Clio's Kiss and Titles

Clio's kiss refers to a vampire another methuselha is contesting with you... does that include a vampire a methuselah control's title contesting one of your vampire's titles, or just the actual name of the vampire itself? BTW I'm referring to TEM clio's kiss. Just curious... BTW, would it be a silly deck concept to use the TEM effect of this as a focus along with recruitment? I could pay two, contest, and get the vampire, over and over and over again... Hmm... never mind, it sucks... ~SV

vermillian <vermil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:f987c6cd.0205...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Well, combine Recruitment and Clio's kiss and Gloconda and you may have something. Lots of moving parts though. Also you'd want to have every Vampire in the game in your crypt with another 100/150 Trujah in there. Pretty silly indeed as I don't even own every Vampire yet. I'm short all the sabbat only Tremere! and some pander.

"Dave Brereton" <Brer...@shaw.ca> wrote: > vermillian <vermil...@yahoo.com> wrote >> BTW, would it be a silly deck concept to use the TEM effect of this as >> a focus along with recruitment? >> >> I could pay two, contest, and get the vampire, over and over and over >> again... Hmm... never mind, it sucks... > > Well, combine Recruitment and Clio's kiss and Gloconda and you may have > something. Lots of moving parts though. Also you'd want to have every > Vampire in the game in your crypt with another 100/150 Trujah in there. > Pretty silly indeed as I don't even own every Vampire yet. I'm short all > the sabbat only Tremere! and some pander. Well, here's a new twist to Leggy's betrayer deck! Bleu

"vermillian" <vermil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:f987c6cd.0205...@posting.google.com... > Clio's kiss refers to a vampire another methuselha is contesting with > you... does that include a vampire a methuselah control's title > contesting one of your vampire's titles, or just the actual name of > the vampire itself? It only means contesting actual vampires and not titles. > BTW I'm referring to TEM clio's kiss. > > Just curious... > > BTW, would it be a silly deck concept to use the TEM effect of this as > a focus along with recruitment? > > I could pay two, contest, and get the vampire, over and over and over > again... Hmm... never mind, it sucks... Biggest problem is that you have to pay 2+capacity to contest the vampire. You'd only want to do it if the vampire you're contesting is useful to you. If you did do it, you'd only put into your crypt vampires that you see often and you want for youeself or really annoy you. Like Arika if you're playing a vote deck, or Beast if you're playing a rush/S:CE deck.

vermillian wrote: > > Clio's kiss refers to a vampire another methuselha is contesting with > you... does that include a vampire a methuselah control's title > contesting one of your vampire's titles, or just the actual name of > the vampire itself? The latter. Contesting a title is not the same as contesting a vampire. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"GreySeer" <e...@i.think.not> wrote: > Biggest problem is that you have to pay 2+capacity to contest the vampire. Dreams, Montreal, Tomb and Enchant Kindred could bring the cost down. Zillah's Valley could help speed up the process at a small cost. I would also add some Stranger Among Us cards to get the Trujah and any scarce vampires others are playing. Betrayer could be used to help cause pool damage until you get them out. Obviously, there's some fat listed that would have to be trimmed down. > If you did do it, you'd only put into your crypt vampires that you see often > and you want for youeself or really annoy you. Like Arika if you're playing > vote deck, or Beast if you're playing a rush/S:CE deck. You're missing the point entirely. The deck that exploits this would be all about bring out vampires, contesting them with others and then burning their copy. You've paid for the vampire and get to keep it. They've paid for the vampire and don't. This wouldn't be a vote deck or a rush deck. This is a resource theft deck. Decks that use mid to large capacity vampires would be utterly screwed by this. Weenie hordes would largely be unaffected, I would think, unless you added some Domain Challenge votes. You'd have to a lot of bleed defense and a light amount of vote and combat defense. This would take a fair amount of R&D to get the proportions right, but it could be pretty vicious if done right. Regards, Noal

Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:bb705c59.0205...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] How bout combine with a Settie Kobar Towers? Contest a Vamp, get him, minion tap, send him to those bad apartment buildings for a profit. Too many moving parts. Weenie corruption is better.

"Noal McDonald" <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:bb705c59.0205...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] I guess I'm too used to building decks based around disciplines, it would be hard to build this kind of deck using vamps with common disciplines. I suppose all you really need to do it contest vampires w/ titles and/or +bleed and you can vote or bleed your way to victory. In any case I think it would be a difficult deck to build and get VPs with but I'd like to see it done.

"Dave Brereton" <Brer...@shaw.ca> wrote: > How bout combine with a Settie Kobar Towers? Requires a Setite. But certainly a possibility. Golconda is also good, but requires 8+ cap vampires. Won't help you if your prey isn't paying large cap vampires. > Too many moving parts. Weenie corruption is better. Weenie corruption requires a lot of actions and/or Venenations and is very slow if your prey plays with big vampires. It's also even more subject to anti-weenie tactics because it doesn't bleed its prey fast enough. Before deciding which is better, perhaps you might want to wait for the movie to come out instead of judging it based on its trailers. Regards, Noal

"GreySeer" <e...@i.think.not> wrote: > I guess I'm too used to building decks based around disciplines, it would be > hard to build this kind of deck using vamps with common disciplines. I > suppose all you really need to do it contest vampires w/ titles and/or > +bleed and you can vote or bleed your way to victory. You wouldn't need to have anything more than Computer Hacking to oust your prey. After you've deprived him of his most/all of his vampires, he won't be able to defend against you. *ponders* Oh god...Agaitas with a vampire stealing deck would be just plain rude. You steal your prey's vampires and play his deck against him. Has anyone done this yet? Regards, Noal

> BTW, would it be a silly deck concept to use the TEM effect of this as > a focus along with recruitment? > > I could pay two, contest, and get the vampire, over and over and over > again... Hmm... never mind, it sucks... > > ~SV Hmm... it will be OK if people around you play big vamps. It could be something like this: Crypt: 1 of every vampire in the game, and 150 syntheosis (will use his obf). You can rely on reqruitments to get the trujah, but it would be quicker if you get one in opening draw. Master: 4*Info Hwy 7*reqruitment 5*Betrayer 2*Parthenon 4*Obfuscate 2*The glaconda tower (will get a settite sooner or latter) 2*Glaconda 4*minion tap 1*Fragment of the book of Nod 1*barrens Minion: 10*Domain of evernight (+1 stealth at outferior) 8*Assorted OBF stealth 2*rumors of gehenna 3*delaying tactics 5*deflection (will get a minion with dom eventually) 7*Clio's Kiss 8*Majesty needs more cards, other ideas? Naram

> Crypt: > 1 of every vampire in the game, and 150 syntheosis (will use his obf). > You can rely on reqruitments to get the trujah, but it would be > quicker if you get one in opening draw. > Master: > 7*reqruitment You might want to include a few The Stranger Among Us as it's a bit cheaper and you can use it to get Syneosis and any other scarce vamp. Sorrow --- "No, you're insane" -Tyler Durden

"Noal McDonald" <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:bb705c59.02052...@posting.google.com... > Oh god...Agaitas with a vampire stealing deck would be just plain > rude. You steal your prey's vampires and play his deck against him. > Has anyone done this yet? Yeah. So far it's pretty weak. I've tried Agaitas/Salubri/Spirit Marionette, which works OK except that it's only actually good if your prey is playing a bleed deck (stealth-bleed even better). Agaitas/Hostile Takeover has the problem that you're paying your prey pool for the vamps you steal, if you can even afford them. (It usually turns out that you're (I'm) not willing to pay what it would take rather than just let my prey bleed himself for, say, 4 to keep the vamp.) Agaitas/ToGP might be slightly better except that (a) you have to have out at least 15 capacity of vampires to do this (unless getting Justicars with vote cards, somewhat excessively tricky), (b) it costs 3 up front, and (c) using Agaitas is probably not the key to winning with this deck. I've also tried Agaitas/Ian Forestal and that hasn't done very well either. Agaitas, so far, seems to be pretty cute but not very effective (at least for me) in actually letting you play your prey's deck (unless by some chance your prey is using exactly the right cards for you to be able to play them). My guess is that this is largely because you'll never be able to play your prey's deck as well as he can. You only ever get a 3-4 card "hand" of his deck (unless you manage to play *everything* from your hand and replace with his, unlikely and not necessarily even desirable) and don't have as many vampires with the right skills as he does. Josh theorizin'

stor...@msn.com (Naram) wrote in message news:<cbc63db8.02052...@posting.google.com>... > Crypt: > 1 of every vampire in the game, and 150 syntheosis (will use his obf). > You can rely on reqruitments to get the trujah, but it would be > quicker if you get one in opening draw. > > Master: > 4*Info Hwy > 7*reqruitment > 5*Betrayer > 2*Parthenon > 4*Obfuscate > 2*The glaconda tower (will get a settite sooner or latter) > 2*Glaconda > 4*minion tap > 1*Fragment of the book of Nod > 1*barrens > > Minion: > 10*Domain of evernight (+1 stealth at outferior) > 8*Assorted OBF stealth > 2*rumors of gehenna > 3*delaying tactics > 5*deflection (will get a minion with dom eventually) > 7*Clio's Kiss > 8*Majesty > > needs more cards, other ideas? Um... need more clio's kiss and more parthenon's?

vermil...@yahoo.com (vermillian) wrote in message news:<f987c6cd.02052...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] probably, still parthies are unique, I think. here are some tweaks that i came up with after posting: 1) Use syntheosis's special, include a few master-out-of-turns such as sudden reversal and major boon (more bleed defence). 2) Add a bit a of weeny-swarm defence by doubling up on Rebbekah the chantry elder in the crypt. She does not tap to block vamp's <4, so she can really ruin a weeny deck's day. When she runs out of blood, send her to the tower and bring out another copy (that's the reason to double her up). Also add a sports bike or two for her to ride to shut down embraces. 3) possibly count on someone to play a pince/justicar that you will steal and include some traditions... particularly 5th 4) another minion tap or two 5) Sargon fragment to recycle combo parts 6) take out the vampires from the crypt that you have never seen in play before (like appolonios, patricia giovanni, rex, ect.) What the deck still needs: -a way to play more masters -to be better able to avoid hand jam -Combat defence? (protect syntheosis) -Speed? (pretty much need that info hwy to work) -Some other way to use the fact that you have possible access to any vampire in the game? Any suggestions on how to deal with these? Naram PS: now, who has 149 Syntheosis to trade :)

>> 1 of every vampire in the game, and 150 syntheosis (will use his obf). >> You can rely on reqruitments to get the trujah, but it would be >> quicker if you get one in opening draw. >> Master: >> 7*reqruitment > >You might want to include a few The Stranger Among Us as it's a bit >cheaper and you can use it to get Syneosis and any other scarce >vamp. Actually, Recruitment is better because you can use it to get other vampires (to contest). Stranger is only useful for Synesios. In a pinch, you can Recruit Synesios as well. Considering how there are 486 vampires in the game, I'd go for more Synesios. I'd say 485 (other vampires) and 485 x 3 = 1455. With 75% Synesios, you can pretty much guarantee you'll get him in your opening crypt. And then Recruit the necessary vampires. BTW: Are there any tournament rules regarding what to do with unwieldy crypts? You'd think that shuffling a 1000+ card crypt might take a while... << 2) Add a bit a of weeny-swarm defence by doubling up on Rebbekah the chantry elder in the crypt. She does not tap to block vamp's <4, so she can really ruin a weeny deck's day. When she runs out of blood, send her to the tower and bring out another copy (that's the reason to double her up). Also add a sports bike or two for her to ride to shut down embraces. >> I think you mean Justine, Elder of Dallas (AUS DOM obf THA, Primogen, anti-weenie special) not Rebekka, Chantry Elder of Munich (AUS pot PRE THA, +1 stealth, +1 bleed vs. Malks). Halcyan 2

[ quoted text not captured ] You mean Justine the Elder of something or another? Rebekka has natural stealth (and presence if I remember correctly...). Justine has obf and anti-weenie special... Good luck on actually creating this deck though... PS If you want to have Justine possibility too, then you're going to have to go with 49.5% Justine 49.5% Synesios and 1% other vampires... Now that's a lot of Justine and Synesios... ~SV

"Joshua Duffin" <jtdu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<acgsr9$oluam$1...@ID-121616.news.dfncis.de>... > "Noal McDonald" <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote in message > news:bb705c59.02052...@posting.google.com... > > > Oh god...Agaitas with a vampire stealing deck would be just plain > > rude. You steal your prey's vampires and play his deck against him. > > Has anyone done this yet? > > Yeah. > > So far it's pretty weak. Consider Agiatus and Snakeys? Temptation and Form of Corruption and what not. Add a Heilderberg or 6 to your deck to guarantee getting one (you only see, like 50% of your deck anyhow if this deck is working). Could work... Something like 6 Agaitus 6 Dedefra (lowest cap with SER) 10 Temptation 10 Form of Corruption 4 Barrens 4 Fragment of Book of Nod 4 Sargon Fragment 10 Obfuscate/Necromancy Stealth (dedefra has nec BTW) 5 Heidelberg that's 47 cards... fill in with some wakes, parthenon, blood doll, Throne's Crumble, ecstacy, whatever your local metagame demands... ~SV

stor...@msn.com (Naram) wrote in message news:<cbc63db8.02052...@posting.google.com>... > > BTW, would it be a silly deck concept to use the TEM effect of this as > > a focus along with recruitment? > > > > I could pay two, contest, and get the vampire, over and over and over > > again... Hmm... never mind, it sucks... > > > > ~SV > > Hmm... it will be OK if people around you play big vamps. It could be > something like this: > <snip your deck which I have copied with a few changes> It is sort of a silly concept, but it could be quite fun, and powerful as long as your predator or prey wasn't playing a real rush deck. My version of the crypt would be every vampire in the game plus Synesios 4 times. No one is actually going to get 150 Synesios, and anyway you would need more like 225 or something. The Library just has an extra recruitment. I decided that one Stranger Among us wasn't worth it because you couldn't count on drawing it first, and if you drew it later it wouldn't help unless your target was playing scarce vamps. If someone does get a hundred Synesios, then they should take out all the vamps that no one plays with and every vampire 3 and below, as they aren't worth stealing. If this deck will work, it will operate on the same principle as an all bloat deck. Get out loads of minions that you barely pay for and swarm. Anyway here is my version of the Library: Library: (90 cards) ------------------- Master (40 cards) 5 Betrayer 3 Golconda: Inner Peace 4 Information Highway 11 Minion Tap 6 Parthenon, The 11 Recruitment Action (10 cards) 10 Clio's Kiss Action Modifier (18 cards) 1 Cloak the Gathering 10 Domain of Evernight 1 Faceless Night 4 Forgotten Labyrinth 1 Lost in Crowds 1 Spying Mission Reaction (8 cards) 5 Deflection 3 Delaying Tactics Combat (14 cards) 4 Dodge 7 Fake Out 3 Majesty Despite what someone said about the Parthenon being unique, you really really need it. I should even put a rumors in, but eh.... The combat defense module should work against stupid Immortal Grapple and casual combat. The dodges will actually work on the minions you get that *don't* have presence. Betrayer rocks, but remember that you need to recruit at least 2 of your prey's vamps in order to make them take more than 2 per betrayer. I think your version was really short on the blood gain. After paying for 2 recruitments and Synesios, if you don't draw a minion tap (4/90 ain't good odds) then you are dead against any competitive deck. Comments? Colin Riggs ah.. trick decks...

"vermillian" <vermil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:f987c6cd.02052...@posting.google.com... > "Joshua Duffin" <jtdu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<acgsr9$oluam$1...@ID-121616.news.dfncis.de>... > > "Noal McDonald" <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote in message > > news:bb705c59.02052...@posting.google.com... > > > > > Oh god...Agaitas with a vampire stealing deck would be just plain > > > rude. You steal your prey's vampires and play his deck against him. > > > Has anyone done this yet? > > > > Yeah. > > > > So far it's pretty weak. > > Consider Agiatus and Snakeys? Temptation and Form of Corruption and > what not. Add a Heilderberg or 6 to your deck to guarantee getting one > (you only see, like 50% of your deck anyhow if this deck is working). I don't think I've yet done Agaitas w/Setites, though I have done Spirit Marionette w/Setites (didn't pan out that well, that was the ill-fated "Madness Network for Salubri who Spirit Marionette at the end of their predator's turn and then eat the stolen vamp with Khobar Towers from their Setite buddies" deck). Might be worthwhile, although given my experiences so far I really doubt it'll be killer. :-) > Could work... Something like > > 6 Agaitus > 6 Dedefra (lowest cap with SER) Lowest with SER yeah, but probably not that much worth saving 1 pool vs Hesha's ability. The Nec crossover is a little convincing but not very (to me) since Nec stealth is much less good than Obf stealth. I'd probably figure the benefits of less duplication outweigh SER-guarantee and 5-capness, since the Ser cards you're using don't differ *that* much at [ser] vs [SER]. 1 Lalitha (ser) 1 Celine Chevalier (obf ser) 1 Nepata (obf pre ser) 1 Count Ormonde (OBF pre ser) 1 Dedefra (obf SER nec) 1 Hesha Ruhadze (obf pre SER) > 10 Temptation > 10 Form of Corruption Way too many Forms. Maybe 6. Maybe. 10 Temptation's not unreasonable, if you can get that many. :-) > 4 Barrens > 4 Fragment of Book of Nod > 4 Sargon Fragment Do we want to get cards out of the ash heap or something? Which ones, if so? > 10 Obfuscate/Necromancy Stealth (dedefra has nec BTW) I'd figure, hey, why not more stealth and some Obf masters, so Agaitas can be stealthy too, and also so you can get OBF to use Cloak. > 5 Heidelberg > > that's 47 cards... fill in with some wakes, parthenon, blood doll, > Throne's Crumble, ecstacy, whatever your local metagame demands... Reasonable plan. I'd definitely want to fill with at least something like: 8 Wake/wEF 7 Telepathic Misdirection for a little defense against getting killed while getting nowhere with the Kool Kombo. (Agaitas can T-Misdirect at superior, which is convenient.) Josh time to go!

> > <snip your deck which I have copied with a few changes> cool, I was hoping someone with more !Trujah stuff then I would give this idea a try. Please post how the deck actually does if you get a chance to try it out. > > It is sort of a silly concept, but it could be quite fun, and powerful > as long as your predator or prey wasn't playing a real rush deck. Yah, a torporised/empty syntheosis will ruin your day. > > My version of the crypt would be every vampire in the game plus > Synesios 4 times. No one is actually going to get 150 Synesios, and > anyway you would need more like 225 or something. The Library just has > an extra recruitment. I decided that one Stranger Among us wasn't > worth it because you couldn't count on drawing it first, and if you > drew it later it wouldn't help unless your target was playing scarce > vamps. I agree completly, if I ever actually make the deck it would be along those lines. <snip> > Anyway here is my version of the Library: > > Library: (90 cards) > ------------------- > Master (40 cards) > 5 Betrayer > 3 Golconda: Inner Peace > 4 Information Highway > 11 Minion Tap > 6 Parthenon, The > 11 Recruitment > I would still work in a pair of khobar towers, saves master slots in the long run (if there is a long run for this deck, that is). Also 11! minion taps seems really high, considering that it will take at least 3 turns to "take over" any vamp with above 6 capacity (assuming an info hwy in play). > Action (10 cards) > 10 Clio's Kiss > In our metagame a rumor almos always passes, and I think it staks w/ a parthenon. > Action Modifier (18 cards) > 1 Cloak the Gathering > 10 Domain of Evernight this card simply rocks, stalth and a freak drive all-in-one, how can you go wrong :) > 1 Faceless Night > 4 Forgotten Labyrinth > 1 Lost in Crowds > 1 Spying Mission > > Reaction (8 cards) > 5 Deflection > 3 Delaying Tactics > > Combat (14 cards) > 4 Dodge > 7 Fake Out > 3 Majesty > > Despite what someone said about the Parthenon being unique, you really > really need it. I should even put a rumors in, but eh.... The combat > defense module should work against stupid Immortal Grapple and casual > combat. The dodges will actually work on the minions you get that > *don't* have presence. Betrayer rocks, but remember that you need to > recruit at least 2 of your prey's vamps in order to make them take > more than 2 per betrayer. If you go with that many parthenons, you may need to include a way to cycle all the dead ones latter (not to mention extra info hwy's, cleo's kisses, ect.). I like your combat defence module, I would even throw in an IR gogle or even a deer rifle for more permanent manuever goodness. (depending on the amount of combat you expect to see. > > I think your version was really short on the blood gain. After paying > for 2 recruitments and Synesios, if you don't draw a minion tap (4/90 > ain't good odds) then you are dead against any competitive deck. > you are probably right, although some major boons (Syntheosis's special) could help with early bleed defence. > Colin Riggs Naram > ah.. trick decks... ...only work if the the great beast is involved ;) ... or if it's a third tuesaday after a second consecutive solar eclipse :)

Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:bb705c59.02052...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Sure, perhaps when I see a deck that uses this I'll post my Embrace/Corruption deck. 10 coruption actions a turn isn't all that slow...

"Dave Brereton" <Brer...@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:a1SH8.138255$GG6.11...@news3.calgary.shaw.ca... > Sure, perhaps when I see a deck that uses this I'll post my > Embrace/Corruption deck. 10 coruption actions a turn isn't all that slow... Not once it gets rolling, no. But if your Embrace/CI/whatever actions get intercepted, it's going to take a long time to get up to 10 actions per turn. Even at best speed, it'd still take, what, 4 or 5 turns to get 10 minions on the table? Xian

Xian <xi...@waste.org> wrote in message news:acoulb$rgedl$1...@ID-123937.news.dfncis.de... [ quoted text not captured ] Maybe it's the meta-game around here but I don't actuly think of this deck as a slow deck. At it's fastest I think I can have 6 minions in 3 turns and then go from there. Turn 1 bring out Hadrain Garrick. Turn 2 play a hunting ground and embrace with Hadrain; embrace gets a presence skill card and hunts. Influence Celaine. Turn 3 hunting ground onto Embrace. All 3 embrace. Bring out Count Ormond or Sir Marriot. By now I've got a hand full of corruptions so I better start using them. Over the next few turns I'll play 3-4 corruptions a turn and get a embrace or 2 back in my hand and bring out another Vamp, prob a big one with OBF,SER,PRE and find the Kobar Towers along the way. After 8-9 turns I'll have 7-9 minions of my own and at least 1 5+ cap from someone else. I have a few Con Boon in the deck just in case I can make friends with some cross table votes and I find a rave is handy now and then. Unless heavy bleed is my preditor then I don't really run into pool shortages too quickly. I love to sit as the preditor of low cap PRE bleed or, (even better) low cap PRE vote! Not a deck that will sweep every table it sits down at but one that is fun to play and is good at what it does.

"Joshua Duffin" <jtdu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<acll16$qtub2$1...@ID-121616.news.dfncis.de>... > "vermillian" <vermil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:f987c6cd.02052...@posting.google.com... > > "Joshua Duffin" <jtdu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:<acgsr9$oluam$1...@ID-121616.news.dfncis.de>... > > > "Noal McDonald" <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote in message > > > news:bb705c59.02052...@posting.google.com... > > Consider Agiatus and Snakeys? Temptation and Form of Corruption and > > what not. Add a Heilderberg or 6 to your deck to guarantee getting one > > (you only see, like 50% of your deck anyhow if this deck is working). > > I don't think I've yet done Agaitas w/Setites, though I > have done Spirit Marionette w/Setites (didn't pan out that > well, that was the ill-fated "Madness Network for Salubri > who Spirit Marionette at the end of their predator's turn > and then eat the stolen vamp with Khobar Towers from their > Setite buddies" deck). Might be worthwhile, although given > my experiences so far I really doubt it'll be killer. :-) Yeah... I remember that crap deck... I was there for that thread. My god... what were we thinking! :) > > Could work... Something like > > > > 6 Agaitus > > 6 Dedefra (lowest cap with SER) > > Lowest with SER yeah, but probably not that much worth > saving 1 pool vs Hesha's ability. The Nec crossover is > a little convincing but not very (to me) since Nec stealth > is much less good than Obf stealth. I'd probably figure > the benefits of less duplication outweigh SER-guarantee > and 5-capness, since the Ser cards you're using don't > differ *that* much at [ser] vs [SER]. > > 1 Lalitha (ser) > 1 Celine Chevalier (obf ser) > 1 Nepata (obf pre ser) > 1 Count Ormonde (OBF pre ser) > 1 Dedefra (obf SER nec) > 1 Hesha Ruhadze (obf pre SER) OK, hesha rocks... he's in. But all we want to do is tempt like mad and use their minions, so... 5 Agaitus 2 Hesha 2 Counts 3 Dedefra > > 10 Temptation > > 10 Form of Corruption > > Way too many Forms. Maybe 6. Maybe. 10 Temptation's > not unreasonable, if you can get that many. :-) But... FoC rocks! Besides, we're not playing with much of our deck here. We need high ratios of important cards. (Brag alert) As for temptations I've got 6! :) I LOVE temtpation. :) (I want more!) > > 4 Barrens > > 4 Fragment of Book of Nod > > 4 Sargon Fragment > > Do we want to get cards out of the ash heap or something? > Which ones, if so? Eh, we only see so many cards per game... being able to grab back a failed temptation or some stealth used or a failed minion tap is always good. > > 10 Obfuscate/Necromancy Stealth (dedefra has nec BTW) > > I'd figure, hey, why not more stealth and some Obf > masters, so Agaitas can be stealthy too, and also so you > can get OBF to use Cloak. Um... OK on the OBF to cloak part, but Obf skill cards bumps our master slots and that's another moving part we don't need... we really don't want Agaitus doing anything, we just want his special. > > 5 Heidelberg > > > > that's 47 cards... fill in with some wakes, parthenon, blood doll, > > Throne's Crumble, ecstacy, whatever your local metagame demands... > > Reasonable plan. I'd definitely want to fill with at least > something like: > > 8 Wake/wEF > 7 Telepathic Misdirection > > for a little defense against getting killed while getting > nowhere with the Kool Kombo. (Agaitas can T-Misdirect at > superior, which is convenient.) Sure.. but this deck sucks and will never work. :) Just like wishing though, don't ya? ~SV

"Dave Brereton" <Brer...@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:d2iI8.56945$Ka.42...@news2.calgary.shaw.ca... > > Xian <xi...@waste.org> wrote in message > news:acoulb$rgedl$1...@ID-123937.news.dfncis.de... > > > > "Dave Brereton" <Brer...@shaw.ca> wrote in message > > news:a1SH8.138255$GG6.11...@news3.calgary.shaw.ca... > > > Sure, perhaps when I see a deck that uses this I'll post my > > > Embrace/Corruption deck. 10 coruption actions a turn isn't all that > > > slow... > > > > Not once it gets rolling, no. But if your Embrace/CI/whatever actions get > > intercepted, it's going to take a long time to get up to 10 actions per > > turn. Even at best speed, it'd still take, what, 4 or 5 turns to get 10 minions > > on the table? > > > Maybe it's the meta-game around here but I don't actuly think of this deck > as a slow deck. At it's fastest I think I can have 6 minions in 3 turns and > then go from there. With the example you give, yeah, it appears that my estimate of taking 4 to 5 turns (or more) is about right. I never said it was necessarily slow, but seriously, if you come up against anything with intercept early on, you're in trouble, because about half of your minions come from your library. Not that this will generally be a problem. Weenie decks tend to do well, and you don't often see early intercept in the game. Check my original assertion again. Personally, I just tend to prefer decks that can get going on their own, and don't require you to take actions to set up much. Not that I haven't played my share of weenie/Embrace decks. I'm just well aware that they can be shut down really easily. One game in Madison, I nearly didn't sweep with my Shadow Twin deck because of one stupid Atonement. :) [snip example] > handy now and then. Unless heavy bleed is my preditor then I don't really > run into pool shortages too quickly. I love to sit as the preditor of low > cap PRE bleed or, (even better) low cap PRE vote! Not a deck that will > sweep every table it sits down at but one that is fun to play and is good at > what it does. Heh. Yeah, it's always good preying on weenies when you're playing a Corruption deck. Xian

> Personally, I just tend to prefer decks that can get going on their own, and > don't require you to take actions to set up much. Not that I haven't played my > share of weenie/Embrace decks. I'm just well aware that they can be shut down > really easily. One game in Madison, I nearly didn't sweep with my Shadow Twin > deck because of one stupid Atonement. :) > I'd be interested in said Shadow Twin deck. I'm trying a few things with that card but it's hard to get the right minions out.

"Dave Brereton" <Brer...@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:R1CJ8.163239$GG6.13...@news3.calgary.shaw.ca... [I wrote stuff that I snipped] > > One game in Madison, I nearly didn't sweep with my Shadow > > Twin deck because of one stupid Atonement. :) [note that I said "nearly" :)] > > I'd be interested in said Shadow Twin deck. I'm trying a few things with > that card but it's hard to get the right minions out. I'm surprised Jeff hasn't jumped all over this one yet. It's in his archive somewhere, let me go check. Here it is: http://www.thelasombra.com/decks/xian.htm#shadowtwinning I believe that Wes (I think?) did very well (won?) a tournament with a very similar deck at some point late last year or early this year. I could be mistaken, though. Xian

Xian <xi...@waste.org> wrote in message news:adamn2$visr5$1...@ID-123937.news.dfncis.de... [ quoted text not captured ] Interesting. I was trying to get it done with just Lasombra but it just wasn't working. Too many doubles in the crypt or the crypt got too big. This should work with the !Ventrue guys in there (is it just one? I don't recall.) I should build the deck before the Jyhad gods abondon me. I played 3 games today and won them all. Inculding a game where I used my Free States Rant deck featuring all 4 FN 11 caps. It's pretty much a Dom/Nec/Pre/Obf deck that is pretty weak at best. One other was a game with my reworking of the Hadelburg/Spirit Marionet where my prey finds his Vamps bleeding him early in the morning. The other was with my pretty nasty reworked Tzimisce "Don't do anything I can block" deck where I prove that I, in fact, can block everthing and every vampire I block does in fact need to go to sleep for a while. Nasty piece of work. It may be an interesting deck to post in fact altho I'm sure that people are tired of intercept combat. d.