Wallpaper cards...

I have been lurking on this newsgroup and I have just recently started playing Jyhad (6 months). I read the term "Wallpaper Cards" often. I assume this means useless cards or cards you have "too many" of. I can see certain cards being useless in certain decks, but a generally useless card is hard to come up with. I am curious what the people on this newsgroup think are wallpaper cards. To be more specific I mean cards you would _never_ put in a deck, regardless of deck configuration. -- Jim Freeman P: mam...@tiac.net W: jfre...@darwin.bu.edu Programmer/Analyst at Bio-Molecular Engineering Center at BU Etiam unum capillum umbram suam habet. http://www.tiac.net/users/mammon/index.html

> I have been lurking on this newsgroup and I have just recently started > playing Jyhad (6 months). I read the term "Wallpaper Cards" often. I > assume this means useless cards or cards you have "too many" of. I can > see certain cards being useless in certain decks, but a generally > useless card is hard to come up with. I am curious what the people on > this newsgroup think are wallpaper cards. To be more specific I mean > cards you would _never_ put in a deck, regardless of deck configuration. A very good example of a wallpaper card is Mercy for the weak from AH. Powerbase washington, blood puppy, protracted investment, gird minions, homonculus, Illegal search and seizure are good ones too...

Patrick Drapeau wrote: > > I am curious what the people on > > this newsgroup think are wallpaper cards. To be more specific I mean > > cards you would _never_ put in a deck, regardless of deck configuration. > > A very good example of a wallpaper card is Mercy for the weak from AH. > Powerbase washington, blood puppy, protracted investment, gird minions, > homonculus, Illegal search and seizure are good ones too... At one point there was a too long thread on whether PI qualified for wallpaper, and I am still unconvinced that it is. However, homonculus has saved me from being ousted at least once (untap at the end of turn for one blood). I agree on the other ones though. I use Gird Minions for my proxy cards. Chris Chris

> Patrick Drapeau wrote: > > > A very good example of a wallpaper card is Mercy for the weak from > > AH. Powerbase washington, blood puppy, protracted investment, gird > > minions, homonculus, Illegal search and seizure are good ones too... Well, things like PB Washington, and Blood Puppy are useful as bait in a intercept/combat deck. Any of the ante cards are wallpaper in the groups I've played in, because nobody ever wants to play for ante. Those have got to be the biggest example of wallpaper in a non-ante environment. -- David Kent -aka- Constant Hazard \----------------------/ \ haz...@potomac.net / \------------------/

For immediate cost, Short Term Investment is my prefered choice over Protracted Investment. The two pool saved on a STI have kept me alive long enough to began sucking from the card and gain control of the edge. <shrug> -j

On Fri, 9 Aug 1996, James Freeman wrote: > I have been lurking on this newsgroup and I have just recently started > playing Jyhad (6 months). I read the term "Wallpaper Cards" often. I > assume this means useless cards or cards you have "too many" of. Yes to the first, no to the second. In Jyhad, if a card is useful, there is no such thing as having "too many", because it can always be put into a deck. Unlike Magic, commons are useful in that you might find 8 in a deck, if need be. > I can > see certain cards being useless in certain decks, but a generally > useless card is hard to come up with. I am curious what the people on > this newsgroup think are wallpaper cards. To be more specific I mean > cards you would _never_ put in a deck, regardless of deck configuration. A number of Dark Sovereigns cards come to mind... @ The Corrupter - Adrian Lee Sullivan @ GAT/CS/WS R+++* r(+)>++ # Gamer Coffee-Addict Scripter Author # C(+++)$ USX+$ N++ e+* @#$ Comments ? sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu $#@ tv(+)> X++ b++(+++) @#$ <http://cslab.uwlax.edu/~sulli_al/jyhad> $#@ PS+&-+ PE&-&++ z*+?

Patrick Drapeau wrote: [Re: What are wallpaper cards] > A very good example of a wallpaper card is Mercy for the weak from AH. I can see this card being mildly useful, though I can't imagine more than 2 in a deck. > Powerbase washington, blood puppy, protracted investment, gird minions, > homonculus, Illegal search and seizure are good ones too... Powerbase: Washington can be used as bait (as can blood puppy), homonculus works wonders in either a run-away intercept deck guarding a blood machine, or other intercept decks (though I don't feel as well). Protracted Investment is good as well. Compare: Ascendance: 1 blood 1 turn Short Term: 2 blood 4 turns Protracted: 3 blood 7 turns While the other two give more blood per turn used, Protracted takes up only _one_ card slot in a deck. Gird Minions I find occasionally useful in some combat decks or decks that rely on very few minions. Illegal Search and Seizure is too difficult to put into most decks. It is a card that relies on your opponent too much to make useful. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Sun, 11 Aug 1996, Constant Hazard wrote: > Any of the ante cards are wallpaper in the groups I've played in, > because nobody ever wants to play for ante. Those have got to be the > biggest example of wallpaper in a non-ante environment. True. Form a league and play for ante for league cards. It works well. If you are interested in league rules used by the Madison Jyhad League (not game rules, but League Rules (scoring, ante, etc.)) let me know. My deck worked its way up from 1 ante card to 4. People were often scared to play, for fear of losing 4 cards! :) [ quoted text not captured ]

> Protracted Investment is good as well. Compare: > Ascendance: 1 blood 1 turn > Short Term: 2 blood 4 turns > Protracted: 3 blood 7 turns > While the other two give more blood per turn used, Protracted takes up > only _one_ card slot in a deck. I cant agree with such a comparison: PI takes only one card slot in your deck and and but still take 7 master phases to be usefull. I personnally use my master phases for better actions than taking back blood i spent on a card. And think about having your hand half full of masters... And if you draw it in ther last turns of a game: it takes only one card slot AND your sole discard phase... That is only my opinion. Patrick Drapeau

In article <Pine.NXT.3.91.960811210416.12163H-100000@pentode> The Corrupter <sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu> writes: >On Sun, 11 Aug 1996, Constant Hazard wrote: > >> Any of the ante cards are wallpaper in the groups I've played in, [snip] >True. Form a league and play for ante for league cards. It works well. >If you are interested in league rules used by the Madison Jyhad League >(not game rules, but League Rules (scoring, ante, etc.)) let me know. I'd like to see them, and maybe others would too. Would you mind posting them? -- Tom Doehne doe...@cse.ogi.edu doe...@agora.rdrop.com

On 12 Aug 1996, Thomas Doehne wrote: > the Corrupter <sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu> writes: > [snip Re: Madison Jyhad League] > >If you are interested in league rules used by the Madison Jyhad League > >(not game rules, but League Rules (scoring, ante, etc.)) let me know. > I'd like to see them, and maybe others would too. Would you mind > posting them? Not a problem. When I get time, I'm going to add these to my Jyhad page under "Upstart Bloodlines", a section on alternate rules (which I've been gathering data for, but not putting up yet. If anyone has any alternate ways to play Jyhad, mail me...) ------------------------------- The Madison Jyhad League A System for Playing Jyhad Setup: League would require at least 6 players to get started (and have run well). Each player buys a starter and 3 boosters (their choice). After opening their cards, a player has one week to draft in 3 vampires of their choice from outside their sealed cards. Marking the Cards: After opening their cards, each player permanently marks their cards with a permanent marker or pen with a special, unique symbol (for example, mine was an 'o', another person used a Cross, another a woman-symbol) in the bottom left of the card. These marks symbolize current ownership of cards. If a card changes ownership, the new owner places their mark to the right of the most recent mark. New players must mark their cards in front of the league organizer, or two other league members. Trading: Trading of any league cards for any other league members cards is allowed. As this is a change of ownership, the new cards must be marked by the new owner. Trading is highly important, not only for ranking (below) but as preparation for future games. Intelligent players often trade for cards that their deck can't use but that they know could be devastating to their deck. Ranking: A player with more league cards is said to be higher ranked than a player with fewer league cards. Playing: A league game is defined as any Jyhad game played with only league cards for ante. The highest ranked player at a league game sits down first (a disadvantage), and in order of rank the remaining players choose their predator/prey out of the players seated. Thus, the lowest ranked person gets the final choice of who their predator or prey will be (an advantage). After seating is determined, the highest ranked player determines who goes first. Deck Construction: Players may make decks as per normal Jyhad rules (12 minimum Crypt, 40 + 10*players crypt max). The rest of the cards are sideboard and trade-stock. A player always has the option to change their deck composition between games, and many times has to (to stay under maximum size). Protected Ante: THREE cards are set in the ante pile. This pile is face up or face down, depenging on a vote of the table. This pile can be looked at by its own if the table allows. When someone is ousted, their predator looks at the cards in the ante pile and returns one of them to their original owner. The owner then looks at the remaining cards and returns one to his deck. The remaining cards go to the predator. (Thus, if someone played a High Stakes, the predator would win 2 cards) Since ownership has changed, these cards are marked, even if they will be traded back to their original owner immediately. Winning the League: At the end of the League, the winner is the player with the most league cards. Because each card has a value in the league, it is not uncommon to see a common, useful card like a Bum's Rush traded for 2 uncommons or rares. Good trading is almost as important as good playing. Notes: It is important to note how important trading is for playing in this league format. Few people will be able to get ahold of many cards for their strategy in just their sealed decks, but trading can alleviate that. Also, new players (who can join anytime with this system) are at a large disadvantage since they will have already missed the early trading when everyone had something that someone else could use. This system also allows people to "bottom out". If someone wants to make a new league deck, they turn in their current league cards as a prize for the winner. League members should be able to play each other at any time they want to get together (phone lists are helpful) and there should also be set times to increase the amount of large games seen. Another important thing to mention is that a league member need not play in league games if they don't want to. By intelligently choosing who you play and who you don't, your chances of winning increase. Any house rules your group uses should work out just fine. Card limit players should note that due to the limited supply of cards and the way trading works, card limits in this environment would be superfluous. ------------------ We had quite a bit of fun with the league. I ended up coming in second out of 27 players. The variety of the decks was actually quite interesting. My own league deck became an inspiration for me, and caused me to build a new deck. Towards the end of the league, people had begun to fear playing me (and would often refuse) because I had _4_ ante cards in my deck... If anyone else has league rules that they use, I would love to see them, post them and e-mail them to me so I can add them to my alternate Jyhad games archive. Comments are appreciated. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Most decks will use STI or Ascendence rather than PI, but there are some decks that prefer PI. In particular, decks that use a _lot_ of minion cards quickly and that don't want to jammed with masters might prefer PI. A rush combat deck might easily run through 12 cards in a turn and therefore might want a very low number of masters getting in the way, say 5 Haven Uncovered and 3 to 4 PI. --Eric

The Corrupter wrote: > > On Fri, 9 Aug 1996, James Freeman wrote: > > > I have been lurking on this newsgroup and I have just recently started > > playing Jyhad (6 months). I read the term "Wallpaper Cards" often. I > > assume this means useless cards or cards you have "too many" of. > > Yes to the first, no to the second. In Jyhad, if a card is useful, there > is no such thing as having "too many", because it can always be put into > a deck. Unlike Magic, commons are useful in that you might find 8 in a > deck, if need be. > This much is true I 25 of some commons and find I still am searching for them Flash comes to mind because I have it in about 4 different decks I don't like to pull my decks apart so I leave them together,and having multiples of cards is great! > > I can > > see certain cards being useless in certain decks, but a generally > > useless card is hard to come up with. I am curious what the people on > > this newsgroup think are wallpaper cards. To be more specific I mean > > cards you would _never_ put in a deck, regardless of deck configuration. > > A number of Dark Sovereigns cards come to mind... >Could'nt agree with you more,DS has alot of Wall Paper. My Wall paper cards would be All Ante cards Some of the P.S. (with 3 sets you only need so many) Mercy for the Weak Deer Rifle Growing Fury (most 2nd round combat decks are to deadly for this Card) Illegal Search and Seizure PB Washington (I still prefer BR to get into combat) The 1st Tradition Trap (theres so many combat decks that this card really is not needed someone is in topor by the 3rd round anyway so why bother) Gird Minions Als army apparatus (vast wealth is 10x better, this is theme deck materail) Errol T.

> My Wall paper cards would be > > All Ante cards > Some of the P.S. (with 3 sets you only need so many) > Mercy for the Weak > Deer Rifle > Growing Fury (most 2nd round combat decks are to deadly for this Card) > Illegal Search and Seizure > PB Washington (I still prefer BR to get into combat) > The 1st Tradition > Trap (theres so many combat decks that this card really is not needed > someone is in topor by the 3rd round anyway so why bother) > Gird Minions > Als army apparatus (vast wealth is 10x better, this is theme deck > materail) > > Errol T. I must disagree for trap. My Ravnos deck would not be that feared if i didnt play Illusion of the Kindred with a trap and an apparition... With Sensory deprivation, this is often the cause of abandon for my prey or predator. Yes, combat decks can kill on the first round. Hmmm... Brujah, toreador and Assamites dodges, additional strikes and Gangrel gets you in torpor. But think about (another one of my favs) the Tremere combat deck... You dont have ANY press to continue combat in thaumaturgy... So you need this trap to burrow 2 blod on the first round and turn your opponents blood into water on the second before making walk into flames directly to the ash heap... For ante cards, lets say that WE play ante. Thats one of the reason why i quit magic for this game: in magic people whine and dont even consider thinking about maybe losing their 15$ cards (suckers...). We have a house rule tought... If you win a card from another person, this person have the priority for an exchange for one week. It usually goes like this: you lose a card: you make a reasonable offer in front of everybody who was in the game, people discuss the equivalence and usually accept fair trades. Now... for ante cards, contuctor motion if a must for a vote deck. If i had to ante an Hostile Takeover, ill do concoctor motion and move my card to my prey and suicide attack him or her just to oust him or her and get back my precious card. High stakes usually makes me win but get people grumpy... But for the others (like Playing for keeps) are useless. Patrick Drapeau

In article <Pine.NXT.3.91.960812135145.12530I-100000@pentode> The Corrupter <sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu> writes: [snip] >The Madison Jyhad League >A System for Playing Jyhad [snip] This all looks good, and very playable. I especially like the format for deciding what is a 'league' game. >Winning the League: [snip] >Notes: >It is important to note how important trading is for playing in this >league format. Few people will be able to get ahold of many cards for >their strategy in just their sealed decks, but trading can alleviate >that. Also, new players (who can join anytime with this system) are at a >large disadvantage since they will have already missed the early trading >when everyone had something that someone else could use. This system >also allows people to "bottom out". This is a common problem in leagues like this (based on my experience with Magic Leagues). There are a couple of solutions: 1. set up a draft league, with 'seasons', and redraft at the beginning of each season. This only alleviates the problem somewhat. 2. Publish standings periodically, and allow the players at the bottom of the league to add one or more boosters to their set of cards. People with lower standings get to add more boosters. This seems to work quite well. -- Tom Doehne doe...@cse.ogi.edu

Errol (etre...@compusmart.ab.ca) wrote: : My Wall paper cards would be : All Ante cards : Some of the P.S. (with 3 sets you only need so many) : Mercy for the Weak : Deer Rifle This is particularly useful in non-combat decks, such as Malk S&B, as it allows you to avoid the focus of Gangrel combat almost entirely and neutralize most of the particularly nasty combat effects from other decks. : Growing Fury (most 2nd round combat decks are to deadly for this Card) not with an Immortal Grapple thrown in for good luck : Illegal Search and Seizure : PB Washington (I still prefer BR to get into combat) But BR doesn't have the potential to gain you pool in the intirim : The 1st Tradition of limited use, perhaps, but can be deadly in certain circumstances : Trap (theres so many combat decks that this card really is not needed : someone is in topor by the 3rd round anyway so why bother) Great fun in an Malk "What the Hell?" deck (trap when you go to combat with a Brujah) and of good use with undead persistance, so that you can hose your opponent despite the fact that you've taken 45 normal damage in the course of combat. : Gird Minions Can be useful (someone else address this already) : Als army apparatus (vast wealth is 10x better, this is theme deck : materail) Vast Wealth requires a blockable action, and doesn't allow the choice of weapon. Vast wealth is about 1.0 times better, at the most. Especially playing Concealed Weapon as I and many others believe it should be (disciplineless), Al's becomes of great use. : Errol T. And you missed the most wallpaperish of them all, that lovely chainsaw which deals three damage, not modifiable and not ranged. Forest of Shadows, IMO, is more of wallpaper than most of those listed above as it requires 3 pool and becomes a combat lure for anyone wanting to smash the Malks, as it is burnable. More a liability than a help in the one turn you'll get to use it. There are many others like the Forest in DS; far too many for my taste. Wallpaper Paste for all those useless cards

[ quoted text not captured ] I am of the opinion that STI is strictly better than PI... only if you are not going to play with very many Master cards. It takes four master actions merely to recoup your loss off of PI (includes the initial play). In that time, you can be completely done with a STI. -- --Shawn F. Carnes Game Designer and Developer, Wizards of the Coast, Inc WotC NetRep for rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad ************************************************************* "We cannot rest, knowing that The Captain and Tennille are in good health!" --Milk and Cheese

On Mon, 19 Aug 1996, Shawn F. Carnes wrote: > I am of the opinion that STI is strictly better than PI... only if you > are not going to play with very many Master cards. It takes four > master actions merely to recoup your loss off of PI (includes the > initial play). In that time, you can be completely done with a STI. In a deck with fewer masters and little deck space, PI is strictly better. [ quoted text not captured ]

> The Corrupter wrote: > > In a deck with fewer masters and little deck space, PI is strictly > better. Of course, if you can't spare the pool for a PI, STI works better. Decks with PI's have to be able to recoup the 3 pool loss fairly quickly-multiple Master actions, other ways of gaining pool. It's annoying to draw a PI in the endgame, and realize that the PI will kill you, or let your predator kill you more easily, where a STI would have let you live a little longer.

The Corrupter wrote: > In a deck with fewer masters and little deck space, PI is strictly better. Precisely my implication. I personally prefer a richer master environment in almost all of my constaruction, therefore I use STI much more than I would PI. Still, PI allows those decks without much masters not to simply waste their master action. I guess it, as with everything else, breaks down to personal opinion. [ quoted text not captured ]

Shawn F. Carnes wrote: > I personally prefer a richer master > environment in almost all of my constaruction, therefore I use STI much > more than I would PI. Still, PI allows those decks without much masters > not to simply waste their master action. > > I guess it, as with everything else, breaks down to personal opinion. > --Shawn F. Carnes Yup. There is also the matter of card limits; for example, our group uses a limit of one of each master card... like the investments. This means that Ascendance is just about as wallpaperish you can get while both investments are included in every deck (well, almost). Anders Bylund #o# O

Anders Bylund wrote: > [CLIP] > Yup. There is also the matter of card limits; for example, our group > uses a limit of one of each master card... like the investments. This > means that Ascendance is just about as wallpaperish you can get while > both investments are included in every deck (well, almost). Anders, what is the reasoning behind the one master rule. Do you make exceptions for things like Contracts? I hope so. Otherwise this is way too harsh! Robert ...................................................................... :The opinions expressed here are strictly my own delusional ramblings: :and do not reflect the opinions of The Walt Disney Company. : : : :Robert Goudie robert...@studio.disney.com: :....................................................................: :cigars * v:tes * car rallies * scotch * sega rally champion * spoon : :....................................................................:

On Thu, 22 Aug 1996, Anders Bylund wrote: > Yup. There is also the matter of card limits; for example, our group > uses a limit of one of each master card... like the investments. This > means that Ascendance is just about as wallpaperish you can get while > both investments are included in every deck (well, almost). This seems horribly restrictive. What are the reasons you do this? [ quoted text not captured ]