rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

(LSJ) Blood Turnip questions - movement option and Psyche!

8 messages from 6 participants · 20 September 2008 – 23 September 2008
original thread on Google Groups

Darby Keeney

Scott, got a couple for you on Blood Turnip Type: Master Requires: anarch Unique master. Requires a ready anarch. Put this card on any minion. When this minion enters combat, he or she moves this card and 1 blood (or life) to the opposing minion. If the opposing minion is an anarch, that anarch can move this card onto any minion instead (but it must move). I've seen a couple of posts, including one question you answered about this card, but I admit to being a bit confused. Since I'm looking at this card for a deck, I want to get it right. First, when I read this, I get an "either/or" interpretation, not an "and" as seem to be the current interpretation. I get an anarch somehow, then I play this card on someone else's minion. I enter combat with that minion with some sort of successful rush or block. All good so far. By card text, the first line is clear. 1 blood/life moves from the opposing minion to mine. If my minion is fighting an ally, it loses 1 life, my minion gains 1 blood. Still good. But it's that last line that gets me - particularly the "instead" part. Every time I read it, I get .... "instead of moving a blood as previously described, you can move the card - and btw, if you don't take the blood/life, then you HAVE to move the card to a different (not the same) minion." But that doesn't seem to jibe with some of the comments on the newsgroup. Particularly the one where you say if an ally burns (e.g., he lost a life), you still get to move the card. That seems to make it an "and" statement. I guess that the "instead" could also be interpreted "instead of this minion, and it can't go to the same minion." If that's the case, a simple "can move this card to any other minion" would have both sufficed and been more clear. Assuming that this card is really an "and" effect, so I can both get the blood/life and move it....I'm still a bit confused by having a card on a burning ally move....the second sentence indicates "can" - implying an optional effect. The burning part, with the ally and all cards on it going to the graveyard is mandatory. It was my impression that all mandatory effects must be ordered first (to the graveyard, all of you!), before the optional effects could be ordered (hey, Turnip, go sit on minion "x"). Clearly, diablerie is an excepted from such confusion by rule 6.5.5, where blood/equipment movement preceed the burning of the vampire. So, please let me know which way I should be looking at this. Finally, the enter combat terminology leaves wondering how Psyche! interacts with Blood Turnip. Psyche! Type: Combat Requires: Celerity [cel] Press. [CEL] Only usable at the end of combat when both combatants are still ready. Begin another combat with the opposing minion. I think that Psyche! used to explicitly include the phrase "enter combat" - but it clearly no longer does. Still, the question remains, if I Psyche! against a Blood Turnip, do I get to steal another blood/ life (and/or move the Blood Turnip) at the beginning of the new combat? Thanks in advance. Darby

Salem

Darby Keeney wrote: > Scott, got a couple for you on > > Blood Turnip ... > Still, the question remains, > if I Psyche! against a Blood Turnip, do I get to steal another blood/ > life (and/or move the Blood Turnip) at the beginning of the new > combat? I'm not LSJ, but...yes. However.... If there's just one combat and then a psyche, it will never be 'another' blood or life. it can only be 'a'. Because when you entered combat the first time, you will have stolen a blood and moved the turnip. and you can't have moved it back to the same guy, because 'it must move'. (there of course can be the opportunity to do it with _multiple_ psyches and just moving the card back and forth...but then they're stealing off you, too. unless you're empty each time you have the turnip and start a new combat...) -- salem (replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)

Darby Keeney

On Sep 19, 10:28 pm, Salem <kella...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Darby Keeney wrote: > I'm not LSJ, but...yes. > > However.... > > If there's just one combat and then a psyche, it will never be 'another' > blood or life. it can only be 'a'. > > Because when you entered combat the first time, you will have stolen a > blood and moved the turnip. and you can't have moved it back to the same > guy, because 'it must move'. > > (there of course can be the opportunity to do it with _multiple_ psyches > and just moving the card back and forth...but then they're stealing off > you, too. unless you're empty each time you have the turnip and start a > new combat...) I didn't say either the opposing minion or the psyching minion is an anarch. The blood stealing part works regardless, per the second sentence of Turnip, and the movement part only applies if the minion without the turnip is an anarch - so everything remains in place for the second combat (if neither is Anarch), unless I'm reading this completely wrong. Then past that, we haven't solved anything about HAVING to move the card even if my minion were an anarch (the card says "can" - implying an option to move, but also implying that I cannot move it to the same minion, or that the move is mandatory - I still can't tell which). In the end, I think it boils down to "steal a blood/life no matter what, and move(!) the card if you're an Anarch" - so that last part should have been written "If the opposing minion is an anarch, that anarch's controller must move this card to a different minion." But that sure doesn't seem completely straightforward from the print. At any rate, thanks for the response, and we'll see what LSJ makes of this.

Pullen

[ quoted text not captured ] No, if Minion A has a Turnip and some how enters combat with Minion B, the Turnip moves, if Minion B is an anarch, Minion B can either choose to keep the Turnip or move it to a minion who is not Minion A

James Coupe

In message <7f441d71-f160-4cdd...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroup s.com>, Darby Keeney <darby....@gmail.com> writes: >In the end, I think it boils down to "steal a blood/life no matter >what, and move(!) the card if you're an Anarch" - so that last part >should have been written "If the >opposing minion is an anarch, that anarch's controller must move this >card to a different minion." But that sure doesn't seem completely >straightforward from the print. Case 1: A has a Blood Turnip. B is not an anarch. They enter combat. A blood (or life) moves from A to B, and the Turnip moves from A to B. Case 2: A has a Blood Turnip. B is an anarch. They enter combat. A blood (or life) moves from A to B. B's controller chooses where to move the Blood Turnip. It must move (it can't stay on A), but it can move to any minion. In case 2, ordinarily, the anarch controller will want to move it to another minion he's going to rush (or get blocked by, or whatever), so another of his anarchs can get a blood. However, if B and A are the only two minions around, it moves from A to B. You might want to do that intentionally, too - for example, if you were using a temporarily stolen minion or something. It just have to move to someone who isn't the minion with it already, of the anarch controller's choice. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

Darby Keeney

On Sep 20, 7:42 am, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > In message <7f441d71-f160-4cdd-96a3-a9aa99d35...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroup > s.com>, Darby Keeney <darby.kee...@gmail.com> writes: > > >In the end, I think it boils down to "steal a blood/life no matter > >what, and move(!) the card if you're an Anarch" - so that last part > >should have been written "If the > >opposing minion is an anarch, that anarch's controller must move this > >card to a different minion." But that sure doesn't seem completely > >straightforward from the print. > > Case 1: > A has a Blood Turnip. B is not an anarch. They enter combat. A blood > (or life) moves from A to B, and the Turnip moves from A to B. > > Case 2: > A has a Blood Turnip. B is an anarch. They enter combat. A blood (or > life) moves from A to B. B's controller chooses where to move the Blood > Turnip. It must move (it can't stay on A), but it can move to any > minion. > > In case 2, ordinarily, the anarch controller will want to move it to > another minion he's going to rush (or get blocked by, or whatever), so > another of his anarchs can get a blood. However, if B and A are the > only two minions around, it moves from A to B. You might want to do > that intentionally, too - for example, if you were using a temporarily > stolen minion or something. It just have to move to someone who isn't > the minion with it already, of the anarch controller's choice. Aha! Thanks for the clarification, it finally sunk in. Somehow, in that first sentence, I missed the "this card and" EVERY TIME I read it. Geez. Perhaps it is time for a trip to the eye clinic? Think they can prescribe something for tunnel-vision? This pretty much makes Turnip el-crapola for one of the things I was planning, but it's not entirely useless ;) Thanks again. D.

Peter D Bakija

On Sep 20, 10:47 am, Darby Keeney <darby.kee...@gmail.com> wrote: > This pretty much makes Turnip el-crapola for one of the things I was > planning, but it's not entirely useless ;) I think it is pretty good for an Anarch Rush deck (I'm using it in some sort of pot/for/cel Diversion based Rush deck abomination I have put together)--you drop it on your target, rush, start the combat by stealing a blood from them, put the Turnip on the target of your next rush, and continue as needed. It is actually not bad. I mean, yeah, I don't know if it is worth a master slot and all, but when it is in play, it isn't bad. -Peter

LSJ

Salem wrote: > Darby Keeney wrote: >> Scott, got a couple for you on >> >> Blood Turnip > .... > > Still, the question remains, >> if I Psyche! against a Blood Turnip, do I get to steal another blood/ >> life (and/or move the Blood Turnip) at the beginning of the new >> combat? > > I'm not LSJ, but...yes. > > However.... > > If there's just one combat and then a psyche, it will never be 'another' > blood or life. it can only be 'a'. > > Because when you entered combat the first time, you will have stolen a > blood and moved the turnip. and you can't have moved it back to the same > guy, because 'it must move'. > > (there of course can be the opportunity to do it with _multiple_ psyches > and just moving the card back and forth...but then they're stealing off > you, too. unless you're empty each time you have the turnip and start a > new combat...) > Correct.