Sabbat vs. Sabbat War ---differences?

Are there any differences between the "same" card released in Sabbat as their is in Sabbat War? Thanks

Dustin Cote <dusti...@home.com> wrote: > Are there any differences between the "same" card released in Sabbat > as their is in Sabbat War? The WotC reprint of Sabbat didn't change any of the texts from the original printing of Sabbat, no. The original version of Sabbat did include reprints that were changed from their previous base-set incarnations, either superficially or functionally. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

LSJ wrote: > > Dustin Cote <dusti...@home.com> wrote: > > Are there any differences between the "same" card released in Sabbat > > as their is in Sabbat War? > > The WotC reprint of Sabbat didn't change any of the texts from > the original printing of Sabbat, no. OBVIOUSLY I'm not ranting enough (about the Legacy of Pander change)!!! :-) The correct answer appears to be "yes"! I would think all things on http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/Changes_SabbatWar.html are in fact text changes from The Sabbat to Sabbat War which Dustin seems to be talking about - whether the officially recommended version is the original one or the new one. > The original version of Sabbat did include reprints that were > changed from their previous base-set incarnations, either > superficially or functionally. Fred

fre...@netcom.com wrote: > LSJ wrote: > > > > Dustin Cote <dusti...@home.com> wrote: > > > Are there any differences between the "same" card released in > > > Sabbat as their is in Sabbat War? > > > > The WotC reprint of Sabbat didn't change any of the texts from > > the original printing of Sabbat, no. > > OBVIOUSLY I'm not ranting enough (about the Legacy of Pander > change)!!! :-) > > The correct answer appears to be "yes"! I would think all things on > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/Changes_SabbatWar.html are in fact > text changes from The Sabbat to Sabbat War which Dustin seems to be > talking about - whether the officially recommended version is the > original one or the new one. If you'll re-reade Justin Cote's question, I think you'll see that he is trying to find out if the level of changes found in the Sabbat printing is equivalent to the level of changes found in Sabbat War. Your crusade may be tainting your reading of his question (or he may in fact have been asking the question you have gleened from his text, but I still cannot extract such a meaning from his post). Justin's question can either be referring to the existence of changes found between the 1st and 2nd printing of Sabbat (as there are changes between the 1st and 2nd printing of Sabbat War) or be asking if the reprints found in Sabbat included changes from their original printing as reprints found in Sabbat War do. The former possibility I answered above, the latter below. > > The original version of Sabbat did include reprints that were > > changed from their previous base-set incarnations, either > > superficially or functionally. -- [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ wrote: > > fre...@netcom.com wrote: > > LSJ wrote: > > > > > > Dustin Cote <dusti...@home.com> wrote: > > > > Are there any differences between the "same" card released in > > > > Sabbat as their is in Sabbat War? > > > > > > The WotC reprint of Sabbat didn't change any of the texts from > > > the original printing of Sabbat, no. ... > > The correct answer appears to be "yes"! I would think all things on > > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/Changes_SabbatWar.html are in fact > > text changes from The Sabbat to Sabbat War which Dustin seems to be > > talking about - whether the officially recommended version is the > > original one or the new one. > > If you'll re-reade Justin Cote's question, I think you'll see that > he is trying to find out if the level of changes found in > the Sabbat printing is equivalent to the level of changes found > in Sabbat War. Your crusade may be tainting your reading of > his question (or he may in fact have been asking the question you > have gleened from his text, but I still cannot extract such a > meaning from his post). > > Justin's question can either be referring to the existence of > changes found between the 1st and 2nd printing of Sabbat (as > there are changes between the 1st and 2nd printing of Sabbat > War) or be asking if the reprints found in Sabbat included > changes from their original printing as reprints found in > Sabbat War do. > > The former possibility I answered above, the latter below. This is all a shock to me. I reread your answer after I posted my response and realized you referred to a "WotC reprint of Sabbat" (though I didn't likewise notice Justin's question wasn't exactly what I thought it was, too). I didn't recall there was a ever a second WotC printing of The Sabbat - unless you're talking about a second scheduled "print run" of the same expansion, which is what this sounds like. By a "print run", I mean something that's printed at separate times, possibly at separate locations that results in multiple spurts of supply becoming available at different time. I recall WotC doing this more than once with Magic expansion. The main distinction is that the whole thing was planned ahead of time and was not a reaction to sudden, unexpected sell-out. Was this the case or was the second printing in response to an early sell-out of the first printing - just as with Sabbat War? I should still rant more. Not that it's likely to accomplish anything but a guy's gotta keep in practice. Fred

In article <3A5FA1E4...@netcom.com>, fre...@netcom.com wrote: > This is all a shock to me. I reread your answer after I posted my > response and realized you referred to a "WotC reprint of Sabbat" > (though I didn't likewise notice Justin's question wasn't exactly > what I thought it was, too). I didn't recall there was a ever > a second WotC printing of The Sabbat - unless you're talking about > a second scheduled "print run" of the same expansion, which is what > this sounds like. One year after Sabbat was released, WOTC reprinted it and re-released it, once again on Halloween. This was one of our major problems with Ryan Dancey, formerly in charge of VTES at WOTC, who claimed that the game didn't sell well enough to warrant another expansion. Sabbat sold well enough that they decided to reprint one year after it was first released. Nothing was modified or changed at that time. Carpe Noctem. Lasombra http://lasombra.tripod.com http://legbiter.tripod.com http://vekn_clans.tripod.com [ quoted text not captured ]

heheheh! Wow, people are talking about me in the 3rd person. First off...it's Dustin, not Justin. (But that's ok, since the last name is more important I guess.) Well, I reread my question (Just to make sure I wasn't confused, heh) and will reiterate.... What I was originally asking was, is there a difference between card XXX in "Sabbat" and the card XXX in "Sabbat War". That has been easily answered (thanks) due to the symbols being different. "S" versus "squigly cross thing" (love that description!) The reason I asked this is because due to "Sabbat" prices, I figure that by getting the full "Sabbat War" collection would then narrow down which "Sabbat" cards I'd have to get, to get a "full set". A full set meaning simply one of each card...from whichever set. (usually I settle for nothing less than one of every possible card, no matter how small the difference, but i may just have to live with one of each--any set...so that I can study all the cards atleast) I don't know about you guys/gals...but I went to the VTES web site, and took a copy of "Sabbat" list, and then a copy of "Sabbat War" list and then merged them together, showing which cards were "Sabbat-only", "Sabbat-War-only" , and "Sabbat & Sabbat War" cards. I can now, at a glance see which cards were in both sets, which ones were "Sabbat" only, and which ones were "Sabbat War" only. Ok...so now that I clarified my original question, I have to expand it due to everyone's input.. Looks to me that there was more than one printing of "Sabbat" !! So here it is: 1. Are there ANY individual card differences in the 1st printing of "Sabbat" vs. the 2nd printing of "Sabbat" ? Already Answered: 2. Are there any differences between "Sabbat" cards and "Sabbat War" cards (if they were the same card) ---ALREADY ANSWERED 3. Is there ANY difference between the 1st printing of "Sabbat War" vs. the 2nd printing of "Sabbat War". Answer so far is YES. I've seen 3 examples for text errata, and one vague description of a yellow plate being reversed (what does that mean? Are there other picture related changes?) So, is there any way we can get a list of what is different? (Collectors would like to know:) One thing I'd like to mention...I understand that differences between "First printing and 2nd printing" can blur, and disappear... For instance, the original Jyhad set...we don't talk about there being 3 print runs (or more) but we agree that there were 3 different Tasha Morgans, and 2 different Renegade Garous, (if my memory holds true). These are exactly the type of differences I'm interested in for "Sabbat" and "Sabbat War". Thank you VERY much. Dustin [ quoted text not captured ]

Dustin Cote <dusti...@home.com> wrote: > 1. Are there ANY individual card differences in the 1st printing of > "Sabbat" vs. the 2nd printing of "Sabbat" ? None known, no. > Already Answered: > 2. Are there any differences between "Sabbat" cards and "Sabbat War" > cards (if they were the same card) ---ALREADY ANSWERED Yes. > 3. Is there ANY difference between the 1st printing of "Sabbat War" > vs. the 2nd printing of "Sabbat War". Answer so far is YES. I've seen > 3 examples for text errata, and one vague description of a yellow > plate being reversed (what does that mean? Are there other picture > related changes?) No other art changes of which I'm aware, no. > So, is there any way we can get a list of what is different? > (Collectors would like to know:) Sure. One should appear on the web site RealSoonNow(tm). > One thing I'd like to mention...I understand that differences between > "First printing and 2nd printing" can blur, and disappear... For > instance, the original Jyhad set...we don't talk about there being 3 > print runs (or more) but we agree that there were 3 different Tasha > Morgans, and 2 different Renegade Garous, (if my memory holds true). Only two Tasha's with Jyhad backs. And this is not a function of the number of print runs (I believe Jyhad had only one print run, albeit a very large one) - it's a factor of the card appearing twice on the Rare sheet, with differences between the two instances. > These are exactly the type of differences I'm interested in for > "Sabbat" and "Sabbat War". Ah. Then you'll also be interesting in knowing changes in Artists citations ("Max Fellwalker" vs. "Max Shade Fellwalker" on Angela Decker, for instance). I'm afraid the White Wolf list won't be listing all of those. Also, all of the cards were laid out anew for the Sabbat War printing, so fonts and icons (and icon order on vampires) have almost all changed from the WotC Sabbat runs to the White Wolf Sabbat War runs. [ quoted text not captured ]

>Also, all of the cards were laid out anew for the Sabbat War >printing, so fonts and icons (and icon order on vampires) >have almost all changed from the WotC Sabbat runs to the >White Wolf Sabbat War runs. Oh yeah! There's another major change from Sabbat to Sabbat War. Besides the difference in the S and squigly cross thing, don't forget the Lasombra and Tzimisce got entirely new clan symbols (the crown and the serpent instead of some L and T thing or whatever). So all the Lasombra and Tzimisce vampires, as well as the appropriate clan cards have symbols changes as well. Halcyan 2