A few questions...

I have a few questions... 1. About timing in Jyhad: When can one play Telepathic Misdirection? As soon as the player declares the bleed action? Or after he decides not to block and draws out the conditioning and such? 2. Form of Mist allows the action to continue at +1 stealth absolute, or at +1 stealth to whatever the action was in the 1st place? 3. Can you use Telepathic Vote Counting to return the vote card to your hand and/or cancel combat if the vote is intercepted? 4. Does the bearer of the Talbot's Chainsaw HAVE to attack another minion if ready and untapped? The text implies that he does. 5. Does that mean that above chainsaw wielder will not hunt even if at zero blood? Can he attack another minion that his Methuselah controls? 6. Can minions opt not to strike at all in combat? It is implied that they can in the rulebook: ...once decided not to strike a blow, may not change mind... 7. CAN Eagle Sight block Day Operation? Thanks in advance. Damian Chang.

740926...@omega.ntu.ac.sg writes: >I have a few questions... >1. About timing in Jyhad: When can one play Telepathic Misdirection? As soon as >the player declares the bleed action? Or after he decides not to block and >draws out the conditioning and such? At either time (before you pitch in the pool, of course). >2. Form of Mist allows the action to continue at +1 stealth absolute, or at +1 >stealth to whatever the action was in the 1st place? An additional +1. That's why it says +1 stealth instead of 1 stealth. (Additive and all that :-) >3. Can you use Telepathic Vote Counting to return the vote card to your hand >and/or cancel combat if the vote is intercepted? No. >4. Does the bearer of the Talbot's Chainsaw HAVE to attack another minion if >ready and untapped? The text implies that he does. Yes. When in doubt, go with the card text. >5. Does that mean that above chainsaw wielder will not hunt even if at zero >blood? Can he attack another minion that his Methuselah controls? Yes. The weilder cannot hunt. If he has zero blood, he can do nothing - the only action he can take (hunting) is forbidden by TC. >6. Can minions opt not to strike at all in combat? It is implied that they can >in the rulebook: ...once decided not to strike a blow, may not change mind... This implication has been stomped out by the Design Team. A Minion must choose a strike. In the absence of a card, this strike will be "hands". >7. CAN Eagle Sight block Day Operation? No. (most recent ruling from Tom, overturning earlier rulings): --- From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad Subject: Re: Is this legal ? Date: 14 Mar 1995 06:21:35 GMT Message-ID: <3k3clf$q...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> Joseph Cochran <js...@discus.ise.vt.edu> wrote: >> There's no way to block a Day Operation. Isn't that beautifull? > Except with Eagle's Sight. DTR from 10/6/94, question #27. No >further DTR about this have been issued. Actually, we're pretty sure this was reversed, and it simply never made it into a DTR. Specifically, Eagle's Sight is only allowing the vampire to ignore the usual restrictions as to which players may attempt to block an action, and does not override all restrictions such as Day Operation, Seduction, etc. Hopefully the reversal will be confirmed in the next DTR. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc. ---

740926...@omega.ntu.ac.sg wrote: > I have a few questions... > 2. Form of Mist allows the action to continue at +1 stealth absolute, or at +1 stealth to whatever the action was in the 1st place? It's not a +1 stealth absolute. So if the action was at +2 stealth before combat, it's now at +3 stealth. > 4. Does the bearer of the Talbot's Chainsaw HAVE to attack another minion if ready and untapped? The text implies that he does. Actually, I always played that I don't have the obligation to attack. But, it's a good question and I'll ask Tom about it. > 5. Does that mean that above chainsaw wielder will not hunt even if at zero blood? Can he attack another minion that his Methuselah controls? You don't hunt at zero blood and you can attack another minion at zero blood when your minion has the Talbot's Chainsaw. > 6. Can minions opt not to strike at all in combat? It is implied that they can in the rulebook: ...once decided not to strike a blow, may not change mind... You must choose a strike in combat. You CAN"T NOT to choose a strike, never. > 7. CAN Eagle Sight block Day Operation? No. The sup. skill of Eagle Sight only implies that you can attempt to block an action that normaly you can't BECAUSE it's a (D) action or you can't block it since you're not the prey or the predator of the minion who's doing the action. So you can't use Eagle Signt to block Day Operation, and you can't use Eagle Signt to block a Seduction either. [ quoted text not captured ]

Peace Damian, > I have a few questions... I'll do my best. > 1. About timing in Jyhad: When can one play Telepathic Misdirection? As soon as > the player declares the bleed action? Or after he decides not to block and > draws out the conditioning and such? Either time, though it is generally wiser to wait until after your predator plays/doesn't play a bleed modifier. > 2. Form of Mist allows the action to continue at +1 stealth absolute, or at +1 > stealth to whatever the action was in the 1st place? +1 more stealth, e.g.: an equip action would be at +2 stealth after FoM. > 3. Can you use Telepathic Vote Counting to return the vote card to your hand > and/or cancel combat if the vote is intercepted? Yes to returning it to your hand if not intercepted. No to both if the political action is intercepted. > 4. Does the bearer of the Talbot's Chainsaw HAVE to attack another minion if > ready and untapped? The text implies that he does. The bearer of TC doesn't "attack" another of the controller's minions. The TC itself does three damage (it is a cursed magic item) to one of the controller's minons if its bearer is ready. Taking the damage is NOT optional. > 5. Does that mean that above chainsaw wielder will not hunt even if at zero > blood? Can he attack another minion that his Methuselah controls? Yes, the bearer of TC cannot hunt, even if empty; in which case that minion can do NOTHING. Yes, the curse still takes affect even if the bearer is empty. > 6. Can minions opt not to strike at all in combat? It is implied that they can > in the rulebook: ...once decided not to strike a blow, may not change mind... No. A minion must strike every round that they are in a combat. The strike does not necessarily have to be effective (hand strike at range), but they must strike. > 7. CAN Eagle Sight block Day Operation? No. Day Op is unblockable. [Thank you, Tom!] Nil carborundum illigitimi, James R. McClure Jr. The OS/2 Apostle <insert disclaimer here>

We have differences of opinion on a few of these questions that I think are important to clarify. The questioner was Damian Chang and I have included responses from James McClure and Martin Filion. Damian>> 4. Does the bearer of the Talbot's Chainsaw HAVE to attack Damian>> another minion if ready and untapped? The text implies that he Damian>> does. James> The bearer of TC doesn't "attack" another of the controller's James> minions. The TC itself does three damage (it is a cursed magic James> item) to one of the controller's minons if its bearer is ready. James> Taking the damage is NOT optional. Martin> Actually, I always played that I don't have the obligation to Martin> attack. But, it's a good question and I'll ask Tom about it. It appears that after a full week of answering questions about the curse James is unable to look at any other sentence on the card :). The actual problem is the declarative "the bearer attacks" in the middle of the text. I have also always played that this attack is optional, especially since making it mandatory would open up questions regarding the point in the minion phase when you are required to do it (immediately after all of your mandatory hunts? BEFORE?? Anytime before the end of the minion phase?). I would also object to this being ruled mandatory since it prevents usage of ANY other action, including Hidden Lurker. Damian>> 5. Does that mean that above chainsaw wielder will not hunt Damian>> even if at zero blood? Can he attack another minion that his Damian>> Methuselah controls? James> Yes, the bearer of TC cannot hunt, even if empty; in which case James> that minion can do NOTHING. Yes, the curse still takes affect James> even if the bearer is empty. Martin> You don't hunt at zero blood and you can attack another minion Martin> at zero blood when your minion has the Talbot's Chainsaw. I regard the card's disallowing hunting as also cancelling any requirement to hunt (I appeal to the Golden Rule for Cards, if nothing else). Both previous responders missed the actual point of question 5.5, which is, yet again, whether you are allowed to get into combat with yourself. Although I regard this possibility as interesting, I find it clearly against the design philosophy of the game in general and can find no case (except for the horrific wording of Rampage) where it is sensibly allowed. In this case, once again, it is made obvious since the definition of a (D) action is one directed against _another_ Methuselah. Damian>> 6. Can minions opt not to strike at all in combat? It is Damian>> implied that they can in the rulebook: ...once decided not to Damian>> strike a blow, may not change mind... James> No. A minion must strike every round that they are in a combat. James> The strike does not necessarily have to be effective (hand strike James> at range), but they must strike. Martin> You must choose a strike in combat. You CAN"T NOT to choose a Martin> strike, never. To clarify, the proper reading of that line of the rules is that once you have decided not to *use a weapon or play a card specifying a special strike* you may not change your mind. I.e., you have chosen hand damage and are committed to it. Happy Hacking! -- -- Jon Ferro Einsprachigkeit ist heilbar.

In article <1995031521...@chopin.chem.cmu.edu>, Jon Ferro <fe...@chem.cmu.edu> wrote: >Damian>> 5. Does that mean that above chainsaw wielder will not hunt >Damian>> even if at zero blood? Can he attack another minion that his >Damian>> Methuselah controls? > >I regard the card's disallowing hunting as also cancelling any >requirement to hunt (I appeal to the Golden Rule for Cards, if nothing >else). Tom at least (and possibly the DT) has said that if the vampire with TC has no blood, it is stuck. The only action the rules allow it is specifically forbidden, so it can do nothing. >Both previous responders missed the actual point of question 5.5, which >is, yet again, whether you are allowed to get into combat with yourself. Actually, there are two issues at play here. There's the TC Master phase damage, and then the TC attack ability. The master phase damage is mandatory, but the question to the floor is whether the TC attack ability is mandatory. To that, my guess is no. >Although I regard this possibility as interesting, I find it clearly >against the design philosophy of the game in general and can find no >case (except for the horrific wording of Rampage) where it is sensibly >allowed. In this case, once again, it is made obvious since the >definition of a (D) action is one directed against _another_ Methuselah. Yes! That's my opinion as well! Now as to the issue of the (D) on bleed cards........ well, that's another (really long) discussion. :-) | If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--* | PC game, call the announce line at | js...@vt.edu | ** csi...@discus.ise.vt.edu ** | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------- "Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK

Jon Ferro <fe...@chem.cmu.edu> writes James> The bearer of TC doesn't "attack" another of the controller's James> minions. The TC itself does three damage (it is a cursed magic James> item) to one of the controller's minons if its bearer is ready. James> Taking the damage is NOT optional. >It appears that after a full week of answering questions about the curse >James is unable to look at any other sentence on the card :). The >actual problem is the declarative "the bearer attacks" in the middle of >the text. I have also always played that this attack is optional, >especially since making it mandatory would open up questions regarding >the point in the minion phase when you are required to do it >(immediately after all of your mandatory hunts? BEFORE?? Anytime >before the end of the minion phase?). I would also object to this being >ruled mandatory since it prevents usage of ANY other action, including >Hidden Lurker. Where a granted ability is optional, the card indicates that. It TC doesn't, and there's nothing in the text to indicate it's not mandatory. "When ready and untapped, the bearer attacks a minion of any Methuselah as a Directed Action." Archon, by contrast: "this vampire acquires the ability to attack other vampires as a Directed Action with +1 Stealth" The wording indicates it's contemporaneous with hunts; since you can hunt in any order I'd say that you just throw in the assault with the hunts in any order. Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)

In article <3k6sqj$1...@redwood.cs.scarolina.edu> sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) writes: >740926...@omega.ntu.ac.sg writes: > >>6. Can minions opt not to strike at all in combat? It is implied that they can >>in the rulebook: ...once decided not to strike a blow, may not change mind... > >This implication has been stomped out by the Design Team. A Minion must >choose a strike. In the absence of a card, this strike will be "hands". Scott is correct. Note that this is not just a `ruling'; this is a rules /change/ by the DTR. 15.1, Establish Range by Maneuver: ... All attacks that are not specifically ranged can only be performed at close range, ... clearly stating that it is nothing but illegal to perform a hand strike at long range. It is silly ... a vampire (not necessarily Malk.) punching at empty air? :-) -- "Live Life with Heart." Alan Kwan kw...@cs.cornell.edu

Jon Ferro <fe...@chem.cmu.edu> wrote: > > We have differences of opinion on a few of these questions that I think > are important to clarify. The questioner was Damian Chang and I have > included responses from James McClure and Martin Filion. > > Damian>> 4. Does the bearer of the Talbot's Chainsaw HAVE to attack > Damian>> another minion if ready and untapped? The text implies that he > Damian>> does. > > James> The bearer of TC doesn't "attack" another of the controller's > James> minions. The TC itself does three damage (it is a cursed magic > James> item) to one of the controller's minons if its bearer is ready. > James> Taking the damage is NOT optional. > > It appears that after a full week of answering questions about the curse > James is unable to look at any other sentence on the card :). The > actual problem is the declarative "the bearer attacks" in the middle of > the text. I have also always played that this attack is optional, > especially since making it mandatory would open up questions regarding > the point in the minion phase when you are required to do it > (immediately after all of your mandatory hunts? BEFORE?? Anytime > before the end of the minion phase?). I would also object to this being > ruled mandatory since it prevents usage of ANY other action, including > Hidden Lurker. Peace Jon, Yep, I thought that Damian was asking about the three points of mandatory damage. Yes, the attacking another minion is optional. No, you may not attack yourself. > Damian>> 5. Does that mean that above chainsaw wielder will not hunt > Damian>> even if at zero blood? Can he attack another minion that his > Damian>> Methuselah controls? > > James> Yes, the bearer of TC cannot hunt, even if empty; in which case > James> that minion can do NOTHING. Yes, the curse still takes affect > James> even if the bearer is empty. > > Martin> You don't hunt at zero blood and you can attack another minion > Martin> at zero blood when your minion has the Talbot's Chainsaw. > > I regard the card's disallowing hunting as also cancelling any > requirement to hunt (I appeal to the Golden Rule for Cards, if nothing > else). Sorry, Jon, but I'm going to have to disagree, an empty TC wielder can do _nothing_, the only action an empty vamp can perform is hunt and the TC wielder may not hunt. There is at least one other way that an empty vamp can spend a turn doing nothing. > Both previous responders missed the actual point of question 5.5, which > is, yet again, whether you are allowed to get into combat with yourself. > Although I regard this possibility as interesting, I find it clearly > against the design philosophy of the game in general and can find no > case (except for the horrific wording of Rampage) where it is sensibly > allowed. In this case, once again, it is made obvious since the > definition of a (D) action is one directed against _another_ Methuselah. Yes, Jon, you may not engage your own minions in combat. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <3k88f7$s...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, CurtAdams <curt...@aol.com> wrote: >Where a granted ability is optional, the card indicates that. It TC >doesn't, and there's nothing in the text to indicate it's not mandatory. >"When ready and untapped, the bearer attacks a minion of any Methuselah as >a Directed Action." Abilities granted by retainers has been ruled to be not optional (DTR). There is no such limitation on abilities granted by equipment. [ quoted text not captured ]

>Abilities granted by retainers has been ruled to be not optional >(DTR). There is no such limitation on abilities granted by equipment. Is it official that they are optional? Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)

:>> It appears that after a full week of answering questions about the curse :>> James is unable to look at any other sentence on the card :). The :>> actual problem is the declarative "the bearer attacks" in the middle of :>> the text. I have also always played that this attack is optional, :>> especially since making it mandatory would open up questions regarding :>> the point in the minion phase when you are required to do it :>> (immediately after all of your mandatory hunts? BEFORE?? Anytime :>> before the end of the minion phase?). I would also object to this being :>> ruled mandatory since it prevents usage of ANY other action, including :>> Hidden Lurker. Then why the strange wording? "If ready and untapped" is completely unnecessary, and could be replaced with "Bearer may attack a minion of any Methuselah as a +1 stealth D action", as in the case of Archon, Roxanne, Ebanezer and Wynn (Although those say "of predator or prey"). I don't see anything really unfair about having to attack mandatorily. After all, the TC is a really powerful weapon. The attacking/not hunting can be explained as the curse filling the bearer with an unquenchable lust for killing and maiming. :> Yep, I thought that Damian was asking about the three points of mandatory :> damage. Yes, the attacking another minion is optional. No, you may not :> attack yourself. :> :>> Damian>> 5. Does that mean that above chainsaw wielder will not hunt :>> Damian>> even if at zero blood? Can he attack another minion that his :>> Damian>> Methuselah controls? :>> :>> James> Yes, the bearer of TC cannot hunt, even if empty; in which case :>> James> that minion can do NOTHING. Yes, the curse still takes affect :>> James> even if the bearer is empty. :>> :>> Martin> You don't hunt at zero blood and you can attack another minion :>> Martin> at zero blood when your minion has the Talbot's Chainsaw. :>> :>> I regard the card's disallowing hunting as also cancelling any :>> requirement to hunt (I appeal to the Golden Rule for Cards, if nothing :>> else). :> :> Sorry, Jon, but I'm going to have to disagree, an empty TC wielder can do :> _nothing_, the only action an empty vamp can perform is hunt and the TC :> wielder may not hunt. There is at least one other way that an empty vamp :> can spend a turn doing nothing. Using the mandatory attack ruling would resolve the hunting issue quite simply... :>> Both previous responders missed the actual point of question 5.5, which :>> is, yet again, whether you are allowed to get into combat with yourself. :>> Although I regard this possibility as interesting, I find it clearly :>> against the design philosophy of the game in general and can find no :>> case (except for the horrific wording of Rampage) where it is sensibly :>> allowed. In this case, once again, it is made obvious since the :>> definition of a (D) action is one directed against _another_ Methuselah. :> :> Yes, Jon, you may not engage your own minions in combat. Again using the reasoning that the bearer is filled with and unquenchable lust etc etc..., it wouod be easy to see why the bearer would not distinguish between friend/foe. After all, the word "any" is used rather than "another", which is unlike many other cards. Of course this is a good reason in itself, but I am just saying that it is not beyond logic that the bearer would act in such a manner. After all this discussion, I think an official ruling from WotC would probably help, so... Tom? (If there have been any other netreps responding already, I am somewhat of a newbie and still unaware of their status. Hope i don't offend anyone :) Look! A smiley that actually closed a bracket! Damian Chang, The Little Teapot.