"Weenie" Bleed Deck

Hi all. Posting a sample deck, in search of feedback and comments. Sometimes I feel there are too many rules questions and not enough strategy discussions on this group. I'm doing my part to remedy this situation. Super-defense deck posting coming when I polish it... Judy ________________________________________________________________________ This isn't a true "weenie" deck, as it does have a lot of 5 capacity vampires and one 6 capacity vampire in it. I'm still experimenting - I'm not quite sure that Lydia Van Cuelen belongs. There also might me too many stealth cards. A friend playing this deck the other day got a very bad shuffle and a serious hand jam with stealth cards because his prey had no intercept. This deck dies hard when it's prey is another S&B deck - it has nothing but permanent intercept and too little of that. Its best bet is to keep ousting people for the 6 pool. Political decks are also somewhat frustrating, but only one person in my playgroup can pull off an effective political deck with any regularity, so in general it's not a problem. If the presence vamps don't come out fast (Majesty), a combat deck starts wasting the little buggers, too. To counter the political and combat decks, a few heavy, directed, cross-table bleeds usually cripple enough to get them off my back for a bit. It's slightly master-heavy -- that can be a problem. I sometimes discard skill cards if I see no need for them. The Rumors of Gehenna helps, and is usually passable, as long as you call it on everyone. The 100 card size is never a problem. We usually don't bother playing unless we can get 5 or 6 people. In general, as long as the deck is not obscenely large, we don't care. CRYPT: (14) Didi Meyers x 2 Zebulon Roland Bishop Normal Dimple Grendel - The Worm Eaten Agrippina x 2 Lydia Van Cuelen Ramiel Dupre Gideon Fontaine Violette Prentiss Courtland Leighton MASTERS: (30) Presence x 4 Dominate x 4 Obfuscate x 3 Blood Doll x 4 KRCG News Radio x 2 Elysium Slum Hunting Ground x 2 Uptown Hunding Ground Asylum Hunting Ground x 2 The Labyrinth Police Department Information Highway Short Term Investment Effective Management x 2 OBFUSCATE CARDS: (22) Mask of 1000 Faces x 4 Cloak the Gathering x 8 Lost in Crowds x 5 Faceless Night x 6 DOMINATE CARDS: (21) Bonding x 6 Threats x 2 Govern the Unaligned x 4 Conditioning x 4 Deflection x 4 Kine Dominance PRESENCE CARDS: (16) Legal Manipulations x 4 Social Charm x 3 Enchant Kindred x 3 Majesty x 6 MISCELLANEOUS: (11) Wake with Evening's Freshness x 4 Sport Bike x 2 Laptop Computer x 2 Tasha Morgan J.S. Simmons, Esq. Rumors of Gehenna Total cards: 100 -- "As you know, I am a Jew, so I am going back to my vault where I control the media." -- Jon Lovitz, 1995 MTV Movie Awards *** jcoo...@eng.umd.edu * http://www.wam.umd.edu/~jcookson ***

Well you asked for feed back,here goes I thought your vote deck wasn't really a vote deck, I'll post mine and you can compare notes it is an 80 card deck because their usally only 4 of us. Vampires Sir Walter Nash x 5 Grendal x 5 Smudge x 2 Library Freak drive x 6 Majesty x 6 KRC x 4 Conservative Agitation x 4 Domain Challenge x 4 consanguineous Condemnation x 4 Ancilla Empowerment x 4 Parity Shift x 4 Bonding x 5 Lost in Crowds x 4 Restoration x 4 The Fifth Tradition x 5 Sudden Reversal x 4 Wake's x 4 Elysium Abt. x 2 44 Mag x 2 Computer Hacking x 4 Govern the Unaligned x 4 deflection x 6 This is not a table clearer by any stretch of the imagination but I have won about 50% of the games with this deck I find it is more of a game Ender for the 3 other people at the table and 4 out of 5 times the person left standing is the one that was neither prey/nor predator. Grendal usally does the vote stealthing and and the .44 is for grendals protection also.Sir walter nash usally fairs pretty well on his own, to give more of an Idea about this deck it has gone up against Tremere and Brujah combat (Rush), Gangrel combat,Nos combat,And a 4CL S+B deck Obviously the only one it really didn't give compition to was the malk for obvious reasons. Errol

>Ummm, that's because it was a bleed deck. Or weren't you paying attention >to the total lack of vote cards and the multitudes of presence/dominate >bleeds and bleed mods? > oops sorry must have not been paying very good attention, Sorry! >>Vampires >> >>Sir Walter Nash x 5 >>Grendal x 5 > >Why not Agrippina, who is another Nosferatu with superior Obfuscate? Why >not Zebulon, who has dominate, and can Seduce and play bleed mods. > yah you can use Agrippina or just about any other Vamp with Sup,Obfuscate , Zebulon no because it's a vote deck not a bleed deck I would rather commit my Library cards to vote cards instead of bleed. >>Smudge x 2 > >OK.... > >I thought you liked the 2 card limit. Have you finally agreed with all of >us that card limits are crippling? I do play 2 card limit, I play no Limit, And I play 4cl, the only one I don't like is 4cl for reasons everyone is aware of,unfortunatly most people I game with play this way. I don't limit myself to one style of playing or thinking. But I see that you have moved to an >almost 4-card limit. You might not have to put things like the >Consanguinous Condemnation if you put more KRCs and Conservative >Agitations in. How about a couple Sabbat Threats? Why not Fifth >Tradition (or has that been errated that you cannot perform it on yourself?). I like a little variety with the vote deck the cards do very similar things, tapping someones vamps then doing that amount of dmg(DC),its just different thats all, although this deck is pretty close to 4cl you can remove certain cards and increase the others, I do.The fifth tradition should be in this deck I have it in this deck,(it was an oversight). Errol

In article <mskelton-191...@da385.students.hamilton.edu>, mike skelton <mske...@hamilton.edu> wrote: > Everyone's decks looked interesting, and it would be fun to try to test >your strategies(consideing that if someone were to wait and intercept all >your actions, using a Tremere or Brujah deck, I think you would be in >trouble). The only question I have is this: What are your respective card >limits? I saw severak decks which contained SIX copies of certain >cards(ie, 6 Majesty, 6 deflection). Is that legal? I mean, sure, everyone >makes their own house rules, but I thought the tournament ruling was that >only 5 copies of a card are allowed(we go with a 4 card limit in my 4-card limit was artificially brought over from Magic. There are restrictions on certain cards (like Majesty) in the tournament rules, but I don't know anyone who thinks the tournament rules were well thought out. According to Jyhad rules, there are *no* card limits. I have had decks with 8-10 copies of a single card. >group). Also, what's the deal with Unique cards, like KRCG, and Hunting >Grounds? I figured that since they are Unique cards, you would only be >allowed one in your deck. If not, that would be alloting a HUGE advantage >to players who spend their every last dime on cards, and naturally have >more rare Unique cards. You can put as many unique locations in your deck as you want, but only one can be in play at a time. Putting more than one of a unique location in your deck gives more of a chance of getting it out. Sometimes I do this if I have a particularly large deck. Also, many useful unique locations are not rare. The only rare ones I use with regularity are Eco Terrorists, Art Museum, and Arcane Library (notice a trend?). I believe the rares in my "Weenie" bleed deck are: Monocle of Clarity ("do you have an Archon Invstiagtion"), J.S. Simmons, Kine Dominance, Tasha Morgan, and Rumors of Gehenna. Judy [ quoted text not captured ]

First 4CL sucks, secondly the reason for putting multiple copies of unique cards is because permanent cards of ther nature are subject to being taken out.(Sudden Reversal). Errol

In article <48jceq$5...@bert.compusmart.ab.ca>, Errol T <etre...@compusmart.ab.c a> wrote: > Well you asked for feed back,here goes I thought your vote deck wasn't > really a vote deck, I'll post mine and you can compare notes it is an 80 > card deck because their usally only 4 of us. > > Vampires > > Sir Walter Nash x 5 > Grendal x 5 > Smudge x 2 Maybe I missed something here Errol, but why would you want to duplicate your own vampires? Ever heard of contesting your own cards? or is that something they canned in the last two months since I haven't been around? just wondering.... greg zuvich -- 邢 唷��

In article <mskelton-191...@da385.students.hamilton.edu>, mike skelton <mske...@hamilton.edu> wrote: > Everyone's decks looked interesting, and it would be fun to try to test >your strategies(consideing that if someone were to wait and intercept all >your actions, using a Tremere or Brujah deck, I think you would be in >trouble). The only question I have is this: What are your respective card >limits? I saw severak decks which contained SIX copies of certain >cards(ie, 6 Majesty, 6 deflection). Is that legal? I mean, sure, everyone Very legal. Desired, even. Only one tourney (a non-sanctioned one, despite its own claim to the contrary) has imposed a per-card limit on Jyhad decks - and that limit was an afterthought - after the vote-pushing KRC weenie deck won a different major tournament. The four card limit was a knee-jerk response to eliminate the KRC deck. Hopefully, no future tournaments will make that mistake. Current tourney rules have strangulating limits on "offensive" PAs - PAs that (on a successful vote) typically cost non-acting Methuslehas to lose more pool than acting-Methuselahs. >makes their own house rules, but I thought the tournament ruling was that >only 5 copies of a card are allowed(we go with a 4 card limit in my >group). Also, what's the deal with Unique cards, like KRCG, and Hunting >Grounds? I figured that since they are Unique cards, you would only be >allowed one in your deck. If not, that would be alloting a HUGE advantage >to players who spend their every last dime on cards, and naturally have >more rare Unique cards. Unique cards are self-limiting - you may put as many into a deck as you can afford to waste card slots. -- ----- L. Scott Johnson (lsc...@crl.com) | The opinions expressed are mine Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger | and subject to card text

In article <48okmj$2...@bert.compusmart.ab.ca>, Errol T <etre...@compusmart.ab.ca> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] In my opinion, "4CL" does not suck, and is an interesting as well as challenging way to build a deck. Obviously, it is more difficult to construct a competitive deck with the limit, but I think by placing such a limit on decks, it forces Methuselahs to consider their strategy within the constraints of limited resources. Of course, not everybody is going to enjoy this variation, because it doesn't allow you to become dependant on hording certain cards into a deck(you could do alot of damage with 8 Wolf Claws in your deck). All I'm saying is that I find "4CL" a fun way to play. Excuse me if it doesn't please you. By the way, I understand the game reasoning behind putting several uniques in your deck. I just don't think it makes sense from a logical viewpoint. Undoubtedly, there can be only one KRCG news radio station, and but one local hang out known as "The Rack". Thus, the titke Unique. MS

>Maybe I missed something here Errol, but why would you want to duplicate your >own vampires? Ever heard of contesting your own cards? or is that something >they canned in the last two months since I haven't been around? > >just wondering.... > >greg zuvich Well Greg the object of the amount of Vampires is not to contest them but to make sure I get out Sir Walter Nash and the other Vamps I put in. If you noticed the other cards in the deck they correspond with there particular skills Sup\Reg. Errol

> > In my opinion, "4CL" does not suck, and is an interesting as well as >challenging way to build a deck. Obviously, it is more difficult to >construct a competitive deck with the limit, but I think by placing such a >limit on decks, it forces Methuselahs to consider their strategy within >the constraints of limited resources. Of course, not everybody is going to >enjoy this variation, because it doesn't allow you to become dependant on >hording certain cards into a deck(you could do alot of damage with 8 Wolf Try 2 card limit then I play this way too.2CL is for smaller groups basically no larger than 3. And if you can not see the logic behind why 4Cl is not all that strategic then you never will. >Claws in your deck). All I'm saying is that I find "4CL" a fun way to >play. Excuse me if it doesn't please you. By the way, I understand the >game reasoning behind putting several uniques in your deck. I just don't >think it makes sense from a logical viewpoint. Undoubtedly, there can be >only one KRCG news radio station, and but one local hang out known as "The >Rack" If you can't see the logic behind putting valuable Unique permanents in a deck then I would love to be playing you for ante cards, you would have nothing left. Errol

dsa...@prism.gatech.edu (Stuart J. Pieloch) wrote: >Errol T <etre...@compusmart.ab.ca> writes: >Thanks for posting the deck design. It seems pretty good, however here are >some points. > >>Vampires >>Sir Walter Nash x 5 >>Grendal x 5 >>Smudge x 2 >You will have a definate problem if either of your vamps gets to torpor. >The will sit there and contest the vamp that you bring out to replace >it for a full turn. that sucks. Wrong I've been sent numerous times to topor with this deck and had no problem getting out, and I've never in history had to Contest my own vampires. >>Parity Shift x 4 >Do you often find that you are possessing less pool than someone at the table? >I wouldn't plan on using these in general Yes Because some Vote decks tend to be alittle slow I throw these in just to even things up.(I usally hit the bleed decks) >How do you play 5th (on self?) Yes, although I know there is some dispute about this. Errol

In article <48otgj$1...@harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au>, jac...@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Mr JA Chapman) wrote: > > A whole 6 cards.... Well my group usually plays with a 4-5 card limit > but theres plenty of people who play with no limit . (Hey was that the 59th or > 60th KRC in your deck.....) . Limits stop a few degenerate decks (not the KRC > though) but are fairly harsh on some other , reasonable ones . Out of curiosity, what do you think about KRC decks in a without limits/one vote push environment? "I can send and receive e-mail even over the internet"-aol commercial @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$ # Adrian Sullivan "<insert favorite quote here>" # $ sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu -<insert name of those quoted here> @ @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$ GAT/CS/O/WS d-(---) h++ s: a--- C(+++)$ UX+>+++$ P+ L E- W+>++ N++(+) o?> K+>++++ w--->? O? M++ V-->? PS+(-+) PE&++&- Y+>++ PGP(--) t 5->? X++&-- R+++&* tv&--- b++(+++)&+ DI D(+)&--- G+>+++ e+*>++++ h(+) r(+) y*+? /* Version 3.1 */ @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$ @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$ Spoutingly yours 8^)

In article <mskelton-201...@da385.students.hamilton.edu>, mske...@hamilton.edu (mike skelton) wrote: > In article <48okmj$2...@bert.compusmart.ab.ca>, Errol T > <etre...@compusmart.ab.ca> wrote: > > > First 4CL sucks, secondly the reason for putting multiple copies of > > unique cards is because permanent cards of ther nature are subject to > > being taken out.(Sudden Reversal). (Sorry, I lost the original article where this was posted.) Errol, how does one Sudden Reversal a card already in play? SR only kills Master cards as they are put into play, not ones already in play. > In my opinion, "4CL" does not suck, and is an interesting as well as > challenging way to build a deck. Obviously, it is more difficult to > construct a competitive deck with the limit, but I think by placing such a > limit on decks, it forces Methuselahs to consider their strategy within > the constraints of limited resources. It seems your arguements are that 1) 4CL is fun 2) It makes deck construction more interesting. Have you had people play tough Malk decks in your group? The only way to deal with them under 4CL is to table attack the Malk deck every game they come out, or buy tons of rares. See <http://www.engr.trinity.edu/~mlangsdo/RPGs/Jyhad/index.html> for a bunch of well written responses to 4CL. > Of course, not everybody is going to > enjoy this variation, because it doesn't allow you to become dependant on > hording certain cards into a deck(you could do alot of damage with 8 Wolf > Claws in your deck). Claws of the Dead/Wolf Claws are effectively the same (Manuever or Press can be done by other cards). Under 4CL there are effectively 8 Wolf Claws. > All I'm saying is that I find "4CL" a fun way to > play. Excuse me if it doesn't please you. I hope you enjoy the way you play. I don't think that anyone here is saying that you _MUST_ play non-4CL, but that 4CL is not as fun or good. Everyone is always free to play however they want. >By the way, I understand the > game reasoning behind putting several uniques in your deck. I just don't > think it makes sense from a logical viewpoint. Undoubtedly, there can be > only one KRCG news radio station, and but one local hang out known as "The > Rack". Thus, the titke Unique. > I think that the rational of a Master Card is that the methuselah is attempting to put its influence on a location. If more cards are put into your deck, that means that hte methuselah is attempting to influence it more under that strategy of deck. Thus, it is more likely to come out more, and once it is under control, trying to influence it more won't matter. It is under control. If it is destroyed in an arson, the more influence will cause it to be rebuilt more quickly. Any other opinions? [ quoted text not captured ]

Judith Cookson Grunberger (jcoo...@Glue.umd.edu) wrote: : Also, many useful unique locations are not rare. The only rare ones I use : with regularity are Eco Terrorists, Art Museum, and Arcane Library (notice : a trend?). Just wondering--I use Art Museum in my Toreador/Brujah deck--do you use those to get vampires out quicker, or to gain back a blood every turn [you know, tap, put a blood on the uncontrolled vamp, then use 2 transfers to take it to your pool], or do you do it depending on the situation? : I believe the rares in my "Weenie" bleed deck are: Monocle of Clarity : ("do you have an Archon Invstiagtion"), J.S. Simmons, Kine Dominance, Tasha : Morgan, and Rumors of Gehenna. Just what does Archon Investigation do? I've heard of the new cards in VTES, but apart from Protected Resources, I can't find a list of what they do... -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | "What is a man without the beasts? If the beasts were gone, | | man would die from a great loneliness of spirit." | | "Confuse, annoy, and dee-STROY!!" Call me "Nicole" and I | | npu...@tiger.lsu.edu -- Jet...@aol.com will have to kill you. | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

npu...@tiger.lsu.edu (Nicole Janine Purvis) writes: > Just wondering--I use Art Museum in my Toreador/Brujah deck--do you use >those to get vampires out quicker, or to gain back a blood every turn >[you know, tap, put a blood on the uncontrolled vamp, then use 2 >transfers to take it to your pool], or do you do it depending on the >situation? In the beginning I use it to bring out new ones Especially if I don't have an info Highway but then near the end I usually need the pool more than another vamp These are most useful when playing with 5 blood vamps > Just what does Archon Investigation do? I've heard of the new cards in >VTES, but apart from Protected Resources, I can't find a list of what >they do... AI Master Out of Turn Play when you are being bled for more than three pool, this action is not considered successful. Burn thwe acting vampire. This is not Diablory. Costs 3 pool Note: I haven't ever seen one though. Hope this helps though Stuart -- "Lennier, for the first time I feel very much...alone." 'No, never alone, Delenn. Never alone.' -- Delenn and Lennier, "All Alone in the Night"

In article <49kjul$q...@acmey.gatech.edu>, dsa...@prism.gatech.edu (Stuart J. Pieloch) writes: >> Just wondering--I use Art Museum in my Toreador/Brujah deck--do you use >>those to get vampires out quicker, or to gain back a blood every turn >>[you know, tap, put a blood on the uncontrolled vamp, then use 2 >>transfers to take it to your pool], or do you do it depending on the >>situation? > >In the beginning I use it to bring out new ones >Especially if I don't have an info Highway >but then near the end I usually need the pool more than another vamp > >These are most useful when playing with 5 blood vamps That is the way I use it as well, vamps in the beginning and gaining blood later in the game (your own version of the edge for 2 transfers.). Not only does it work well for 5 capacity but also 9 and 10 (you can get them out in only 2 turns). It's also nice to have a use for those transfers later in the game. In my Gangrel/Toreador deck I get both the Museum and the Terrorists. :-) ~Biomechanoid