rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

LSJ: haunting on an empty vampire

2 messages from 2 participants · 12 May 2009
original thread on Google Groups

Chris Berger

This came up in the Imperator tournament on Saturday. I had two vampires that had Haunting on them (or is it "The" Haunting? The dementation card that causes them to burn a blood during untap), and who also had Vessels. I also had 2 Hunting Grounds in play (giving Santaleous 3 base bleed =) ). My prey mentioned that I could take a blood off of them via Vessel, thus leaving them empty, then resolve Haunting's effect to burn a blood from them, and then use the Hunting Ground to put a blood on them. It wasn't terribly important at the time, so I decided that I couldn't do that. It is my belief that you can't leave your untap phase with a blood on that minion if the minion didn't burn a blood due to Haunting's effect. I figured that you couldn't say "I burn a blood for Haunting" when you don't have a blood, and then gain blood later. Much like you can't say "I resolve Anarch Revolt now, while I have a single Anarch, and then my Anarch burns from Society of Leopold", because after the Society of Leopold burns your Anarch, you now have an effect to resolve from Anarch Revolt. The situation isn't entirely parallel though, because Anarch Revolt only gives you an effect to resolve if you *don't* have an Anarch. Haunting *always* forces you to burn a blood - if you don't have a blood, then you ignore the effect. So, the question is: is it legal to resolve it when the burn blood effect will be ignored, and then gain a blood later? I can see it both ways, so in the tournament, I just went along with the path of least resistance (pulling blood from the Vessel and then hunting normally) because it didn't matter much at the time, my vamps hunts weren't getting blocked, and I had other vampires who could use the HG blood.

LSJ

Chris Berger wrote: > This came up in the Imperator tournament on Saturday. I had two > vampires that had Haunting on them (or is it "The" Haunting? The > dementation card that causes them to burn a blood during untap), The Haunting. Haunt (no "ing") is a location mod. > and > who also had Vessels. I also had 2 Hunting Grounds in play (giving > Santaleous 3 base bleed =) ). My prey mentioned that I could take a > blood off of them via Vessel, thus leaving them empty, then resolve > Haunting's effect to burn a blood from them, and then use the Hunting > Ground to put a blood on them. True. > It wasn't terribly important at the time, so I decided that I couldn't > do that. It is my belief that you can't leave your untap phase with a > blood on that minion if the minion didn't burn a blood due to > Haunting's effect. I figured that you couldn't say "I burn a blood > for Haunting" when you don't have a blood, and then gain blood later. You can. The effect is "burn 1 blood", and it exists (waiting to be ordered) whether you have a blood or not. If it resolves when you are empty, then you still apply the effect (and burn no blood, since you have none). > Much like you can't say "I resolve Anarch Revolt now, while I have a > single Anarch, and then my Anarch burns from Society of Leopold", > because after the Society of Leopold burns your Anarch, you now have > an effect to resolve from Anarch Revolt. Yeah, that's different. There's no "burn pool" effect for you to resolve when you have a ready anarch, so there no effect to order among your other effects. If the effect was "during your untap phase, burn 1-X pool, where X is the number of ready anarchs you control", then that effect would still exist to be ordered even if you have a ready anarch, so you could escape burning pool by ordering it before your anarch becomes unready. But it's not. > The situation isn't entirely parallel though, because Anarch Revolt > only gives you an effect to resolve if you *don't* have an Anarch. > Haunting *always* forces you to burn a blood - if you don't have a > blood, then you ignore the effect. Exactly. > So, the question is: is it legal > to resolve it when the burn blood effect will be ignored, and then > gain a blood later? Yes.