Kindred segregation and bloodcosting allies

Our judge made a ruling in my favor yesterday that shouldn't have been made after my playing a kindred segregation. He ruled that the cost of shambling hordes should be payed in blood. It seems with the ruling/clarification i quoted below that they were free to keep (or am i misunderstanding this?). I would like to know why this ruling/clarification exists. The reasoning was: 1) A *methuselah* can choose to repay the cost or burn the ally. 2) A methuselah does not have blood 3) so it is free I can completely follow step one and two, but with step 3 i have some trouble. I would say, since you cannot repay the cost (would be same as not having enough pool, since you have 0 blood) the shamblings are burned. You cannot repay => the ally is burned. In my opinion it makes sense (but who am i :-) ) , but not only does it make sense to me, it could also make the kindred segragation somewhat playable in tournaments again. There are very often going to be Shambling/WarGhoul decks at a tournament, if kindred segregation works against both those decks, it might be worth including. W PS. Ruling i found: Halcyan 2 wrote: > > >If it cost 4 blood, then you get 4 pool. > >If it cost X blood, then you get X pool. > >If it cost X pool, then you get X pool. > > > >The ruling allows blood costs (not just pool costs) to be considered for X > >on card text. > > Then for the sake of consistency, shouldn't Kindred Segregation cause > controllers of Couriers or Shambling Hordes to pay the cost (in something)? It > seems a little contradictory for Khobar Towers to allow one to gain the cost of > an ally (who costs blood) but Kindred Segregation doesn't have one pay the cost > of any ally (who costs blood)... No. Methuselahs don't have blood. Kindred Segregation requires the *Methuselah* to repay the cost. Kobar Towers gives the Methuselah X pool. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Wouter Kuyper wrote: > Our judge made a ruling in my favor yesterday that shouldn't have been > made after my playing a kindred segregation. He ruled that the cost of > shambling hordes should be payed in blood. It seems with the > ruling/clarification i quoted below that they were free to keep (or am > i misunderstanding this?). > > I would like to know why this ruling/clarification exists. > > The reasoning was: > > 1) A *methuselah* can choose to repay the cost or burn the ally. > 2) A methuselah does not have blood > 3) so it is free Current card text (which came after the ruling you cited): Successful referendum means that all allies are burned. Any Methuselah can keep an ally or allies he or she controls by repaying their pool cost to recruit. The Shambling Hordes' pool cost is zero. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<40432190...@white-wolf.com>... > Wouter Kuyper wrote: > > Our judge made a ruling in my favor yesterday that shouldn't have been > > made after my playing a kindred segregation. He ruled that the cost of > > shambling hordes should be payed in blood. It seems with the > > ruling/clarification i quoted below that they were free to keep (or am > > i misunderstanding this?). > > > > I would like to know why this ruling/clarification exists. > > > > The reasoning was: > > > > 1) A *methuselah* can choose to repay the cost or burn the ally. > > 2) A methuselah does not have blood > > 3) so it is free > > Current card text (which came after the ruling you cited): > Successful referendum means that all allies are burned. Any Methuselah can > keep an ally or allies he or she controls by repaying their pool cost to > recruit. > > The Shambling Hordes' pool cost is zero. Ok, should have checked better, sorry. That makes the logic solid to me. I still find it a pitty that it doesn't help against shamblings... Can i ask why you chose this solution instead of the other? W

> That makes the logic solid to me. I still find it a pitty that it > doesn't help against shamblings... Why? I dont think they need to be hosed by Kindred Segregation.

>> That makes the logic solid to me. I still find it a pitty that it >> doesn't help against shamblings... > >Why? I dont think they need to be hosed by Kindred Segregation. That massive hosing that occurs when minions you wanted burnt eventually anyway get burnt once in a game? Kindred Segregation has so little use right now. Garou don't seem popular enough to justify its inclusion. Only in the heavy War Ghoul environments might it make sense; not exactly a ton of those and lots of vote decks can just Far Mastery or Entrancement away WGs. Nevertheless, I don't see it being changed; it's not like the concept is all that good in the first place.

Wouter...@yahoo.com (Wouter Kuyper) wrote: > Can i ask why you chose this solution instead of the other? Designer intent (as near as can be intuited without access to the designer's thoughts). [ quoted text not captured ]

Kit...@Tjohoo.se (Kitzune) wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] It seems to me that Wouter is lamenting having his vampires pummelled by Shambling Hordes, not suggesting that Kindred Segregation is underpowered. Rob Grau

rfg...@eos.ncsu.edu (Rob Grau) wrote in message news:<92a6fbf1.04030...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] Not really, i still won that game, because i had a domain challenge in my hand for a long time, waiting for him to be my prey (and/or predator), he only had one turn of kicking my vamps, which i survived ok. I am suggesting it, because i think KS is underpowered, or at least too cornercase. Having it help against Shamblings gives it somewhat more power against decks that can win a tournament. (and it is boring to just play KRC's in your votedeck) Too bad it was designer intent. :-( W

I said so But I paid one shambling, because the judge disagreed with me. Any way I was a fun, frustrating and long game. But next time... wouter, next time..... ***Inspector Gadget ending*** you always seem to get a way with all the vps when Im around. grrrr Oortje my tournament deck here http://www.vtesholland.com/content/category/5/28/34/ Hordes of skull old page. still fun tough http://www.oortje.bravehost.com/vampire.htm