Deck: Anneke and Millicent Reversal

Heya, Here is a deck which is great if the moving parts click, idea is to change the direction of play, get millicent smith out, and burn who you fancy with anneke blocking anyone on the table. Get your own game going with toreador greand balled votey actions, and recycle all your millicents, grand balls etc with anthelios-anson tech. Anyone have any ideas to make it more reliable? Cheers, Anthony Deck name: Author: Description: Crypt: 4 Alexandra dom ANI AUS CEL PRE 11 Toreador Camarilla Inner Circle 4 Anneke dom AUS CEL PRE 10 Toreador Camarilla Toreador Justicar 4 Anson aus dom CEL PRE 8 Toreador Camarilla Prince of Seattle Library: Master(28) 1 Art Museum 2 Dominate 2 Fortschritt Library 1 Giant's Blood 2 Golconda: Inner Peace 1 Legendary Vampire 5 Millicent Smith, Puritan Vampire Hunter 7 Minion Tap 1 Secure Haven 1 Temptation of Greater Power 5 Toreador Grand Ball Action(2) 2 Entrancement Equipment(3) 2 Sniper Rifle 1 The Sargon Fragment Political Action(18) 1 Ancient Influence 2 Ancilla Empowerment 4 Kine Resources Contested 3 Parity Shift 1 Political Stranglehold 1 Protect Thine Own 1 Reins of Power 5 Reversal of Fortunes Action Modifier(10) 5 Awe 5 Voter Captivation Reaction(22) 10 Obedience 12 Second Tradition: Domain Combat(6) 6 Majesty Event(1) 1 Anthelios, The Red Star

[ quoted text not captured ] This is the most frustrating deck I've ever played against. I recommend you gather the deck and use it for kindling in your fireplace! Seriously, I'm surprised there's only one Anthelios. I would probably add Bowl of Convergence for any of those cheeky blokes who can pull off three or more stealth. -- Dorrinal Blackmantle Chronicler of Clan Tremere

Anthony Coleman wrote: > Here is a deck which is great if the moving parts click, idea is to > change the direction of play, get millicent smith out, and burn who you > fancy with anneke blocking anyone on the table. Get your own game going > with toreador greand balled votey actions, and recycle all your > millicents, grand balls etc with anthelios-anson tech. > > Anyone have any ideas to make it more reliable? You might want to include the Seal of Veddhartha for Anneke. Not only does it give her the superior Dominate you want for Obedience, but it will give her Fortitude as well, protecting her from Kiss of Ra. I would expect it to be more generally useful than the Sargon Fragment.

Anthony Coleman wrote: > Heya, > > Here is a deck which is great if the moving parts click, idea is to > change the direction of play, get millicent smith out, and burn who you > fancy with anneke blocking anyone on the table. Get your own game going > with toreador greand balled votey actions, and recycle all your > millicents, grand balls etc with anthelios-anson tech. > LOL! I have a deck like this which I take out for a walk from time ti time :) Add a Dr Marisa Fletcher and Tension in the Ranks for more pressure. Deck dies in the face of weenies, which is a problem. I've thought of replacing the combat escape with concealed guns. Sten During

Sten During wrote: > LOL! > > I have a deck like this which I take out for a walk from time ti time :) > Sten During Great minds think alike Sten, or was that fools stick together.... I'm never sure which way round that goes :O) Asto the suggestions, bowl of convergance must go in, maybe ill put a FOR skillcard in rather than the seal of vedartha as it could potentially bump my cap to 12 as I already run 2 dom skillcards so then ill be able to obedience pescy 11 caps... DI is another possible solution to Kiss of Raa of course. Sargon fragment is quite usefull though, for fishing back damaging votes etc in the end game so that will stay put.. cheers, Anthony

[ quoted text not captured ] I played against this deck in the São Paulo State Championship... it was very, very annoying... but not very effective... the table ended with 0.5 to everyone :P Have Fun Fabio Ciccone storylinesp.vai.la

[ quoted text not captured ] Maybe it wasnt quite the same then, as this deck has never had a time out.... sure nor has it won every game ive used it in either, but its done OK. And doing OK is OK by me for a trick deck :O) > Have Fun > Fabio Ciccone > storylinesp.vai.la Hmm, err, yeah... thanks, I'll try :O)

"Anthony Coleman" <Bunti...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1132331318.6...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > Heya, > > Here is a deck which is great if the moving parts click, idea is to > change the direction of play, get millicent smith out, and burn who you > fancy with anneke blocking anyone on the table. Get your own game going > with toreador greand balled votey actions, and recycle all your > millicents, grand balls etc with anthelios-anson tech. > > Anyone have any ideas to make it more reliable? A Free States Rant or two would let you force certain minions to hunt when Millicent is theirs (thus letting you block them). Other blood burning cards would serve same purpose. -John P.

"John P." <jtpa...@mts.net> wrote > > A Free States Rant or two would let you force certain > minions to hunt when Millicent is theirs (thus letting you block > them). Other blood burning cards would serve same purpose. No one in the crypt is eligible to play FSR. Society of Leopold might force someone to act, however... either to pass to someone else or as a forced hunt. Cheers, WES

"Wes" <gh...@NYETmnsiSPAM.net> wrote in message news:dlmdc...@enews3.newsguy.com... > > "John P." <jtpa...@mts.net> wrote >> >> A Free States Rant or two would let you force certain >> minions to hunt when Millicent is theirs (thus letting you block >> them). Other blood burning cards would serve same purpose. > > No one in the crypt is eligible to play FSR. That is what I get for not reading the card. I suppose he's not going to want to play Anarch Succession either? :) If he could find another event, Becoming of Ennoia would function slowly. Thanks for the catch Wes. (Aren't you supposed to be off corrupting South Americans about now?) -John P. Winnipeg

"John P." <jtpa...@mts.net> wrote >> >> No one in the crypt is eligible to play FSR. > > That is what I get for not reading the card. > I suppose he's not going to want to play Anarch Succession either? :) I managed to acquire quite a few Anarch Secessions. Can't really think of a way to use them well. I kind of wish the card did something in addition to simply making a titled vampire become an anarch. Like Blooding gives the vampire a shot of blood, or maybe untap the vampire, like a lot of cards now seem to do. > If he could find another event, Becoming of Ennoia would function slowly. You mean if *another Methuselah* has two events in-play. Sorry, John. Mr. Card-Text strikes again! :) > Thanks for the catch Wes. > (Aren't you supposed to be off corrupting South Americans about now?) My services are still required in the immediate area, but we'll see what happens... Cheers, WES

"Anthony Coleman" <Bunti...@gmail.com> schreef in bericht news:1132331318.6...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > Heya, > > Here is a deck which is great if the moving parts click, idea is to > change the direction of play, get millicent smith out, and burn who you > fancy with anneke blocking anyone on the table. Get your own game going > with toreador greand balled votey actions, and recycle all your > millicents, grand balls etc with anthelios-anson tech. > > Anyone have any ideas to make it more reliable? > > Cheers, > Anthony > > Deck name: > Author: > Description: > > Crypt: > 4 Alexandra dom ANI AUS CEL PRE 11 Toreador Camarilla Inner Circle > 4 Anneke dom AUS CEL PRE 10 Toreador Camarilla Toreador > Justicar > 4 Anson aus dom CEL PRE 8 Toreador Camarilla Prince of > Seattle Are you regularly able to bring Alexandra out? If not, replace with tor weenies. > > Library: > Master(28) > 1 Art Museum > 2 Dominate > 2 Fortschritt Library More! the first one fetches Anthelios, the others can be used as the master you exchange. > 1 Giant's Blood > 2 Golconda: Inner Peace > 1 Legendary Vampire > 5 Millicent Smith, Puritan Vampire Hunter > 7 Minion Tap > 1 Secure Haven > 1 Temptation of Greater Power > 5 Toreador Grand Ball > You need a way of making people (escpecially your prey) act: Society of Leopold, as Wes mentioned is good, pentex subversion might work too. Lunatic Eruption would be ideal, but you can't play that. > Action(2) > 2 Entrancement > > Equipment(3) > 2 Sniper Rifle > 1 The Sargon Fragment > > Political Action(18) > 1 Ancient Influence > 2 Ancilla Empowerment nit-picking: should be 1 ancilla and 1 Anarchist uprising (Yeah, I see way too many Delaying Tactics in my games) > 4 Kine Resources Contested > 3 Parity Shift > 1 Political Stranglehold > 1 Protect Thine Own > 1 Reins of Power > 5 Reversal of Fortunes > > Action Modifier(10) > 5 Awe > 5 Voter Captivation awe? again the Delaying Tactics thing: BO should suffice, no? You already have 3+2 (maybe +4) votes +1 for the vote card. A BO should push that through without talking chances with burning blood and then have someone play delaying tactics. > > Reaction(22) > 10 Obedience > 12 Second Tradition: Domain with a max intercept of 2, I would include deflections. If they generate 3 stealth or play with seduction/ block fails effects, you will have a problem. And since people see Millicent, they won't move until they have enough stealth to get past your 2nd trad. > > Combat(6) > 6 Majesty Do you really need these? the only reason for these is when you get rushed by allies or 10 caps. I would replace with 2 more entrancements (your deck hates ally decks that can start early) and 2 more sniper rifles, which I think are better protection against fr. ex a rushing Enkidu. and use the other 2 slots for at least 1 Aranthebes. > > Event(1) > 1 Anthelios, The Red Star > All IMO, of course.

Wes wrote: ssion either? :) > > I managed to acquire quite a few Anarch Secessions. Can't really think of a > way to use them well. I kind of wish the card did something in addition to > simply making a titled vampire become an anarch. Like Blooding gives the > vampire a shot of blood, or maybe untap the vampire, like a lot of cards now > seem to do. Anarch Secession is great in a couple of ways. First, if the titled vampire is a prince or archbishop, they gain the barony of whichever city they control. Second, and most important in my opinion, is that the baron title granted doesn't come with an option to vote it away. That drawback has always made it even harder for anarch vote decks to be competitive using Fee Stakes. Would it be a better card if it would give the vampire a blood or untap them? Sure, but I think that it is still a playable card, regardless. Doug

"Doug" <mess...@yahoo.com> wrote >> > > Anarch Secession is great in a couple of ways. First, if the titled > vampire is a prince or archbishop, they gain the barony of whichever > city they control. Second, and most important in my opinion, is that > the baron title granted doesn't come with an option to vote it away. > That drawback has always made it even harder for anarch vote decks to > be competitive using Fee Stakes. I am well aware of what the card does. What I am wondering is how to fit it into decks. It seems good, on first glance, but when I start the deck-building process, it feels like too much of a "bolt-on". It is *much* easier to turn a non-titled vampire into an anarch, and get use out of anarch cards, than it is to throw in Anarch Secessions. Furthermore, titled vampires, especially Princes and Archbishops, already have access to their own cards, like Second Tradition and Eternal Vigilance. I do like some of the anarch cards, but I wonder if titled vampires gain much by losing access to the better P/J cards etc. And, I suspect that I will be needing a *lot* more Anarch Secessions than I have. It does not seem like a card that you can throw one or two into a deck. It seems like, either your titled vampire absolutely needs to be an anarch to make the deck go, or it's not absolutely essential that they become anarch, in which case, why bother including them? So, it seems to me there is much more of an opportunity cost than playing with Galaric's Legacy etc. I mean, I like that titled vampires have a way to become anarch, but I'm just not seeing a lot of reasons to do so. I'm sure there are decks to be made, but I'm just not coming up with any. Perhaps you have had different luck. Could you give us a decklist of a deck featuring Anarch Secession? I'd certainly like to see some... > Would it be a better card if it would give the vampire a blood or untap > them? Sure, but I think that it is still a playable card, regardless. All cards are playable. Are all cards worth playing with? Cheers, WES

> And, I suspect that I will be needing a *lot* more Anarch Secessions than I > have. It does not seem like a card that you can throw one or two into a > deck. It seems like, either your titled vampire absolutely needs to be an > anarch to make the deck go, or it's not absolutely essential that they > become anarch, in which case, why bother including them? So far, the best idea I can come up with is a deck where you want one main support (say, Prince), and a bunch of Anarchs. So if you have 2 Prince Crypt cards, you want to be able to influence them both out and get full mileage out of each, turning one into an Anarch. Or, if there's a Prince that fits perfectly into your Anarch Vote deck, it'd be nice - but not necessarily essential - to turn him Anarch. -- - Gregory Stuart Pettigrew

Reason to bother with Anarch Secession: Gregory Stuart Pettigrew wrote: > > And, I suspect that I will be needing a *lot* more Anarch Secessions than I > > have. It does not seem like a card that you can throw one or two into a > > deck. . . . > > So far, the best idea I can come up with is a deck where you want one main > support (say, Prince), and a bunch of Anarchs. . . . > Or, if there's a Prince that fits perfectly into your Anarch Vote deck, > it'd be nice - but not necessarily essential - to turn him Anarch. Setite and/or Assamite (and/or any Independent clan) Anarch Vote deck. Run titled vampires, Anarch Secession them, and use any unique political abilities upon them: as the vampire does not change sects upon succeeding, it does not destroy its title to do so. This reduces need (if any) for fee stakes. I would make this deck myself if I had gotten enough Anarch Seccessions from Anarchs - I did not.

In message <1132606767.1...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Defender of Ra <rules...@hotmail.com> writes: >Setite and/or Assamite (and/or any Independent clan) Anarch Vote deck. >Run titled vampires, Anarch Secession them, and use any unique >political abilities upon them: as the vampire does not change sects >upon succeeding, it does not destroy its title to do so. One point. The Setites (for example) who are titled with "X has 2 votes" would keep that title even if they changed sect e.g. to Camarilla, Sabbat or Laibon. Whilst those "X has 2 votes" style titles are only found on vampires who are printed as Independent, the title is *not* tied to clan or sect. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

> Cheers, > Anthony > > Deck name: > Author: > Description: > > Crypt: > 4 Alexandra dom ANI AUS CEL PRE 11 Toreador Camarilla Inner Circle > 4 Anneke dom AUS CEL PRE 10 Toreador Camarilla Toreador > Justicar > 4 Anson aus dom CEL PRE 8 Toreador Camarilla Prince of > Seattle > > Library: > Master(28) > 1 Art Museum > 2 Dominate > 2 Fortschritt Library > 1 Giant's Blood > 2 Golconda: Inner Peace > 1 Legendary Vampire > 5 Millicent Smith, Puritan Vampire Hunter > 7 Minion Tap > 1 Secure Haven > 1 Temptation of Greater Power > 5 Toreador Grand Ball What, No Smiling Jack? I would get rid of the Legendary Vampire for it, to be honest with you. Could do with a Fortitude skill card... Kiss of Ra would kick your ass... =/ Think about a Perfectionist on the Grand Ball vampire, that would be great. I would drop minion taps down to 5, and add 1 more Fortschritt library, and a DI... Unless they play with 2 different, you can't block cards you will block them. Burn the vampire that's daring, or elder impersonating, or calling the hungry dead. You can get the DI back if needed. If you like my trick below, add a vast wealth instead of a DI/Fortschritt library? > Action(2) > 2 Entrancement 2 Embraces instead? They can be targets for the toreador Grand Ball? If you want to be really sick... Add a daemonic possesion. If you get the combo going... Burn a vampire with Millicent, and then... You can use the sargon fragment to get it from your ash heap, then untap, and daemonic possess it... And it can't be blocked! (Hopefully) The POWER, the evil trick works!!!! MUHAHAHA... sorry, excuss me. But that would be sick... If not, just discard it, and wait till you get the sargon fragment. =D > Equipment(3) > 2 Sniper Rifle > 1 The Sargon Fragment Maybe add a Seal of Veddartha... One counter would give all your vampires DOM, and the third counter would give for, which is all good... And it's a +1 bleed. > Political Action(18) > 1 Ancient Influence > 2 Ancilla Empowerment > 4 Kine Resources Contested > 3 Parity Shift > 1 Political Stranglehold > 1 Protect Thine Own > 1 Reins of Power > 5 Reversal of Fortunes Sabbat Threats? Which would make your prey (or anybody else) try to get the edge? Or maybe a praxis seizure: paris, and make Alexandria a 12 cap prince so she can second tradition as well? Lose 2 votes though... It's just a thought. > Action Modifier(10) > 5 Awe > 5 Voter Captivation > > Reaction(22) > 10 Obedience > 12 Second Tradition: Domain > > Combat(6) > 6 Majesty > > Event(1) > 1 Anthelios, The Red Star Think about Carlton... He can block Daring with 1 intercept, and if your worried anybody with FOR that would kiss of ra. Vampires burn the same if Carlton is blocking as well...

James Coupe wrote: > In message <1132606767.1...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, > One point. > > The Setites (for example) who are titled with "X has 2 votes" would keep > that title even if they changed sect e.g. to Camarilla, Sabbat or > Laibon. > > Whilst those "X has 2 votes" style titles are only found on vampires who > are printed as Independent, the title is *not* tied to clan or sect. That is not what the rulebook implied to me. Not that I mind that being the case, mind you -- I think the hostility of anarchism to indepedent titles is contrary to theme and common sense and like independent titles to be as flexible as possible. But, still, it seemed to me that all titles were tied to sects as the rules did not distinguish Independent titles in any way from Camarilla or Sabbat titles in handling. Was there a ruling on the same? I would be more comfortable with this from LSJ. A shame, but gamers prefer authority to logic, in my experience. Thanks for the note.

On Wed, 22 Nov 2005, Defender of Ra wrote: >> Whilst those "X has 2 votes" style titles are only found on vampires who >> are printed as Independent, the title is *not* tied to clan or sect. > > That is not what the rulebook implied to me. Not that I mind that being > the case, mind you -- I think the hostility of anarchism to indepedent > titles is contrary to theme and common sense and like independent > titles to be as flexible as possible. Following the owner to a sect isn't flexible? Anarchism is a rebellious movement, it *should* take effort (i.e. Anarch Secession) to become Anarch while maintaining your temporal power (i.e. votes). > But, still, it seemed to me that all titles were tied to sects as the > rules did not distinguish Independent titles in any way from Camarilla > or Sabbat titles in handling. Independent is not a Sect. Was there a ruling on the same? I would be more comfortable > with this from LSJ. A shame, but gamers prefer authority to logic, in > my experience. > Search for it on Google Groups. He's said it roughly a billion times. And that Authoritarian comment ignores the fact that LSJ is a mathematician, and the rules and rulings follow consistent logic. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] All of the sect allegiances and clan allegiances are listed in the various sub-sections of section 10. Any title with no clan allegiance listed has no clan allegiance. Any title with no sect allegiance listed has no sect allegiance. All of the independent titles "Jane has 2 votes" are not tied to any sect or clan. -- That is my story, be it bitter or be it sweet. Keep a little and let a little come back to me. LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply) http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

In message <2005112305...@sidehack.gweep.net>, Gregory Stuart Pettigrew <ethe...@sidehack.gweep.net> writes: >On Wed, 22 Nov 2005, Defender of Ra wrote: >> But, still, it seemed to me that all titles were tied to sects as the >>rules did not distinguish Independent titles in any way from Camarilla >>or Sabbat titles in handling. > >Independent is not a Sect. Incorrect. Independent is a sect in every way. It does not mean "No sect", though in many ways that's what it means from the backstory. In V:TES, however, it is a sect. e.g. a vampire created by Waters of Duat will inherit the Independent sect from its Setite creator (assuming they were Independent). Note also that it does have at least one title tied to Independent as a sect - Liaison, from Rise of the Nephtali. [ quoted text not captured ]

"James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:6gYdeFJR...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk... > In message <2005112305...@sidehack.gweep.net>, Gregory Stuart > Pettigrew <ethe...@sidehack.gweep.net> writes: >>Independent is not a Sect. > > Incorrect. Independent is a sect in every way. ...except for the part where the rules say, "Other clans are not aligned with a major sect; they are called Independent." Some people might think that a thing that was "wasn't aligned with a major sect" wasn't a "sect in every way". Just me. I suppose a person could conclude that Independents are a minor sect yet a "sect in every way". At least a person can conclude that now that they've reworded the rules a bit to incorporate the Laibon Sect. > It does not mean "No sect", If so, for the life of me I cannot figure why they don't just SAY that straight out in the rules. It seems an easy point to trip over, as is. This is one of the those places where I just shrug to myself and say, "Hmmm, I guess the rules writers enjoy creating some confusion..." Fred

Gregory Stuart Pettigrew wrote: > > That is not what the rulebook implied to me. Not that I mind that being > > the case, mind you -- I think the hostility of anarchism to indepedent > > titles is contrary to theme and common sense and like independent > > titles to be as flexible as possible. > > Following the owner to a sect isn't flexible? Anarchism is a rebellious > movement, it *should* take effort (i.e. Anarch Secession) to become Anarch > while maintaining your temporal power (i.e. votes). > As Independent votes are tied to a power base separate from both the Anarch movement and _the_forces_anarchs_rebel_against_, it is illogical for a titled Independent to find supporting said movement more difficult than an untitled Camarilla vampire. The Followers of Set and the Salubri have put no organized resistance to the Anarch movement in canon, nor would they have reason to -- but many, many independent organizations would have good reason to back the Anarch movement, whereas the Camarilla/Sabbat would do their damndest to make unlife unpleasant for turncoats. In fact, factions within the Anarch movement may well welcome outside support from some factions (Assamites sound like good allies -- similar disdain or hatred for Camarilla/Sabbat and an at least cognizable sense of honor.) The ccg difficulty of titled Independents transitioning to Anarch is disproportionately high when compared to the difficulty of a Sabbat/Camarilla vampire transitioning, and thus unthematic. But that's the least of the ccg's theme issues; I do not think it a huge problem. > > But, still, it seemed to me that all titles were tied to sects as the > > rules did not distinguish Independent titles in any way from Camarilla > > or Sabbat titles in handling. > > Independent is not a Sect. There seems some debate upon that above. The rulebook makes it impossible to determine this without a ruling. The beginning of the sect discussion in the rules implies that what will be described next is a series of sects (including Independent), while the phrase "the other major sect" when discussing the Sabbat implies the Cam/Sabbat are the *only* two sects (this is the pre-LoB rulebook). I am quite willing to buy that Independent is not a sect from LSJ (who has said as much here, more or less -- thanks for that), but, to be clear, this was not clear from the rules. > Search for it on Google Groups. He's said it roughly a billion times. I suspect it was slightly less; I did search it. Wonder what causes this bristling hyperbole. >And > that Authoritarian comment ignores the fact that LSJ is a mathematician, > and the rules and rulings follow consistent logic. And your response, ironically enough, resorts to arguing that LSJ's rulings are viable because of his authority: e.g., he is a mathematician. Mathematicians make mistakes -- LSJ has reversed himself before -- so saying that he rules based on "consistent logic" is meaningless, especially sense I never implied anything else, nor cast any aspersions against him. I implied that his rulings settle more arguments amongst my peers than our debates would. Thanks for the comment LSJ. -- DoR

"Defender of Ra" <rules...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1132785979.0...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... >> Independent is not a Sect. > > There seems some debate upon that above. Not really. The last time I tried to assume the same statement, I was hastily corrected by LSJ who stated in no uncertain terms that Independent is a sect, just as James claims. (And, yes, if you search, I believe you will find a fair number of references to this.) My comments were not intended by way of debate since it strikes me as silly to debate about the rules with the guy who writes the rules. Rather, they were just some dry observations to the effect that the rules are not as clear about this as they could be. Fred

Fred Scott wrote: > "Defender of Ra" <rules...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:1132785979.0...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > >> Independent is not a Sect. > > > > There seems some debate upon that above. > > Not really. The last time I tried to assume the same statement, I > was hastily corrected by LSJ who stated in no uncertain terms that > Independent is a sect, just as James claims. James and Gregory seemed to disagree. But fair enough: Independent is a sect. I didn't care about the journey, only the destination. And it's what I thought, anyway (Waters of Duat card convinced me, too, when I read it). Of course, this is all moot for me, personally, since I still don't have enough copies of Anarch Secession to make the issue a pratical one. :-/ -- DoR

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005, Defender of Ra wrote: > Gregory Stuart Pettigrew wrote: >,> And >> that Authoritarian comment ignores the fact that LSJ is a mathematician, >> and the rules and rulings follow consistent logic. > > And your response, ironically enough, resorts to arguing that LSJ's > rulings are viable because of his authority: e.g., he is a > mathematician. Sorry, I cut the phrase "and a damned good one" and reformatted the sentence improperly. Even then, I argued the viability of his rulings to be based on their logic, providing evidence of his training with it, not on the authority of said diploma. > Mathematicians make mistakes -- LSJ has reversed himself > before -- so saying that he rules based on "consistent logic" is > meaningless, The logic is consistent. That he sometimes rushes to make a ruling and trips on himself (I do the same thing) is the cause of my previous ire: There's a litany of rulings he's made many many times and I find it silly at best to ask him to make them again. I'd rather he have more time to make new rulings and not trip on himself. > especially sense I never implied anything else, nor cast any aspersions > against him. I implied that his rulings settle more arguments amongst my > peers than our debates would. > I read "I would be more comfortable with this from LSJ. A shame, but gamers prefer authority to logic, in my experience." to imply that you thought his rulings were capricious and only held weight because of his authority. That doesn't seem to be what you meant, so I apologize. [ quoted text not captured ]

"Defender of Ra" <rules...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1132723076....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > ...gamers prefer authority to logic, in my experience. That's because the former seems to yield correct results a *LOT* more consistently! (Possible error in perception: that one person might reason 'logically' in the same manner as another. Seldom happens at this level of complexity and when it does, is usually attributable to random chance.) Fred

In message <1132785979.0...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Defender of Ra <rules...@hotmail.com> writes: >As Independent votes are tied to a power base separate from both the >Anarch movement and _the_forces_anarchs_rebel_against_, it is illogical >for a titled Independent to find supporting said movement more >difficult than an untitled Camarilla vampire. From the backstory, perhaps. You can argue the toss on that, one way or the other. However, remember that the backstory is used for inspiration. Sometimes, kludges have to be made to make things appropriate for the card game, or the designers feel that something is inappropriate from the card game angle. [ quoted text not captured ]