Our First Black Seraph Has Arrived!

Next preview is up: Jalan-Aajav !Gangrel 9-cap ani CEL FOR POT PRO Sabbat. Black Hand Seraph. Once each round, Jalan may burn 1 blood to treat aggravated damage as normal. He gets 1 optional press each combat. Wow! Pretty good. Compared to Karsh, 1 less capacity, has only inferior Animalism. Trades the enter combat ability for a press and also gains Black Hand Seraph. More CEL FOR POT! On a different note, it seems LSJ has corrected the listings (some, like one of the !Brujah, wasn't initially appearing and two of the !Nosferatu starter-only vampires were appearing on the checklist). Parity seems fine now. Halcyan 2

[ quoted text not captured ] And this guy made it through playtesting, how? His aggravated change ability functions the entire round and is not restricted to combat (or other limitation). So this guy can play Dawn Operation, Force of Will, and Daring the Dawn with no real drawback. Am I the only one that finds this more than a little disturbing? BernieTime Lansing, Michigan

On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 berni...@comcast.netHOLDLeSPAM wrote: > On 07 Nov 2003 14:15:23 GMT, halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote: > > >Next preview is up: > > > >Jalan-Aajav > >!Gangrel > >9-cap > >ani CEL FOR POT PRO > >Sabbat. Black Hand Seraph. Once each round, Jalan may burn 1 blood to treat > >aggravated damage as normal. He gets 1 optional press each combat. <snip> > His aggravated change ability functions the entire round and is not > restricted to combat (or other limitation). So this guy can play Dawn > Operation, Force of Will, and Daring the Dawn with no real drawback. Is the term "round" meaningful at all outside of combat? I didn't think it was. A player's turn is known as a "turn." > Am I the only one that finds this more than a little disturbing? 9 cap with no bleed discipline outside of FOR? I don't see a huge problem either way. Matt Morgan

<berni...@comcast.netHOLDLeSPAM> wrote in message news:3fabce29....@netnews.comcast.net... [ quoted text not captured ] The special stipulates once each *round* meaning combat. Yeah would have been totally gross if it was once a turn. -- Oscar Garza Prince of College Station, Tx The Crazy Aggie

On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 berni...@comcast.netHOLDLeSPAM wrote: > His aggravated change ability functions the entire round and is not > restricted to combat (or other limitation). So this guy can play Dawn > Operation, Force of Will, and Daring the Dawn with no real drawback. How can he use that special outside of a "round"? Doesn't his imply combat. What "round" are you in when you take FoW damage? > Am I the only one that finds this more than a little disturbing? I don't think he works like that. David Cherryholmes Duke Radiology P.E.T. Facility (919) 684-7714 david.che...@duke.edu

halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote in message news:<20031107091523...@mb-m16.aol.com>... > Next preview is up: > > Jalan-Aajav > !Gangrel > 9-cap > ani CEL FOR POT PRO > Sabbat. Black Hand Seraph. Once each round, Jalan may burn 1 blood to treat > aggravated damage as normal. He gets 1 optional press each combat. > > > Wow! Pretty good. Compared to Karsh, 1 less capacity, has only inferior > Animalism. Trades the enter combat ability for a press and also gains Black > Hand Seraph. More CEL FOR POT! Actually, this is the second Seraph, since Teresita has been previewed for quite a while now. -John Flournoy

halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote in message news:<20031107091523...@mb-m16.aol.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] Actually he-s our fourth confirmed Seraph. Teresita, Banjoko and Yazid Tamari are all Seraphs and are all in the set.

>Actually he-s our fourth confirmed Seraph. Teresita, Banjoko and >Yazid Tamari are all Seraphs and are all in the set. Banjoko and Yazid are in the set but we haven't actually confirmed that they are Seraphs yet. Halcyan 2

halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote in message news:<20031107091523...@mb-m16.aol.com>... > Next preview is up: > > Jalan-Aajav > !Gangrel > 9-cap > ani CEL FOR POT PRO > Sabbat. Black Hand Seraph. Once each round, Jalan may burn 1 blood to treat > aggravated damage as normal. He gets 1 optional press each combat. > > > Wow! Pretty good. Compared to Karsh, 1 less capacity, has only inferior > Animalism. Trades the enter combat ability for a press and also gains Black > Hand Seraph. More CEL FOR POT! +PRO! Maxwell/Karsh/Jalan How long before this becomes the uber multi-rush paradigm? Is there anything they can't do? Let's see: Tear a signpost, plenty of maneuvers to stay close, grab, punch you three times for 3, the third of which is agg, Flesh of Marble so I don't care what you do to me, and two of us can treat agg as normal so we REALLY don't care. Taste, Freak drive, do it again. (And pack some Chiram's Holds to make your opponents' Skins of Steel cost more.) Maxwell and Karsh just need to go Into the Fire and then they can get Bloodied and Shakar'ed too. Oh, oh the pain. Eric Simon Prince of Chicago "Mommy, the Black Hand gets all the GOOD stuff..." "I know, honey. Now eat your vegetables."

In message <3fabce29....@netnews.comcast.net>, berni...@comcast.netHOLDLeSPAM mumbled something about: >On 07 Nov 2003 14:15:23 GMT, halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote: > >>Next preview is up: >> >>Jalan-Aajav >>!Gangrel >>9-cap >>ani CEL FOR POT PRO >>Sabbat. Black Hand Seraph. Once each round, Jalan may burn 1 blood to treat >>aggravated damage as normal. He gets 1 optional press each combat. > >And this guy made it through playtesting, how? Bernie, PLEASE wake up and read the text before having hysterics? This is like the third or fourth time you've flipped out over something that's not there. >His aggravated change ability functions the entire round and is not >restricted to combat (or other limitation). So this guy can play Dawn >Operation, Force of Will, and Daring the Dawn with no real drawback. You can only use his special if a "round" is occurring, meaning he cannot use his special outside of combat. In addition, even if you COULD use his special outside of combat, he has no bleed disciplines. An unblockable Force of Will bleed for 3 that costs 2 blood is vaguely nasty, yes, but he's a 9-cap; they need to be able to do nasty things. Is it any worse than Arika playing Lost in Crowds and Faceless Night, both of which are free? >Am I the only one that finds this more than a little disturbing? Yes. -- Derek "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." - C. Darwin, 1871

On 7 Nov 2003 12:48:31 -0800, vol...@yahoo.com (Eric Simon) scrawled: >Freak drive, do it again. (And pack some Chiram's Holds to make your >opponents' Skins of Steel cost more.) Chiram's Hold is only playable on the methuselah who's minion is acting. ie: a reaction-style combat card. More's the pity. >Maxwell and Karsh just need to go Into the Fire and then they can get >Bloodied and Shakar'ed too. Oh, oh the pain. sweet. so sweet. Notice how Jalan pretty much _is_ Karsh? how cool is that? salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 17:06:30 -0500, Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote: >In message <3fabce29....@netnews.comcast.net>, >berni...@comcast.netHOLDLeSPAM mumbled something about: > >>On 07 Nov 2003 14:15:23 GMT, halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote: >> >>>Next preview is up: >>> >>>Jalan-Aajav >>>!Gangrel >>>9-cap >>>ani CEL FOR POT PRO >>>Sabbat. Black Hand Seraph. Once each round, Jalan may burn 1 blood to treat >>>aggravated damage as normal. He gets 1 optional press each combat. >> >>And this guy made it through playtesting, how? > >Bernie, PLEASE wake up and read the text before having hysterics? >This is like the third or fourth time you've flipped out over something >that's not there. I don't get hysterical Derek. I may get a little pissed off on occasion, but not so much really. I do try to be constructive in my occasional ranting and criticisms. >>His aggravated change ability functions the entire round and is not >>restricted to combat (or other limitation). So this guy can play Dawn >>Operation, Force of Will, and Daring the Dawn with no real drawback. > >You can only use his special if a "round" is occurring, meaning he >cannot use his special outside of combat. Okay, so "round" is to infer a round of combat. Not quite as crazy then as I surmised., >In addition, even if you COULD use his special outside of combat, he has >no bleed disciplines. An unblockable Force of Will bleed for 3 that >costs 2 blood is vaguely nasty, yes, but he's a 9-cap; they need to be >able to do nasty things. >Is it any worse than Arika playing Lost in Crowds and Faceless Night, >both of which are free? > >>Am I the only one that finds this more than a little disturbing? > >Yes. > >-- Derek I'm more suprised you bother to read my posts. I usually don't read yours at all. BernieTime Lansing, Michigan

>Actually, this is the second Seraph, since Teresita has been previewed >for quite a while now. > Oops! My bad! Those silly Trujah are messing up the time continuum again! Grrr... Halcyan 2

> > >Maxwell and Karsh just need to go Into the Fire and then they can get > >Bloodied and Shakar'ed too. Oh, oh the pain. > > sweet. so sweet. > you might even like to slip lazverinus in. the lack of celerity can be conpencated by the fact you dont need inn to the flame. plus the free 3 hand dam saves cards. but we will see how many freakdrives i can scrape together. yours wacky oortje

In message <3fac9104....@netnews.comcast.net>, berni...@comcast.netHOLDLeSPAM mumbled something about: >On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 17:06:30 -0500, Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>Bernie, PLEASE wake up and read the text before having hysterics? >>This is like the third or fourth time you've flipped out over something >>that's not there. > >I don't get hysterical Derek. I may get a little pissed off on >occasion, but not so much really. I do try to be constructive in my >occasional ranting and criticisms. I fail to see how posting a knee-jerk hysterical statement demanding to know "how this guy made it through playtesting" qualifies as constructive. Especially when said statement was generated from a careless skimming of the card, instead of an accurate assessment of the facts. >>You can only use his special if a "round" is occurring, meaning he >>cannot use his special outside of combat. > >Okay, so "round" is to infer a round of combat. Not quite as crazy then >as I surmised., What else would you believe "round" to infer, Bernie? Where else do "rounds" happen in V:TES besides combat? One round of a tournament is the only one which comes to mind; so this would mean that he can use his special once per game, effectively, yes? >I'm more suprised you bother to read my posts. I usually don't read >yours at all. ooo! ooo! so MEAN. Gosh, what'll I do? Bernie, I read all the posts. I'm not much on killfiles except for people who aren't even saying things related to the game anymore; I have a pretty thick skin, especially where USENET is concerned. I'm not surprised you don't read all the posts; you don't even read all of the card text. Perhaps if you did, you'd learn something. [ quoted text not captured ]

> > Notice how Jalan pretty much _is_ Karsh? how cool is that? > > salem > domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm Based on their stats in the RPG, I've had a theory for ages that they are they same vampire. Or at least parts of, say, the gangrel antedeluvian who split in two using the Protean 9 "Duel form" power. Their stats are totally identical in the RPG; both 5th gen Gangrel, embraced at the same time, neither have ever spoken of their sire, their stats are the same down to the last detail; disciplines, abilities, attributes, backgrounds, virtues, path rating (excluding where relevant to sect, for example, Karsh has Allies 8 - inner circle. And Jalan has Allies 8 - Black Hand) They even look the same. Weird.

Derek Ray expounded: > >>You can only use his special if a "round" is occurring, meaning he > >>cannot use his special outside of combat. NB it doesn't say that the effect lasts only for that round. LSJ will doubtless tell me it couldn't mean anything else ;-) but it should still have said "for that round" or something, especially since there is plenty of room for a little more text. > >Okay, so "round" is to infer a round of combat. Not quite as crazy then > >as I surmised., > > What else would you believe "round" to infer, Bernie? The word you're grasping for is "imply". [sorry -misuse of these words is becoming a pet hate; like people saying "offen" instead of "ofTen".. I'll shut up now]

Timlagor wrote: > [sorry -misuse of these words is becoming a pet hate; like people saying > "offen" instead of "ofTen".. I'll shut up now] "often" is pronounced without the T. It used to be (as recently as 1984) that that was the only recognized pronunciation, but, through enough misuse (which some would smooth over as part of the living language thing, like "dived" :-), pronouncing the T is recognized as an alternate pronunciation. http://www.m-w.com -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

>Their stats are totally identical in the RPG; both 5th gen Gangrel, >embraced at the same time, neither have ever spoken of their sire, >their stats are the same down to the last detail; disciplines, >abilities, attributes, backgrounds, virtues, path rating (excluding >where relevant to sect, for example, Karsh has Allies 8 - inner >circle. And Jalan has Allies 8 - Black Hand) >They even look the same. Not any more. I'd definitely have to say that Karsh looks a lot better than nasty old Jalan! I also think that for such combat monsters, the built-in rush is significantly better than Jalan's press and Seraph title (from what I can tell thus far). Especially since it makes multi-rush so much more viable with Karsh. Halcyan 2

LSJ expounded: > Timlagor wrote: > > [sorry -misuse of these words is becoming a pet hate; like people saying > > "offen" instead of "ofTen".. I'll shut up now] > > "often" is pronounced without the T. It used to be (as recently as 1984) that > that was the only recognized pronunciation, but, through enough misuse (which > some would smooth over as part of the living language thing, like "dived" :-), > pronouncing the T is recognized as an alternate pronunciation. > Interesting. I'm sure I've being pronouncing the T since before 1984. Are you talking about US pronunciation? -I know Websters is American. My Concise Oxford (1982) gives both pronunciations. I begin to suspect that the English have been prnouncnig the T for a long time and "offen" is american but I havevn't bothered to check. Any way: I still hate people saying "offen". ;P

Timlagor wrote: > Interesting. I'm sure I've being pronouncing the T since before 1984. > Are you talking about US pronunciation? -I know Websters is American. > > My Concise Oxford (1982) gives both pronunciations. I begin to suspect > that the English have been prnouncnig the T for a long time and "offen" > is american but I havevn't bothered to check. > Any way: I still hate people saying "offen". ;P "English" but "american"? What are you trying to imply there? :-) OK. You made me go to Google. Nice work. It wasn't us (the Americans, that is). According to Bartleby.com, the T was dropped from the pronunciation in the 15th century. Now the silent T is now "commonly" pronounced in often, according to Bartleby, although it "generally" remains silent in, for example, soften. http://www.bartleby.com/64/C007/0141.html [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ expounded: > Timlagor wrote: > > Interesting. I'm sure I've being pronouncing the T since before 1984. > > Are you talking about US pronunciation? -I know Websters is American. > > > > My Concise Oxford (1982) gives both pronunciations. I begin to suspect > > that the English have been prnouncnig the T for a long time and "offen" > > is american but I havevn't bothered to check. > > Any way: I still hate people saying "offen". ;P > > "English" but "american"? > What are you trying to imply there? :-) nothing.. nothing <looks gratuitously innocent> > OK. You made me go to Google. Nice work. Thank you. I made you go OT as well ;D > Now the silent T is now "commonly" pronounced in often, according to > Bartleby, although it "generally" remains silent in, for example, soften. Wow! people say sofTen? Ah well I suppose I'll just have to accept that not quite everything should be blamed on the Merkins. <g>

In message <MPG.1a19845db...@news.freeserve.com>, Timlagor <Timlagor...@yahoo.co.uk> mumbled something about: >Derek Ray expounded: >> >>You can only use his special if a "round" is occurring, meaning he >> >>cannot use his special outside of combat. > >NB it doesn't say that the effect lasts only for that round. LSJ will >doubtless tell me it couldn't mean anything else ;-) but it should still >have said "for that round" or something, especially since there is >plenty of room for a little more text. "once each round" indicates that there might be a necessity to do it during future rounds. hence, the effect must cease at the end of the current round. >> >Okay, so "round" is to infer a round of combat. Not quite as crazy then >> >as I surmised., >> >> What else would you believe "round" to infer, Bernie? > >The word you're grasping for is "imply". And I would have grasped that word if I wasn't quoting Bernie. >[sorry -misuse of these words is becoming a pet hate; like people saying >"offen" instead of "ofTen".. I'll shut up now] Grammar nitpicks are rarely-to-never welcome on USENET, by the way. Especially if you aim them at the wrong person. =) [ quoted text not captured ]

Timlagor <Timlagor...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:<MPG.1a19fc7fb...@news.freeserve.com>... > LSJ expounded: > > Timlagor wrote: > > > [sorry -misuse of these words is becoming a pet hate; like people saying > > > "offen" instead of "ofTen".. I'll shut up now] > > > > "often" is pronounced without the T. It used to be (as recently as 1984) > > that that was the only recognized pronunciation, but, through enough > > misuse (which some would smooth over as part of the living language > > thing, like "dived" :-), pronouncing the T is recognized as an alternate > > pronunciation. > > > > Interesting. I'm sure I've being pronouncing the T since before 1984. > Are you talking about US pronunciation? -I know Websters is American. The pronunciation "off-ten" versus "off-en" is, IIRC, a primary example of social insecurity causing linguistic over-correction. > My Concise Oxford (1982) gives both pronunciations. I begin to suspect > that the English have been prnouncnig the T for a long time and "offen" > is american but I havevn't bothered to check. Someone will probably have checked on this by this time, but I'm using google today. Hopefully James C. or someone else with a subscription to OED (or similarly useful reference) will feel bored enough to check on this. > Any way: I still hate people saying "offen". ;P And I feel exactly opposite, but don't bother to correct people (even my girlfriend). :P Um. Nothing above is on-topic. Hmm. Whats-his-name, the new Seraph doesn't excite me that much. But hey, new card! Built-in Skin of Night is okay, but I would have preferred to see something different, though perhaps not as exciting as a built-in Freak Drive or anything. Xian going to see the bear in the little car

Xian expounded: > > Interesting. I'm sure I've being pronouncing the T since before 1984. > > Are you talking about US pronunciation? -I know Websters is American. > > The pronunciation "off-ten" versus "off-en" is, IIRC, a primary > example of social insecurity causing linguistic over-correction. could you elaborate? > > Any way: I still hate people saying "offen". ;P > > And I feel exactly opposite, but don't bother to correct people (even > my girlfriend). :P I'll be careful to say "frequently" if Iknow you're around ;) OT bit: Anyone got the Scrye with Selena? Is there anything actually worth reading in it? (it costs nearly £4 and it didn't look like there would be anything I would want to read) :)

>Anyone got the Scrye with Selena? Is there anything actually worth >reading in it? (it costs nearly £4 and it didn't look like there would >be anything I would want to read) It's okay. It comes with Selena, card for Ophidian? (some gladiatorial ccg), and some special expansion cards for some weird game I've never heard of. There's one Vampire article (by Mike Nudd) talking about an Anarch Revolt deck. It has a full page VTES ad for Black Hand with a big picture of Teresita. Mentions early 2004 as the "Judgment" expansion for VTES (Gehenna?). And has a short but riduculous attempt to list prices. That's about it in terms of VTES. Truth be told, not really worth it. I only got it for Selena, and at least in my case, the card stock was poor. ='( Halcyan 2 But go !Tremere anyway...

> They even look the same. > > Weird. nope, they are twins. They where sired by some wacky guy to see how different a pair of twins could be and they ended up pretty different: Jalal is a kick-ass dude for the Black Hand Karsh is an Camarilla Warchief Pretty weird experiment, but hey if I where a vampire for a couple of years I would be the next Hugh Heffner or something :D /Kitzune