Muse of Flame clarification

I've been running under the assumption that Muse of Flame only chooses from among the ready minion monsters that my prey controls, rather than allowing my minion to enter combat with torpored vampires or monstrous retainers (or allowing my action to just randomly fail if such a target is selected). Is this correct? What's the real deal? Witness1 -ItE

witness1 wrote: > I've been running under the assumption that Muse of Flame only chooses > from among the ready minion monsters that my prey controls, rather than > allowing my minion to enter combat with torpored vampires or monstrous > retainers (or allowing my action to just randomly fail if such a target > is selected). Is this correct? Yes.

[ quoted text not captured ] > Yes. Sorry for beeing sarcastic, but another example of "clear designer's intent", but poor card text wording? (like Abjure, Vigilance, Smite, Cleave - imho a bit too many for such a small expansion.) dvorax.

[ quoted text not captured ] Huh whats the poor wording in Abjure, Vigilance, Smite, or Cleave?

[ quoted text not captured ] There's no 'poor card text wording' on Muse of Flame. The original question asked was a fairly needless one, given that, by rule, "only ready minions can participate in combat" (6.4 of the rulebook.) Since the rulebook prohibits both retainers and torpored vampires from being in combat, there's no need for extraneous text on Muse of Flame prohibiting them from being considered a second time. > dvorax. -John Flournoy

Klai...@gmail.com wrote: > dvorax wrote: > > > Sorry for beeing sarcastic, but another example of "clear designer's > > intent", but poor card text wording? (like Abjure, Vigilance, Smite, > > Cleave - imho a bit too many for such a small expansion.) > > > > dvorax. > > Huh whats the poor wording in Abjure, Vigilance, Smite, or Cleave? I'm with Klaital here - I don't see any significant 'poor wording' on the cards you mention. Care to clarify? -John Flournoy

[ quoted text not captured ] Muse of Flame [NoR:C] Cardtype: Action Virtue: Vengeance +2 stealth action. (D) If this action is successful, choose a monster controlled by your prey at random. This imbued enters combat with the chosen monster. It's certainly reasonable to interpret this card text as "choose a monster controlled by your prey at random [that could legally enter combat with this minion]." But it doesn't actually say that. How is a player to know that this is the correct interpretation? Clarification is in order. Is the random selection of the target only supposed to come from legal targets of the (D) action to enter combat? No, given it's interaction with Secure Haven. So why does it not choose from among other illegal targets? Because of a clarification. Witness1 -ItE

witness1 wrote: > > Muse of Flame [NoR:C] > Cardtype: Action > Virtue: Vengeance > +2 stealth action. > (D) If this action is successful, choose a monster controlled by your > prey at random. This imbued enters combat with the chosen monster. > > It's certainly reasonable to interpret this card text as "choose a > monster controlled by your prey at random [that could legally enter > combat with this minion]." But it doesn't actually say that. How is a > player to know that this is the correct interpretation? Clarification > is in order. > > Is the random selection of the target only supposed to come from legal > targets of the (D) action to enter combat? No, given it's interaction > with Secure Haven. So why does it not choose from among other illegal > targets? Because of a clarification. Good point about Secure Haven; hadn't considered that. Worth noting that the Secure Haven'ed minion _can_ be randomly selected by Muse of Flame because it's a monster that can be a combatant; a retainer or torpored minion can't be. Consider that a vampire with a Secure Haven in torpor could not be randomly chosen by Muse of Flame - it wouldn't get to the 'action fizzles because it's a (D)' result per SH, as it could never be (randomly) chosen by MoF in the first place. So yeah, I guess it is worth the clarification, including between "that can legally enter combat" and "that can legally be targetted by a (D) action to enter combat". > Witness1 > -ItE -John Flournoy

[ quoted text not captured ] > > Witness1 > > -ItE > > -John Flournoy Secure Haven burns when a vampire goes to torpor. I don't think there's a way to get it on a vamp in torpor either (disputed territory? Kine Dominance?). Merlin

John Flournoy wrote: > witness1 wrote: > Good point about Secure Haven; hadn't considered that. > > Worth noting that the Secure Haven'ed minion _can_ be randomly selected > by Muse of Flame because it's a monster that can be a combatant; a > retainer or torpored minion can't be. > > Consider that a vampire with a Secure Haven in torpor could not be > randomly chosen by Muse of Flame - it wouldn't get to the 'action > fizzles because it's a (D)' result per SH, as it could never be > (randomly) chosen by MoF in the first place. > > So yeah, I guess it is worth the clarification, including between "that > can legally enter combat" and "that can legally be targetted by a (D) > action to enter combat". That's why my initial post made the request for a "choose a random ready minion monster" clarification. It satisfies all the right constraints without changing any rulings, just by copying the necessary text from the rulebook to the card itself. Witness1 -ItE

[ quoted text not captured ] Wait until one of your vampires is torpored. Play it on the torpored vampire. Secure Haven Unique location. Haven. _Put this card on a minion you control_. This minion cannot be affected by (D) actions. Any Methuselah burns an additional pool when playing master cards on (or that target) this minion. Burn this card if this minion enters torpor. A minion can have only one haven. Witness1 -ItE

[ quoted text not captured ] Right. Or i could check the "clarifications" on Monger *before* i post and see that if it's contested when the vampire goes to torpor it does not burn and will come back into play when yeild on the vampire. :p Merlin

> Wait until one of your vampires is torpored. Play it on the torpored > vampire. > > Secure Haven > Unique location. Haven. > _Put this card on a minion you control_. This minion cannot be affected > by (D) actions. Any Methuselah burns an additional pool when playing > master cards on (or that target) this minion. Burn this card if this > minion enters torpor. A minion can have only one haven. > correct... or play it on a imbued and it never goes away :)