DELAYING TACTICS (LSJ)

Greetings Mr. LSJ ! What's happening when my prey plays a delaying tactics ? Can I call another referendum with the same Vampire ? Many thanks for the answer François Alix

"François Alix" <al...@club-internet.fr> wrote: > What's happening when my prey plays a delaying tactics ? The political action is canceled. The acting vampire is untapped. The controller of the acting vampire takes the political card (if any) back into his or her hand. His or her vampires become unable to take the same political action for the remainder of the turn. > Can I call another referendum with the same Vampire ? Yes, unless you're using the "No Repeat Action" special floor rule from the V:EKN Tournament Rules. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

"François Alix" <al...@club-internet.fr> writes: > Greetings Mr. LSJ ! > What's happening when my prey plays a delaying tactics ? > Can I call another referendum with the same Vampire ? If playing with No Repeat Actions, as per tournament rules, no. -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D Standard disclaimers apply to this post. Full written details available upon request. Your statutory rights are not affected.

In article <96724c$lle$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > "François Alix" <al...@club-internet.fr> wrote: > > What's happening when my prey plays a delaying tactics ? > > The political action is canceled. > > Can I call another referendum with the same Vampire ? > > Yes, unless you're using the "No Repeat Action" special floor rule > from the V:EKN Tournament Rules. > I was under the impression that a canceled action was concidered never to have taken place therefore NRA would not apply. please clarify. thanks, Eric [ quoted text not captured ]

torpor...@my-deja.com writes: > I was under the impression that a canceled action was concidered never > to have taken place therefore NRA would not apply. please clarify. That something is cancelled does not mean it did not happen. e.g. only one giant's blood can be played per game, even if the first one was Suddenly Reversed. -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D "Definitely a woman" - www.thespark.com/ [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <2wpugog...@kern.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk>, James Coupe <jr...@srcf.ucam.org> wrote: > torpor...@my-deja.com writes: > > > I was under the impression that a canceled action was concidered never > > to have taken place therefore NRA would not apply. please clarify. > > That something is cancelled does not mean it did not happen. > > e.g. only one giant's blood can be played per game, even if the first > one was Suddenly Reversed. > but in another thread LSJ says See the online rulings: No Repeat Actions (V:EKN) * The acting minion when the action resolves (blocked or successful) becomes unable to perform the same type of action again this turn (if the "No Repeat Actions" V:EKN special floor rule is being used). [RTR 20-MAR-1997] -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ the delayed vote never resolved so NRA does not apply correct? thanks [ quoted text not captured ]

torpor...@my-deja.com wrote: > James Coupe <jr...@srcf.ucam.org> wrote: > > torpor...@my-deja.com writes: > > > I was under the impression that a canceled action was concidered > never > > > to have taken place therefore NRA would not apply. please clarify. > > > > That something is cancelled does not mean it did not happen. > > e.g. only one giant's blood can be played per game, even if the > > first one was Suddenly Reversed. > > > > but in another thread LSJ says > > See the online rulings: > > No Repeat Actions (V:EKN) > * The acting minion when the action resolves (blocked or successful) > becomes unable to perform the same type of action again this turn > (if the "No Repeat Actions" V:EKN special floor rule is being > used). [RTR 20-MAR-1997] > > the delayed vote never resolved so NRA does not apply correct? The political action reached the resolution phase (i.e., it wasn't blocked) - it must get to that stage before Delaying Tactics can be played. Therefore, the acting minion cannot perform another political action again, since the one he just performed was successful (even though the referendum was canceled). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

> > > > but in another thread LSJ says > > > > See the online rulings: > > > > No Repeat Actions (V:EKN) > > * The acting minion when the action resolves (blocked or successful) > > becomes unable to perform the same type of action again this turn > > (if the "No Repeat Actions" V:EKN special floor rule is being > > used). [RTR 20-MAR-1997] > > > > the delayed vote never resolved so NRA does not apply correct? > > The political action reached the resolution phase (i.e., it wasn't > blocked) - it must get to that stage before Delaying Tactics can > be played. Therefore, the acting minion cannot perform another > political action again, since the one he just performed was successful > (even though the referendum was canceled). > > -- > LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. > Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ > > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/ > I see so your saying that the resolution of a political action and the resolution of a referendum are 2 different things? thanks Eric [ quoted text not captured ]

torpor...@my-deja.com wrote: > [uncited quote snipped] > I see so your saying that the resolution of a political action and the > resolution of a referendum are 2 different things? > Yes. [6.1.7], [6.2.3], [6.3.1], [6.3.2] [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <968n63$tqu$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > torpor...@my-deja.com wrote: > > [uncited quote snipped] > > I see so your saying that the resolution of a political action and the > > resolution of a referendum are 2 different things? > > > > Yes. [6.1.7], [6.2.3], [6.3.1], [6.3.2] > since this is the case shouldn't delaying tactics be reworded Delaying Tactics [Jyhad, V:TES] Cardtype: Reaction Any vampire. Only usable during a political action. The political action is canceled. Untap the acting vampire. The controller of the acting <vampire> takes the political card (if any) back into his or her hand, and his or her <vampires> cannot take the same political action this turn. shouldn't it read only during a referendum as is the case with Elder kindred network and pulling strings. as it reads now my point is still valid thanks Eric not arguing just trying to get this straight in my head [ quoted text not captured ]

torpor...@my-deja.com wrote: > since this is the case shouldn't delaying tactics be reworded > > Delaying Tactics [Jyhad, V:TES] > Cardtype: Reaction > Any vampire. Only usable during a political action. The political > action is canceled. Untap the acting vampire. The controller of the > acting <vampire> takes the political card (if any) back into his or > her hand, and his or her <vampires> cannot take the same political > action this turn. > > shouldn't it read only during a referendum as is the case with Elder > kindred network and pulling strings. > > as it reads now my point is still valid See [6.3.2] - "during political action" means "during referendum". -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <968plp$vp7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > torpor...@my-deja.com wrote: > > since this is the case shouldn't delaying tactics be reworded > > > > Delaying Tactics [Jyhad, V:TES] > > Cardtype: Reaction > > Any vampire. Only usable during a political action. The political > > action is canceled. Untap the acting vampire. The controller of the > > acting <vampire> takes the political card (if any) back into his or > > her hand, and his or her <vampires> cannot take the same political > > action this turn. > > > > shouldn't it read only during a referendum as is the case with Elder > > kindred network and pulling strings. > > > > as it reads now my point is still valid > > See [6.3.2] - "during political action" means "during referendum". > ok so 2 questions 1.why the change to pulling strings and EKN? 2.Shouldn't it read the referendum is canceled? it specifys the action is canceled and by my logic a canceled action never resolves therefore no NRA violation. thanks Eric Getting more confused by the minute [ quoted text not captured ]

torpor...@my-deja.com wrote: > 1.why the change to pulling strings and EKN? Clarity. No real change. > 2.Shouldn't it read the referendum is canceled? No. For instance, you cannot Freak Drive after the politcal action is canceled. > it specifys the action is canceled and by my logic a canceled action > never resolves therefore no NRA violation. That's not the logic to use. Canceling something doesn't make it so that it never happened. You can't use DT to cancel the PA until it resolves, so it is still treated as resolved. See also Sudden Reversal and Direct Intervention. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ wrote: > torpor...@my-deja.com wrote: > > since this is the case shouldn't delaying tactics be reworded > > > > Delaying Tactics [Jyhad, V:TES] > > Cardtype: Reaction > > Any vampire. Only usable during a political action. The political > > action is canceled. Untap the acting vampire. The controller of the > > acting <vampire> takes the political card (if any) back into his or > > her hand, and his or her <vampires> cannot take the same political > > action this turn. > > > > shouldn't it read only during a referendum as is the case with Elder > > kindred network and pulling strings. > > > > as it reads now my point is still valid > > See [6.3.2] - "during political action" means "during referendum". > > 6.3.2 reads ""A card that uses the phrase"during a political action" is typically referring to the referendum part of the political action"" using all current card texts for political reactions one could easily conclude that Delaying Tactics is the atypical instance referred to in section 6.3.2 the horse is now dead and I shall put away my whip thanks Eric ( was torpor_bound before deja blew up)

Perfectly clear !! Thanks very much for the clarification many regards, Mr LSJ François Alix, Toreador Primogen from Paris "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> a écrit dans le message news: 96724c$lle$1...@nnrp1.deja.com... [ quoted text not captured ]