it, play a skill card, replace it....... untill he ran out of skill cards and then pay for the Troops. this we found to be ridiculous, please tell us we haven't made complete asses of ourselves.

"jeroen rombouts" <jeroen....@pandora.be> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:W2z26.7366$CK.2...@afrodite.telenet-ops.be... > This question has probably been asked before. LSJ can probably write a book > about this card. Perhaps - but would he include the Trick To Make That Card Do Nasty Things (TM)? ;-) > Are Shock Troops and the skill cards played together, or do you play the > Troops, then replace, play the skill cards and pay? > We ruled that they should be played together > > The guy playing with the Troops deck tought he could play the Troops, > replace the troops, play a skill card, replace it, play a skill card, > replace it....... untill he ran out of skill cards and then pay for the > Troops. this we found to be ridiculous, please tell us we haven't made > complete asses of ourselves. > Card text: Shock Troops [SW] Cardtype: Master Cost: X pool <Master.> Requires a ready Archbishop or Cardinal. Put X Master: Discipline cards from your hand into play. These cards represent clanless Sabbat vampires of 1 capacity with those respective Disciplines and do not count as Master: Discipline cards while in play. These vampires are not unique, must hunt the turn they are created, have -1 stealth on all actions and cannot attempt bleeds or political actions. From the V:TES Official Clarifications, Rulings, and Errata: The effect of the Master Card is completely defined when the card is played (any targets must be named). [LSJ 19970630] Thus, you have to declare the amount of pool you would like to spend when Shock Troops is played. In fact, as I understand this, you spend X pool (a definite amount) _first_, _then_ you are allowed to put your horde (exactly X of them) into play. This does not exactly answer your question when the cards are replaced, but that point is rendered moot... :-) -- Hardy Range "O God, I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams." Hamlet hardy...@gmx.de

On Thu, 28 Dec 2000 09:22:44 +0100, "Hardy Range" <hardy...@gmx.de> wrote: >From the V:TES Official Clarifications, Rulings, and Errata: > >The effect of the Master Card is completely defined when the card is played >(any targets must be named). [LSJ 19970630] > >Thus, you have to declare the amount of pool you would like to spend when >Shock Troops is played. In fact, as I understand this, you spend X pool (a >definite amount) _first_, _then_ you are allowed to put your horde (exactly >X of them) into play. > >This does not exactly answer your question when the cards are replaced, but >that point is rendered moot... :-) ...and as a side note in a similar case, Disguised Weapon requires you to equip with a weapon "from your hand" as well. Since when you play the DW, you MUST play the weapon as well (you can't go fishing for it in your library), it seems reasonable to assume that Shock Troops works the same way; you must somehow have the cards in your hand and can't go "chasing" through your library for them. -- Derek Goon-of-the-Month club member

[ quoted text not captured ] Correct. The 'X' discipline cards are chosen (selected) from your hand when Shock Troops is played - they must be in your hand at that time. Even if you draw a (better) discipline card to replace Shock Troops, you cannot substitute that new card in for one of the X cards you had previously chosen. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Sudden Reversal of Shock Troops All the skill cards get discarded? Returned to hand? SR, BTW, is possibly the final nail in the coffin as you can't rely on being able to get any Troops in play, which means you can't build a competitive deck around them.

cur...@aol.com (Ian Lee) wrote: > Sudden Reversal of Shock Troops > All the skill cards get discarded? Returned to hand? Stay in hand. [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <20001228123740...@ng-fk1.aol.com>, Ian Lee <cur...@aol.com> writes >SR, BTW, is possibly the final nail in the coffin as you can't rely on being >able to get any Troops in play, which means you can't build a competitive deck >around them. Building a competitive deck around one and solely one strategy always has been a risky proposition. If you find yourself next to massive bounce, it doesn't matter what bleed you can do, etc. If you think the positives out-weigh the negatives, it can be a good way to go. The toolbox deck is, however, more than capable of holding its own, played well. -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D "What's wrong with wanting more? If you can fly -- then soar! With all there is, why settle for just a piece of sky?"