Merged titles and anarchs?

Quick question: say you have a vampire with the base version being Camarilla (without title). Say the advanced version has a title (Prince of XXX) as the "merged" ability. Now, what happens if you make the base version an anarch (Independent) and then merge the advanced vampire? I can see two choices: either the merged title forces the vampire back into the Camarilla (thus dropping the Anarch status), or the title is ignored since the vampire is not Camarilla. I suspect the first choice, but am not 100% sure here. I guess that same question would apply to any outside effect that would give a vampire a sect-related title. //Petri

Petri Wessman wrote: > Quick question: say you have a vampire with the base version being > Camarilla (without title). Say the advanced version has a title > (Prince of XXX) as the "merged" ability. Now, what happens if you make > the base version an anarch (Independent) and then merge the advanced > vampire? The two versions have the same sect (Camarilla), so the merged copy doesn't override the base copy. Meaning sect won't change when merged. He does gain a title though, which remains inert until his sect is appropriate. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/26b2c4c1288ba57c

On 7 May 2007 06:18:04 -0700, Petri Wessman <or...@orava.org> wrote: >Quick question: say you have a vampire with the base version being >Camarilla (without title). Say the advanced version has a title >(Prince of XXX) as the "merged" ability. Now, what happens if you make >the base version an anarch (Independent) and then merge the advanced >vampire? > >I can see two choices: either the merged title forces the vampire back >into the Camarilla (thus dropping the Anarch status), or the title is >ignored since the vampire is not Camarilla. I suspect the first >choice, but am not 100% sure here. It's the former, but not for the reason listed. When you merge a vampire, you keep the text of the base, and ALL aspects of the advanced. And then apply any merged ability. 1.5 Subsection 6. When merged, the text on the base card still applies, but the rest of the card is ignored (capacity, Disciplines, etc.). The advancement card applies in full. If the advancement card conflicts with the base card (a different sect, for example), the advancement card has precedence. Some merged cards have an additional effect that only applies if the card is merged with its base card. This would include Sect. And as the Anarch rule states... "If the anarch changes sect, then he is no longer anarch." So in the end, Base Vampire Amarch gains Merge, he stops being Anarch. Advanced Vampire Anarch gains Merge, unless there's some doo-hickey I'm unaware of, he retains his Anarchness. The exceptions being Sascha Vykos and Melinda Galbraith, who have sect specifically listed in their Merge ability. Just gaining a title (Lucita) wouldn't be sufficient, I don't think. >I guess that same question would apply to any outside effect that >would give a vampire a sect-related title. If it doesn't change his sect, and is sect dependant, it goes inert. If it does change his sect, he gains it and loses anarch status. Morgan Vening

On Mon, 07 May 2007 23:44:11 +1000, Morgan Vening <mor...@optusnet.com.au> wrote: >>Quick question: say you have a vampire with the base version being >>Camarilla (without title). Say the advanced version has a title >>(Prince of XXX) as the "merged" ability. Now, what happens if you make >>the base version an anarch (Independent) and then merge the advanced >>vampire? >> >>I can see two choices: either the merged title forces the vampire back >>into the Camarilla (thus dropping the Anarch status), or the title is >>ignored since the vampire is not Camarilla. I suspect the first >>choice, but am not 100% sure here. > >It's the former, but not for the reason listed. When you merge a >vampire, you keep the text of the base, and ALL aspects of the >advanced. And then apply any merged ability. > >1.5 Subsection 6. >When merged, the text on the base card still applies, but the rest of >the card is ignored (capacity, Disciplines, etc.). The advancement >card applies in full. If the advancement card conflicts with the base >card (a different sect, for example), the advancement card has >precedence. Some merged cards have an additional effect that only >applies if the card is merged with its base card. > >This would include Sect. And as the Anarch rule states... Addendum - Seems there is a doo-hickey. I don't understand it (much like a lot of the weird timing rulings), but there you have it. If the printed Sects are the same on Base and Advanced, there is no change of sect on a merge. Regardless of the state of Sect prior to merge. It's weird things like this that discourage me from trying to figure out how VTES rules work. LSJ, does a base Tariq (Independant), who goes Anarch, the Merges, change to Sabbat Black Hand, then return to Independant, retain his Anarch status? Or is the Merge instantly applied? I know it looks like a stupid question, but I honestly no longer know which way is up. [ quoted text not captured ]

On May 7, 9:44 am, Morgan Vening <mor...@optusnet.com.au> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] There was a neat trick that I asked about a long time ago concerning this. Normally, it is hard for amborgino giovanni (base) to go anarch, since he has "1 vote". But if you bring out amborgino giovanni (adv) first, go anarch, and THEN merge, you become an anarch with 1 vote. [Since anarch and giovanni are both Independent]

Morgan Vening wrote: > LSJ, does a base Tariq (Independant), who goes Anarch, the Merges, > change to Sabbat Black Hand, then return to Independant, retain his > Anarch status? Or is the Merge instantly applied? Tariq Base : Indy Tariq Merged : Indy -> Tariq Base in play merged with Tariq Adv from uncontrolled region doesn't change sect.

[ quoted text not captured ] in other words, anarch Tariq-base never gets the Black Hand status from the merge, having never been in Sabbat?

> > Tariq Base : Indy > > Tariq Merged : Indy > > > -> Tariq Base in play merged with Tariq Adv from uncontrolled region doesn't > > change sect. > > in other words, anarch Tariq-base never gets the Black Hand status > from the merge, having never been in Sabbat? Black Hand status is not tied to sect. Merged Tariq is and Independent member of the Black Hand. Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr XZealot Archon of the Swamp

XZealot wrote: >>> Tariq Base : Indy >>> Tariq Merged : Indy >>> -> Tariq Base in play merged with Tariq Adv from uncontrolled region doesn't >>> change sect. >> in other words, anarch Tariq-base never gets the Black Hand status >> from the merge, having never been in Sabbat? > > Black Hand status is not tied to sect. Merged Tariq is and > Independent member of the Black Hand. Correct. Tariq Merged: Independent, Black Hand, Red List, Assamite, 7 capacity, with cel AUS FOR OBF QUI, who can rush, who can steal 1 blood as a ranged strike, on whom blood hunts may not be called, and who is unaffected by the blood curse.