Thoughts Betrayed Question

Thoughts Betrayed [DS, SW, FN] Cardtype: Combat Cost: 2 blood Discipline: Dominate [dom] Only usable before range is determined on the first round. Opposing minion takes an additional 1 damage in the first round of combat during strike resolution. [DOM] Only usable before range is determined on the first round. Opposing minion cannot play any strike cards for the duration of this combat. Do opposing minion takes 1 additional damage during strike resolution on inferior even if the combat is at long range? /Bern

"Bern" <Morni...@mailcity.com> wrote in message news:wE4Z7.7821$l93.2...@newsb.telia.net... [ quoted text not captured ] If your strike is long range , i would say yes .

Bern wrote: > Thoughts Betrayed [DS, SW, FN] > Do opposing minion takes 1 additional damage during strike resolution on > inferior even if the combat is at long range? No. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3C34E1FF...@white-wolf.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Looks like i played the card wrong ... Never late to learn !

>> Thoughts Betrayed [DS, SW, FN] >> Do opposing minion takes 1 additional damage during strike resolution on >> inferior even if the combat is at long range? > >No. I know that it follows the Wolf Companion text, but is there any particular reason why Thoughts Betrayed doesn't inflict damage at long? Similarly, would Drawing out the Beast inflict damage at long range? Halcyan 2

[ quoted text not captured ] As a strike resolution effect, it is affected by range (it functions similarly to Retainer damage in that regard). DotB's damage is not a "during strike resolution" effect. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> schrieb: hi, >Bern wrote: >> Thoughts Betrayed [DS, SW, FN] >> Do opposing minion takes 1 additional damage during strike resolution on >> inferior even if the combat is at long range? > >No. even if i throw a gate at him? elaborate: i think i understand that if i go to long and do hand damage my opponent takes no damage, so he can't take 1 additional damage. but if i go to long rage and throw something at him or shoot him, then he takes damage, and also suffers the thoughts betrayed additional damage. if this is wrong, then could you please provide an explanation, why this is so? in my opinion it would contradict card text! regards chris

Chris wrote: > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> schrieb: > >Bern wrote: > >> Thoughts Betrayed [DS, SW, FN] > >> Do opposing minion takes 1 additional damage during strike resolution on > >> inferior even if the combat is at long range? > > > >No. > > even if i throw a gate at him? ? Right. Just as your Wolf Companion wouldn't care if you did so. > but if i go to long rage and throw something at him or shoot him, then > he takes damage, and also suffers the thoughts betrayed additional > damage. No. TB is not related to your strike. (cardtext) > if this is wrong, then could you please provide an explanation, why > this is so? in my opinion it would contradict card text! Card text doesn't tie the effect to your strike. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> schrieb: > >No. TB is not related to your strike. (cardtext) > >> if this is wrong, then could you please provide an explanation, why >> this is so? in my opinion it would contradict card text! > >Card text doesn't tie the effect to your strike. yes, and it doesn't tie its effect to range, as opposed to wolf companion (explicit card text) disclaimer: i'm not trying to argue with you, i just want to understand this! regards chris

[ quoted text not captured ] The damage is done during strike resolution and is not 'R' damage. [ quoted text not captured ]

Chris <ro...@gmx.at> wrote in message news:<idbl3us33b3pgloja...@4ax.com>... > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> schrieb: > >Card text doesn't tie the effect to your strike. > > yes, and it doesn't tie its effect to range, as opposed to wolf > companion (explicit card text) > > disclaimer: > i'm not trying to argue with you, i just want to understand this! > LSJ's answer is extremely unenlightening, so I'll see if I can explain it. Note, that I'm not sure I completely understand why there is a difference between damage during strike resolution and otherwise (i.e. why there is a difference between TB and DoTB), but... When you are looking at TB as being tied to your strike effect, I believe that you are looking at it as though TB *adds* to your damage. It does not. When it says "takes an additional point of damage", it is not saying that it takes an additional point of damage from your strike. Look at it instead as if it said "takes a point of damage." The word "additional" simply means that the point of damage applies on top of any damage that the other minion is already taking (which is redundant, as all effects are considered to stack unless they say they don't stack), and *does* not rely on whether or not the minion is already taking damage. If the opposing minion takes no damage, but you are at close range (e.g. if you dodge), then the TB damage will still kick in.

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> schrieb: >Chris wrote: >> LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> schrieb: >> >No. TB is not related to your strike. (cardtext) >> > >> >> if this is wrong, then could you please provide an explanation, why >> >> this is so? in my opinion it would contradict card text! >> > >> >Card text doesn't tie the effect to your strike. >> >> yes, and it doesn't tie its effect to range, as opposed to wolf >> companion (explicit card text) >> >> disclaimer: >> i'm not trying to argue with you, i just want to understand this! > >The damage is done during strike resolution and is not 'R' damage. ok, got it thanks for your patience! regards chris

On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, LSJ wrote: > Halcyan 2 wrote: > > > > >> Thoughts Betrayed [DS, SW, FN] > > >> Do opposing minion takes 1 additional damage during strike resolution on > > >> inferior even if the combat is at long range? > > > > > >No. > > > > I know that it follows the Wolf Companion text, but is there any particular > > reason why Thoughts Betrayed doesn't inflict damage at long? Similarly, would > > Drawing out the Beast inflict damage at long range? > > As a strike resolution effect, it is affected by range (it functions similarly > to Retainer damage in that regard). > > DotB's damage is not a "during strike resolution" effect. > and yet s:ce+damage cards _are_ affectd by range, even though their damage occurs after combat (where there is even less chance of "range" being an issue than during the press step.) curious, no? salem.

>> As a strike resolution effect, it is affected by range (it functions >similarly >> to Retainer damage in that regard). >> >> DotB's damage is not a "during strike resolution" effect. >> > >and yet s:ce+damage cards _are_ affectd by range, even though their >damage occurs after combat (where there is even less chance of "range" >being an issue than during the press step.) > >curious, no? Could be missing a newer card, but if you're thinking of Catatonic Fear and/or Riposte, then the range issue for damage is dealt with due to card text (card text requires range to be close for damage to be dealt in both cases). I am curious however what would happen in a hypothetical card which doesn't specify range... Halcyan 2

[ quoted text not captured ] You mean like Oubliette, which does damage even at long range? [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3C3ECD1E...@white-wolf.com>... > Halcyan 2 wrote: > > > > Could be missing a newer card, but if you're thinking of Catatonic Fear and/or > > Riposte, then the range issue for damage is dealt with due to card text (card > > text requires range to be close for damage to be dealt in both cases). I am > > curious however what would happen in a hypothetical card which doesn't specify > > range... > > You mean like Oubliette, which does damage even at long range? > Doesn't do damage.

[ quoted text not captured ] Ah. Right. Still, the not-stated-as-ranged effect applies (since it isn't done during strike resolutin). Thanks for the catch, Scott [ quoted text not captured ]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, LSJ wrote: > Halcyan 2 wrote: > > > > >> As a strike resolution effect, it is affected by range (it functions > > >similarly > > >> to Retainer damage in that regard). > > >> > > >> DotB's damage is not a "during strike resolution" effect. > > >> > > > > > >and yet s:ce+damage cards _are_ affectd by range, even though their > > >damage occurs after combat (where there is even less chance of "range" > > >being an issue than during the press step.) > > > > > >curious, no? > > > > Could be missing a newer card, but if you're thinking of Catatonic Fear and/or > > Riposte, then the range issue for damage is dealt with due to card text (card > > text requires range to be close for damage to be dealt in both cases). I am > > curious however what would happen in a hypothetical card which doesn't specify > > range... > > You mean like Oubliette, which does damage even at long range? i thought burning blood and dealing damage were different. O:) salem.