Weenie fortitude

I've spent some time searching through deck archives looking for other examples of this platform. I've had some success with it in various flavors around our local meta-game, which makes me assume that either: a) Dave, you're just a lucky bastard and this deck actually sucks, or b) lots of other people have built them, probably more slickly than thou, and you just can't find them. So, anybody care to point me in the direction of some archived decks? Or share thoughts/reminiscences/horror stories about similiar decks you may've built? I'd be happy to elaborate on the ones I've built (and the -mwhahahah- new one I've got loaded in the chamber. And just for the record, I'm of the opinion that people who play weenie-whatever should spend the rest of eternity strapped face down to red hot sheet metal with ten-ton weights strapped to their backs (cookie for anyone who can name the source I cribbed that from... extra hint: "your mother sucks wet farts out of dead pigeons"). However, this is for the GF, and she likes 'em straight forward and disposable. We're working on her...... Lastly, "Hey" to the Atlanta crowd. Didn't get to hang out nearly long with you guys but I had a great time anyway. David Cherryholmes

"David Cherryholmes" <d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu> wrote > > And just for the record, I'm of the opinion that people who play > weenie-whatever should spend the rest of eternity strapped face down > to red hot sheet metal with ten-ton weights strapped to their backs It burns! It burns! Get it off me!

hey! I tried a weenie fortitude bomb deck once, it probably would work for superior fortitude, but I could only drop 5-7 points of damage prevention once or twice before handjamming on other useful things (like bombs). It did carry a decent intimidation factor, though. I also tried a fortitude bloat deck, with 10 Blood Dolls and 12-15 Restorations; that bloated fairly well, and also bled for one a lot. I've seen a few Undead Persistance decks played in my playgroup, but not too often. I just remember a lot of vamps bleeding for one, and ending up in torpor a lot. That's about all I can remember. >However, this is for the GF, and she likes 'em straight forward >and disposable. We're working on her...... Remember: nothing says 'disposable' like a Caitiff. =) >Lastly, "Hey" to the Atlanta crowd. Didn't get to hang out nearly long >with you guys but I had a great time anyway. And it was good to have you down here. Rock on!

> I've spent some time searching through deck archives looking for > other examples of this platform. I've had some success with it in > various flavors around our local meta-game, which makes me assume that > either: a) Dave, you're just a lucky bastard and this deck actually sucks, or > b) lots of other people have built them, probably more slickly than thou, > and you just can't find them. > > So, anybody care to point me in the direction of some archived decks? > Or share thoughts/reminiscences/horror stories about similiar decks > you may've built? I'd be happy to elaborate on the ones I've built (and > the -mwhahahah- new one I've got loaded in the chamber. Last one I saw just fall apart was Derek trying one, with a prey with a million Vampiric Speeds, of all the godforsaken cards. Derek couldn't burn any prevent cards when the victim dodged instead of hit him, and the guys with inferior Fort-e-tood (most all of them) couldn't press with Indominability, and the vamp would escape the Trap with the Vampiric Speed's press. Corner case, I admit, but that was like, a year ago? And I haven't seen more than one or two in the group since. =) > And just for the record, I'm of the opinion that people who play > weenie-whatever should spend the rest of eternity strapped face down > to red hot sheet metal with ten-ton weights strapped to their backs I used to think that, but when you play with Mike Perlman, the Weeniemonger, enough times, you realize that it can be done with style. Once again, Mike managed to lose his predator (me) and prey (Tatu) 5 pool with an Ancient Influence called by a *weenie* deck. What's more, he did it with a 2 cap that had just become a 3-cap with a skill card, *and* did it with Bribes, for a net loss of 1 pool. Thank goodness he didn't draw into the Voter Cap to actually *gain* 1 pool out of it! > (cookie for anyone who can name the source I cribbed that from... > extra hint: "your mother sucks wet farts out of dead pigeons"). > However, this is for the GF, and she likes 'em straight forward > and disposable. We're working on her...... Mike says it best. If you want disposable, go with Caitiff. Why try to prevent damage on a vamp you consider disposable? =) > Lastly, "Hey" to the Atlanta crowd. Didn't get to hang out nearly long > with you guys but I had a great time anyway. Short for us, too. Glad you chose made the trip all the way down, though! -- Pat Ricochet Soul Jar'rn Fool of Atlanta "You can't make a fact out of an opinion by raising your voice."

On 24 May 2001 16:28:06 -0700, David Cherryholmes wrote: >However, this is for the GF, and she likes 'em straight forward >and disposable. We're working on her...... I have a weenie fortitude deck. It's simple and effective and it's the only deck my girlfriend is prepared to play too. I'll show you mine if you show me yours. Drop me an email - let the canaille find out the hard way. Sabbat War contained some weenie-hosers but I have the impression that they've not had much impression on the metagame. I'd expect Final Nights to make them more popular again. Old, expensive vampires already have ToGP and Rush to worry about. If the Assamites become effective at making hits and the Followers of Set become effective at stealing minions then this would swing the metagame even more decisively against them. The basic problem is that the game's mechanics are stacked so firmly against the older vampires. What's the point of buying a 10-cap with 6 different disciplines when you can't feasibly use more than a couple of them? They have titles but it's trivial for the weenie to acquire those too. All the old vampires have going for them is the 5th Trad/Minion Tap pool engine but that's sick and wrong too. Not that the rest of WoD isn't silly too. The Kindred show just had some Brujah/Ventrue feuding in which a Ventrue Archon had a fit of remorse and just himself be blown away. And Julian's as soppy as ever - would rather suffer Final Death than take blood from his new girlfriend. Maybe this Prince is really a weenie too. Meanwhile, in the computer game, Christof has just reached London where he is having to slaughter his way through the Society of Leopold. They deserve it for those awful fake Cockney accents but you'd expect the occasional pang of remorse from our noble hero in this case. Not a bit of it - his humanity score is as high as ever. He's newly embraced, you see and that makes him another uber-weenie. We were playing Shadowfist at the club last night - now that's a game in which mooks are cannon-fodder and royalty kicks butt. But my eye kept straying to the role-players where one chap had brought his attractive goth girlfriend. It would take more than a weenie to impress her, I fancy ... Andrew

Andrew S. Davidson <a...@csi.com> wrote in message news:<B2A7F3D3E2C167CA.01624BD5...@lp.airnews.net>... > On 24 May 2001 16:28:06 -0700, David Cherryholmes wrote: > > >However, this is for the GF, and she likes 'em straight forward > >and disposable. We're working on her...... > > I have a weenie fortitude deck. It's simple and effective and it's > the only deck my girlfriend is prepared to play too. I'll show you > mine if you show me yours. Drop me an email - let the canaille find > out the hard way. If you are talking Skin Trap, then shame on you for peddling such degenerate filth ;) > Sabbat War contained some weenie-hosers but I have the impression that > they've not had much impression on the metagame. I'd expect Final > Nights to make them more popular again. Old, expensive vampires > already have ToGP and Rush to worry about. If the Assamites become > effective at making hits and the Followers of Set become effective at > stealing minions then this would swing the metagame even more > decisively against them. Agreed, for sure. Rabble Razing R us! > The basic problem is that the game's mechanics are stacked so firmly > against the older vampires. What's the point of buying a 10-cap with > 6 different disciplines when you can't feasibly use more than a couple > of them? They have titles but it's trivial for the weenie to acquire > those too. All the old vampires have going for them is the 5th > Trad/Minion Tap pool engine but that's sick and wrong too. No, it's the only REAL defence against a sneak bleed (obf/dom) deck. It allows the game to be more interesting than a bleeding standoff (who can bleed the opposition the quickest) and allows more interesting strategies to flourish. <snip observations for pants TV franchise> > Meanwhile, in the computer game, Christof has just reached London > where he is having to slaughter his way through the Society of > Leopold. They deserve it for those awful fake Cockney accents but > you'd expect the occasional pang of remorse from our noble hero in > this case. Not a bit of it - his humanity score is as high as ever. > He's newly embraced, you see and that makes him another uber-weenie. Just wait 'till you get to the Setite temple - conclusive proof that rush beats weenie corruption every time! > We were playing Shadowfist at the club last night - now that's a game > in which mooks are cannon-fodder and royalty kicks butt. But my eye > kept straying to the role-players where one chap had brought his > attractive goth girlfriend. It would take more than a weenie to > impress her, I fancy ... Shame on you again. And shame on her - it's not live roleplay! Shame on me too, for missing the floorshow. :( DH

On Fri, 25 May 2001, Pat Ricochet wrote: > > And just for the record, I'm of the opinion that people who play > > weenie-whatever should spend the rest of eternity strapped face down > > to red hot sheet metal with ten-ton weights strapped to their backs > > I used to think that, but when you play with Mike Perlman, the > Weeniemonger, enough times, you realize that it can be done with style. > Once again, Mike managed to lose his predator (me) and prey (Tatu) 5 pool > with an Ancient Influence called by a *weenie* deck. What's more, he did it > with a 2 cap that had just become a 3-cap with a skill card, *and* did it > with Bribes, for a net loss of 1 pool. Thank goodness he didn't draw into > the Voter Cap to actually *gain* 1 pool out of it! 'Struth, I was engaging in a little gleeful hyperbole there; weenies have their place. The well-known "degenerate" elements of the game are just, so, *yawn* ;) The above sounds interesting, though. Hopefully my newest idea will be interesting as well (though it, too, shall probably go **boom**, and not in the "I'm packing bombs", for-tee-tude kinda way, either). > Mike says it best. If you want disposable, go with Caitiff. Why try to > prevent damage on a vamp you consider disposable? =) Only disposable to the degree that if one gets ashed it's not crippling in the way it would be to a deck that relies on one, or a few, vampires in the active region. David "thinking about a road-trip" Cherryholmes

d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu (David Cherryholmes) wrote in message news:<ebeb28f9.01052...@posting.google.com>... > I've spent some time searching through deck archives looking for > other examples of this platform. I've had some success with it in > various flavors around our local meta-game, which makes me assume that > either: a) Dave, you're just a lucky bastard and this deck actually sucks, or > b) lots of other people have built them, probably more slickly than thou, > and you just can't find them. > > So, anybody care to point me in the direction of some archived decks? > Or share thoughts/reminiscences/horror stories about similiar decks > you may've built? Well, my fortitude horde has long since been taken apart (it couldn't compete in our playgroup, but it was fun). It basically revolved around inferior fortitude and guns/equipment. It was a lot of fun and having people fear 1 and 2 caps was hiliarious. One of the tricks I found was using Pier 13, so I could get more weapons out. Honestly, preventing all day long is good, but if you're only punching for 1, it's not worth it. Pier 13 also allowed me to get out my laptops faster which helped alot. Another trick I designed in, but never really got to use was having my most dangerous weapons on my obf guys. Mask of 1k faces would be such an evil surprise! I guess I just stopped playing it because the combat decks in our group often did more damage than I could prevent (I went without SoS instead using lots of the 1-2 damage prevents). The deck could really work, but I just stopped trying... I'd be happy to elaborate on the ones I've built (and > the -mwhahahah- new one I've got loaded in the chamber. > Please do... =) Aramis

Tried to reply via email, but the message got bounced back due to the domain being unresolveable. Hmmm.... mail's been getting funky around here lately (sorry about the initial double post... went to Google for the second one since the first one wasn't showing on my end). In any case, here's the reply: I'm at work and I don't have the deck archived here, but I'll happily give you the gist of it: Crypt: the twelve smallest guys with fortitude (got 'em all) Master: 7 Fortitudes (having FOR is important for this one) 4 Tributes (see below) 3 Effective Managements (staple weenie-deck master) Library: (all numbers are approximate) 12 Rapid Healing 8 Restoration 8 Undead Persistance 8 Traps 8 Force of Will 6 Freak Drives 6 Day Operations 4 Dawn Operations 4 Amaranth I'm sure you're familiar with the FoW schtick, so you know the challenge is always how to "get sideways" without bleeding. I've done it a few different ways in the past (rushes, equips, et al.). This time around, I'm thinking do a few bleeds for one to either get into trapped combat to get light enough to hunt or kill time until the Tribute shows up. Then *wham*, nice pool gain and all your guys are hunt-legit. The rest is pretty standard, so I won't waste time explaining the obvious :) Weenie-hood handles the critical point of successfully rapid-healing out of torpor without getting blocked (overwhelm their blocking ability or revel in you minions disposable-ness if they are truly hard-core about keeping you there). Having another minion do the rescue also takes care of the doom scenario of minions at full blood cap as another, lesser, alternative. I suspect I need to have more, lots more, tributes in there, but master space is tight. I'll probably cut down on the FOR skill cards a wee bit, and throw in a couple Parthenons or something. There ya go! David Cherryholmes P.E.T. Facility, Radiology Duke Clinic d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu

On Fri, 25 May 2001 11:31:19 -0400, David Cherryholmes <d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu> wrote: >Crypt: the twelve smallest guys with fortitude (got 'em all) > >Master: 7 Fortitudes (having FOR is important for this one) > 4 Tributes (see below) > 3 Effective Managements (staple weenie-deck master) I wouldn't worry too much about this. You'd much rather be chucking around Fortitude master cards, so go ahead and spend the pool and time to get your next minion the 'hard way'. >Library: (all numbers are approximate) > > 12 Rapid Healing > 8 Restoration Guys who are full sometimes have trouble going to torpor during a Trap. =) Maybe a few less? > 8 Undead Persistance > 8 Traps > 8 Force of Will > 6 Freak Drives > 6 Day Operations > 4 Dawn Operations > 4 Amaranth Your guys aren't THIS disposable. =/ >I'm sure you're familiar with the FoW schtick, so you know the challenge >is always how to "get sideways" without bleeding. I've done it a few >different ways in the past (rushes, equips, et al.). This time around, >I'm thinking do a few bleeds for one to either get into trapped combat to >get light enough to hunt or kill time until the Tribute shows up. Then >*wham*, nice pool gain and all your guys are hunt-legit. As an idle note, it is a legal action to hunt while full. The blood drains off immediately, so you gain nothing, but you may still hunt even if you are at full capacity. So it's not quite AS difficult to tap. =) Consider a copy of Cairo International Airport, Powerbase: Montreal, The Rack, Fragment of the Book of Nod, and any other "steal-me-please" Master cards. These make for more useful and productive tap actions, since if you have it, you get the benefit, and you can always 'waste' an action going to take it back. =) And Cairo can be a truly offensive thing if someone leaves blood on an uncontrolled minion - tap out taking Cairo actions, then everyone bleeds for 3 with Force of Will. >alternative. I suspect I need to have more, lots more, tributes in there, >but master space is tight. I'll probably cut down on the FOR skill cards >a wee bit, and throw in a couple Parthenons or something. Definitely a Parthenon (only one). Also consider four or five Rumors of Gehenna cards - sell the Master phase actions to the guys with the votes, and unless your predator has vote lock, you're golden. =) -- Derek [generic .signature file]

On Fri, 25 May 2001, Derek Ray wrote: > >Master: 7 Fortitudes (having FOR is important for this one) > > 4 Tributes (see below) > > 3 Effective Managements (staple weenie-deck master) > > I wouldn't worry too much about this. You'd much rather be chucking > around Fortitude master cards, so go ahead and spend the pool and time > to get your next minion the 'hard way'. Probably right; think I'll go with that. > > 4 Amaranth > > Your guys aren't THIS disposable. =/ YMMV. I kept the number of Amaranth's low. I'll trade a two-among-many against a six-among-few any day. Would probably make more sense with some light rush included, though, just to reduce the likelyhood of hanging on to one waiting for the right guy to block. > As an idle note, it is a legal action to hunt while full. The blood > drains off immediately, so you gain nothing, but you may still hunt > even if you are at full capacity. So it's not quite AS difficult to > tap. =) Had no friggin' idea. Man, that would chave changed a lot of games with my old-style Fame-FoW-watch me shoot myself-deck. > Consider a copy of Cairo International Airport, Powerbase: Montreal, > The Rack, Fragment of the Book of Nod, and any other "steal-me-please" > Master cards. These make for more useful and productive tap actions, > since if you have it, you get the benefit, and you can always 'waste' > an action going to take it back. =) And Cairo can be a truly > offensive thing if someone leaves blood on an uncontrolled minion - > tap out taking Cairo actions, then everyone bleeds for 3 with Force of > Will. Cairo has been a staple in previous incarnations of the weenie thwart-em-atude deck. Love the card, just felt tight on masters. The thing I like best about cairo+weenies is that it renders highly unlikely they'll be getting out any minions of cap >4 (barring Info Highway and such). If they aren't playing weenies too you've likely yanked their legs our from underneath them. I assume you've done the weenie-banishment-cairo combo before? > > Definitely a Parthenon (only one). Also consider four or five Rumors > of Gehenna cards - sell the Master phase actions to the guys with the > votes, and unless your predator has vote lock, you're golden. =) You think rumors is that good for this deck? FOR is good, but I can live without it for a little while and the deck should cycle pretty well to get at them. Thanks for the tips. David Cherryholmes

>===== Original Message From David Cherryholmes <d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu> ===== >On Fri, 25 May 2001, Derek Ray wrote: >> As an idle note, it is a legal action to hunt while full. The blood >> drains off immediately, so you gain nothing, but you may still hunt >> even if you are at full capacity. So it's not quite AS difficult to >> tap. =) > >Had no friggin' idea. Man, that would chave changed a lot of games with >my old-style Fame-FoW-watch me shoot myself-deck. Don't beat yourself up too much over that - the revised rulebook (which allowed hunt-at-capacity) replaced the 1995 V:TES Starter rulebook rules (which disallowed it) about two months after the change to Fame was made (in July 1998). And before the 1995 V:TES Starter rulebook rules disallowed hunting at capacity, FoW was not available. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ ------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE web-based e-mail and newsgroup access at: http://MailAndNews.com

Ran the deck last night. It had evolved away from weenies; once I put the crack pipe down I realized they just didn't have the capacity to support the combo. Nudged the crypt up to 6 or so choice vampires of cap 3-5 (the 5's were Camille -- don't own a Raven). Also ditched Undead Persistance and Trap and went with more of the combo-cards and added some regular old stealth. Since the crypt was now mostly Gangrel, in go the Garou's (4! ...rush is this deck's answer to intercept, and it bloats well enough to pay) and all the juicy Gangrel location Masters. Turn one Rikki got out, turn two did the Fow-watch me get out of torpor schtick. Everyone said "cute" and snickered at how little blood was left after my bleed for 2. Then, after I had four blood dolls out and Eco Terrorists, and *3* Garou, and was bleeding for 3 multiple times, mostly unblockable, it wasn't so "cute" anymore. Which is a long-winded way of saying "it worked." However, most of these guys didn't start playing until after the change to Fame and hadn't seen FoW-MotSB-RH-FD. Any deck's chances to rock go way up if no-one thinks you're a threat. Realizing this is old hat for most of us, but, hey, might be news to somebody. David Cherryholmes P.E.T. Facility, Radiology Duke Clinic d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu [ quoted text not captured ]

Andrew S. Davidson <a...@csi.com> wrote: >The basic problem is that the game's mechanics are stacked so firmly >against the older vampires. What's the point of buying a 10-cap with >6 different disciplines when you can't feasibly use more than a couple >of them? They have titles but it's trivial for the weenie to acquire >those too. Hey... >deep breath< I agree with Andrew S. Davidson... This is the grounds for which I never really had so much of a problem with Tomb of Ramses before the new text. Mind you, it still does what it was supposed to do, bring up larger vamps quickly, but I see the drawback to 8+ capacity vamps as fully justifying its old text, along with the fact that newer large caps (Sabbat era forward) tend to have better discipline sets and more powerful specials. This goes a ways towards making them stronger, but balanced against the simple equation that smaller minions give you more actions per turn? Not yet. That's the real driving force behind MT/5th decks. #1) When pulled off, you get back your investment in the large vamp. #2) if said vamp gets stomped, you can get more. The risk factor with large vamps will always be higher, and the difficulty in getting actions that justify their cost is difficult, especially when actions that have significant game impact are often discipline based, rather than capacity based... >We were playing Shadowfist at the club last night - now that's a game >in which mooks are cannon-fodder and royalty kicks butt. ... Not that you're ooohhh_biased_ or anything ;-) In truth, SF is a fun game, but has a thematic background that draws even less potential players than VTES... Good luck to Z-Man keeping it going. Regards, R. David Zopf guenh...@mindspring.com Atom Weaver

> I tried a weenie fortitude bomb deck once, it probably would work for > superior fortitude, but I could only drop 5-7 points of damage > prevention once or twice before handjamming on other useful things > (like bombs). It did carry a decent intimidation factor, though. Indeed. My first version of my weenie bomb deck used Fortitude. However, it needed *alot* of 'Skin of Rock' to stay out of Torpor. After a while, you just couldn't save the vamps. However, I redid that deck after thinking about it on the trip home from the SE Qualifier in Atlanta (especially seeing how well my Weenie deck did there using Flesh of Marble <Hi Derek! :p>) and and forgone Fortitude for Protean. Flesh of Marble is *awesome* when it comes to that much damage. The average cost of the crypt went up a bit to compensate, but all in all I think the deck works so much better. You can see both versions of my bomb deck here: http://www.melancholy.org/vtes/regions/united_states/louisiana/domain-no/dec ks/listings/deck_list.php3?archive=christoph Sorrow --- I don't want to be alone | I hurt, therefore I am anymore |-------------------------------- I don't want to be anyone | "What are you looking at...? anymore | you never seen anyone try to I don't need a reason to kill myself | commit suicide before?" - Anon ------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 27 May 2001 21:14:22 GMT, R. David Zopf wrote: >>We were playing Shadowfist at the club last night - now that's a game >>in which mooks are cannon-fodder and royalty kicks butt. > >... Not that you're ooohhh_biased_ or anything ;-) In truth, SF is a >fun game, but has a thematic background that draws even less potential >players than VTES... Good luck to Z-Man keeping it going. Shadowfist's theme is the most protean of any of the CCG. The time war backstory is a good excuse to mix and match any of the action movie tropes. All it's really missing is space opera but it would be easy to add a Stargate element if one wanted. The HK movie style is now mainstream - movies and shows like Crouching Tiger, The Matrix and Dark Angel are big and successful. Buffy has done great by taking the lighter elements of this style and mixing them with the tropes of the vampire movie, just as Xena did with classical myth. Their camp humour and martial arts are very Shadowfist in tone. VTES and WoD are stuck in the rut of paranoid, millenial angst which seems passé now. The shows and movies which typify this don't work so well, if they ever did - X-Files, Millenium, Forever Knight, Hannibal, Kindred, Nosferatu. Of course, the taste of the public can be quite mysterious. I continue to be amazed at the success of 7th Sea when the last good pirate movie was Muppet Treasure Island. Is today's youth still exposed to swashbuckling stuff like Captain Blood and the Crimson Pirate? Andrew

On 25 May 2001 06:24:16 -0700, Dave wrote: >> Meanwhile, in the computer game, Christof has just reached London >> where he is having to slaughter his way through the Society of >> Leopold. They deserve it for those awful fake Cockney accents but >> you'd expect the occasional pang of remorse from our noble hero in >> this case. Not a bit of it - his humanity score is as high as ever. >> He's newly embraced, you see and that makes him another uber-weenie. > >Just wait 'till you get to the Setite temple - conclusive proof that >rush beats weenie corruption every time! I'm not sure what you mean by that. I found that the Setites were a walkover - they obviously hadn't got their Final Nights cards yet. Have taken ship to NYC where the Sabbat Nosferatu seem more of a challenge. But we're rather puzzled by Club Torrie which seems to have closed its doors. Doesn't Manhattan have some night life? I'm getting tired of going to the New Moon instead where the jewish proprietress keeps hitting on Christof. Looking forward to the next session as I've been reading the manual on assault rifles and see now why they might be more useful than shotguns - area fire sounds good. But Christof has another new toy - he's just splurged on a rocket launcher and can't wait to try it out on an ghouled alligator... Andrew

> Of course, the taste of the public can be quite mysterious. I > continue to be amazed at the success of 7th Sea when the last good > pirate movie was Muppet Treasure Island. Is today's youth still > exposed to swashbuckling stuff like Captain Blood and the Crimson > Pirate? > > Andrew I asure you. 7th Seas is one of the best systems I've ever played. It serves perfectly to what it has been designed to. Easy to play, relying mostly on Roleplaying (rules are the less important if your description fits)... Well, i must confess that i'm 26 and ave been playing for 14 years, but in our RPG Club it hit hard, and there are members from 14 to 40... Anyway, the movie guionist recycle through themes: Look at the Sci-fi/Fantasy/Adventure genres. There hasn't been a good set of movies since the 70's, and this year we'll have a bunch of them at theaters- Planet of the Apes, LOTR, Tomb Raider, Return of the Mummy, Harry Potter, Final Fantasy,... Sure most of them won't be as good as Indiana Jones or StarWars, but it has been a long time without movies of that kind. Tom Mad &Co

In message <664E8E26948481B1.C04E9E99...@lp.airnews.net>, Andrew S. Davidson <a...@csi.com> writes >Shadowfist's theme is the most protean of any of the CCG. Which is a blessing and a curse. You can try and convince someone to play the bits that appeal to them, but the other bits just feel "out of place" because it's so alien. Whereas in, say, Vampire, everything attempts[0] to stay in a certain theme, so everything feels kind of coherent. The same applies to lots of other games, each taking a specific genre (roughly) and working with it. Shadowfist has lots of elements which "grate" if you don't like that specific theme. (e.g. if you don't like cyborgs) [0] Of course, things fuck up sometimes. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D "You reinstall Dial-Up Networking. The Elf screams and becomes EBD690ECD7A1F an icon. *** CONGRATULATIONS! *** You completed the BT Internet B457CA213D7E6 Helpdesk training course in 15 out of a possible 9000 moves." 68C3695D623D5D

guenh...@mindspring.com (R. David Zopf) wrote in message news:<9err05$4e0$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>... > Andrew S. Davidson <a...@csi.com> wrote: > > >The basic problem is that the game's mechanics are stacked so firmly > >against the older vampires. What's the point of buying a 10-cap with > >6 different disciplines when you can't feasibly use more than a couple > >of them? They have titles but it's trivial for the weenie to acquire > >those too. SNIP > discipline sets and more powerful specials. This goes a ways towards > making them stronger, but balanced against the simple equation that > smaller minions give you more actions per turn? Not yet. That's the SNIP that's why i like cards such as kiss of ra and speed of thought. the more cards that rely on _other_ minions having or not having certain disciplines, the more "utility" those larger vampires, with disciplines all over the place, have. i do so hope that more cards like that are made.... also, a friend of mine asserted that those weird AH cards that weren't discipline based but had "superior ability" text were intended for the superior version to be for vampires with a certain capacity (6 or more, i think...). that is a kind of good way to encourage larger vampires, too. salem.