before range card playing order

i believe that before range card play is handled as follows: the acting minion plays a -before range- card, then the other minion 1, then the acting minion a 2nd, e.t.c. or does the acting minion gets to play all his before range cards first and then the other minion has the chance to play all his before range stuff ?

Jyhad_addict expounded: [ quoted text not captured ] The latter. If the acting player passes on pre-range and the other player also passes then no more pre-range can be played. The reacting player does not get to play any pre-range cards until the acting player passes.

Jyhad_addict wrote: > or does the acting minion gets to play all his before range cards first > and then the other minion has the chance to play all his before range > stuff ? Acting Meth always gets first chance to play a card. Whenever a Meth plays a card, the acting Meth gets first chance _again_ to play a card. When both (all) pass, you move on. So, the Acting Meth can play four before range cards at once[1] if he so desires. Or, he could play three, and if the Reacting Meth plays a card, play a fourth. What he can't do is play three, wait to see if the Reacting Meth plays a card, and if the Reacting Meth does not, play a fourth. So, Acting Meth gets the chance to play the first card(s). Reacting Meth gets the chance to play the last card. [1] Pausing for Direct Intervention, etc, of course. --Colin McGuigan

> > or does the acting minion gets to play all his before range cards first > > and then the other minion has the chance to play all his before range > > stuff ? > > > > The latter. If the acting player passes on pre-range and the other > player also passes then no more pre-range can be played. The reacting > player does not get to play any pre-range cards until the acting player > passes. ...which only matters in some fairly limited (combat intensive) situations. Example: Beast is tooled up with ANI, and rushes Omayah, who has an Anathema on her. Beast slaps down a few pre-range cards (Carrion Crows, Increased Strength, Trap), then draws a Terror Frenzy, and plays it at super. If Omayah had been able to play pre-range cards 1-for-1 with Beast, she could have managed to play 3 pre-range cards without the +1 cost from Terror frenzy (for example, pitching 2 Aura Readings, one to check Beast's hand, and one to cycle to some run-away cards). As it is, *everything* Omayah plays costs extra, meaning it costs her 2 to cycle those Aura Readings out of her hand, making it that much easier for Beast to reduce her to zero blood, triggering the Anathema. It's also worth noting that the acting minion may decline to play a before range card *at first*, but then gets another opportunity to play them if the other minions plays one. Example: Beast (close range combat) rushes Jimmy Dunn. Beast has a Drawing out the Beast, but doesn't play it, in case Jimmy is a close-up combat kinda guy. Jimmy plays a Trap and an Infernal Pursuit, then pulls out a gun. Beast realises what he is up against, and decides to play that (thematically appropriate) Drawing out the Beast after all.

I'm having trouble finding the ruling for this. Can you help me find it? I'd like the link. PS: I read the rulebooks I have (up to anarchs, lost my black hand) and it did not say anything about the play order of 'before range' cards in this fashion. Hmm, and I find it odd that V:tES is behind the curve considering most other CCGs out there are going into alternating play/pass stacking module. It avoids all those timing issues and arguments that used to plague Magic back in the day. Hmm... a pity, V:tES should catch up, it's the smoothest timing module I've come across.

Azel wrote: > I'm having trouble finding the ruling for this. Can you help me find it? I'd > like the link. http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/ 1.6.1.6 "Sequencing. If two or more players want to play a card or effect, the acting Methuselah plays first. At every stage, the acting player always has the opportunity to play the next card or effect. So after playing one effect, she may play another and another. Once she is finished, the opportunity passes to the defending Methuselah (in the cases of directed actions and combat), then to the rest of the Methuselahs in clockwise order from the acting Methuselah. Note that if any Methuselah uses a card or effect, the acting Methuselah again gets the opportunity to play the next effect." > PS: I read the rulebooks I have (up to anarchs, lost my black hand) and it > did not say anything about the play order of 'before range' cards in this > fashion. Hmm, and I find it odd that V:tES is behind the curve considering > most other CCGs out there are going into alternating play/pass stacking > module. It avoids all those timing issues and arguments that used to plague > Magic back in the day. Hmm... a pity, V:tES should catch up, it's the > smoothest timing module I've come across. Magic's timing problems were that any card could be interrupted by another card, which could be interrupted in turn, so you'd end up with a stack of effects that had to be applied in reverse (last-played first) order. V:tES doesn't have interrupts, except for Direct Intervention, Sudden Reversal, and Diamond Thunderbolt, so it's not such a huge deal. But as for "acting plays first" or "play alternates", matter of taste. I don't think there's any real advantages, game-wise, to either. --Colin McGuigan

"Azel" <opao...@comcast.net> wrote: > I'm having trouble finding the ruling for this. Can you help me find it? I'd > like the link. http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec1_6_1 (item number 6). > PS: I read the rulebooks I have (up to anarchs, lost my black hand) and it > did not say anything about the play order of 'before range' cards in this > fashion. Hmm, and I find it odd that V:tES is behind the curve considering Yes, it does. [1.6.1.6] > most other CCGs out there are going into alternating play/pass stacking > module. It avoids all those timing issues and arguments that used to plague > Magic back in the day. Hmm... a pity, V:tES should catch up, it's the > smoothest timing module I've come across. Spurious. Both timing system avoid "all those timing issues". Back-and-forth and Round-with-reset accomplish the same "smoothness" in that regard. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

spurious, hmm... maybe with whom you play. playing multiple CCGs and seeing the difference leaves me with a different experience. never liked the 'acting player endless chain' because it invited sneaky flinch playing, teasing out sight of one of your cards. permission round-with-reset play worked smoother and had less shady mind tricks. never had to play guessing games against the acting player to figure out when he's done. maybe when you play you all have table rules to let people know when you are finished, but most games i come across such vocalization isn't a given. fun to be a methuselah to do mean actions and possibly break deals, but when that gets into the mechanics... a pity. ps: thanks for finding the link, though.

Azel expounded: > spurious, hmm... maybe with whom you play. playing multiple CCGs and seeing > the difference leaves me with a different experience. > > never liked the 'acting player endless chain' because it invited sneaky > flinch playing, teasing out sight of one of your cards. permission > round-with-reset play worked smoother and had less shady mind tricks. never > had to play guessing games against the acting player to figure out when he's > done. maybe when you play you all have table rules to let people know when > you are finished, but most games i come across such vocalization isn't a Then demand it. Ask if they have finished before you play your stuff. [ quoted text not captured ]

well obviously when you come across that type of player then you vocalize it. that's a given. but, you forget, by then the damage is already done, he already saw a card. and from then on you have to make continual annoying "are we there yet?" requests. it gets very irritating having to do so all game - for all players. it's tedious, annoying, and unnecessary when there's already another solution out there that works. but if that's how it is, then that's how it is. i've dealt with it in early Magic tourneys, and i can deal with it again in VtES tourneys. hell, i've sat through Thoughts Betrayed and other problems in this card game, i can sit through this. but that doesn't mean i have to like it and can't have an opinion based on anecdotal experience.