Multiple Damage Prevention

Recently our group got discussing how to prevent damage and some confusion arose. After much discusion and some research most issues were settled. The one area I am still confused on is in what order are multiple strikes prevented. Example: Basilia (Gangrel with aggravated hand damage) hits my prey's for 1 aggravated hand damage, and I also play "Aid from Bats" for an additional 1 damage. However my prey could only prevent 1 damage. My question is which damage gets prevented first? And why? Depending on which damage is prevented will determine if my prey's minion will go to torpor. Thanks for your time, Paul Cecil Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Quoth the ceci...@my-deja.com: > Basilia (Gangrel with aggravated hand damage) > hits my prey's for 1 aggravated hand damage, and > I also play "Aid from Bats" for an additional 1 > damage. However my prey could only prevent 1 > damage. My question is which damage gets > prevented first? And why? There is little room for misunderstanding here, because there is no way you can strike twice during one round; if you inflict the one aggravated hand damage, you can't play Aid from Bats. If you play Aid from Bats, you can't strike with your hands in the same round. But, in theory (and this is possible situation, to have both normal and aggro damage same time), I guess your prey could choose which damage to prevent, I'm not sure though. -- Mikko Saari For you I even be a sunflower msa...@cc.jyu.fi Do you hear my enlightening laughter? 168 another reason to cut off an ear

In article <863lkb$vqs$1...@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>, [ quoted text not captured ] First you must prevent normal damage. When all of normal damage is prevented then you can prevent aggro damage. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <863jjv$fl9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, ceci...@my-deja.com wrote: > Recently our group got discussing how to prevent > damage and some confusion arose. After much > discusion and some research most issues were > settled. The one area I am still confused on is > in what order are multiple strikes prevented. Hm, perhaps tell us the settled issues, too. You might have confused some rules, see below. :) > > Example: > Basilia (Gangrel with aggravated hand damage) > hits my prey's for 1 aggravated hand damage, and > I also play "Aid from Bats" for an additional 1 > damage. However my prey could only prevent 1 > damage. My question is which damage gets > prevented first? And why? You seem to have made an error here, there are two options: 1) you didn't mean "Aid from Bats" but "Carrion Crows" (Sabbat) which inflicts 1 or 2 "environmental" damage. 2) you are not familiar with the rules of choosing strikes. A minion can only use one (1) strike each round of combat (unless there are additional strike cards played in the appropriate step...). This means either to strike with hands (no card played) *or* play a strike card (e.g. Aid from Bats). (*Or* use a weapon for the strike.) > > Depending on which damage is prevented will > determine if my prey's minion will go to torpor. You can prevent any damage you like (providing you play the cards you need for it), wheter it's aggravated or normal damage. There is no rule forcing a minion to prevent aggravated damage before normal (though you might want to prevent normal and aggravated not, in some circumstances). Carl [ quoted text not captured ]

On 19 Jan 2000 06:29:31 GMT, msa...@cc.jyu.fi wrote: >Quoth the ceci...@my-deja.com: >> Basilia (Gangrel with aggravated hand damage) >> hits my prey's for 1 aggravated hand damage, and >> I also play "Aid from Bats" for an additional 1 >> damage. However my prey could only prevent 1 >> damage. My question is which damage gets >> prevented first? And why? > >There is little room for misunderstanding here, because there is no way >you can strike twice during one round; if you inflict the one aggravated >hand damage, you can't play Aid from Bats. If you play Aid from Bats, you >can't strike with your hands in the same round. I'm going to assume that somehow Basilia has generated additional strikes, since what you say above is correct - either you strike with Aid from Bats, or you strike with hands. You don't get to do both. So say she has a Celerity card on her, and will play a Blur to generate one additional strike that round, and for some reason will play an Aid from Bats to strike instead of using her agg hands. In this case, you resolve the first strike first, which would be the 1 agg from hands. Your victim must prevent this or go to torpor. If your victim goes to torpor, you do not even get the option to generate additional strikes, much less play cards for them. If you reverse the order of the strikes, then yes, your victim may decline to prevent the Aid from Bats damage, but may play his Skin of Rock or Sideslip against the aggravated hand damage instead. -- Derek Deafness never kept composers from hearing the music. It only stopped them hearing the distractions.

>Example: >Basilia (Gangrel with aggravated hand damage) >hits my prey's for 1 aggravated hand damage, and >I also play "Aid from Bats" for an additional 1 >damage. However my prey could only prevent 1 >damage. My question is which damage gets >prevented first? And why? The very problem is: Basilia play Carrion Crows and strike for 1 aggr. hand damage. The opposed vampire has 1 blood. Is him burn? Pivanti "Lazverinuts" Marco

On Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:23:57 +0100, "Maverick" <ma...@cerinf.it> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] No as the ruling has changed it now takes two agg to burn you, no more ivort bow sleaze .... ho hum.

Ok and if basilia play undead strength and do 2 agg damage with carrion crows (2 damage) and the oppo. vampire has 2 blood , If the opp. vamp. Burned?

In article <863jjv$fl9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, ceci...@my-deja.com wrote: > Recently our group got discussing how to prevent > damage and some confusion arose. After much > discusion and some research most issues were > settled. The one area I am still confused on is > in what order are multiple strikes prevented. > > Example: > Basilia (Gangrel with aggravated hand damage) > hits my prey's for 1 aggravated hand damage, and > I also play "Aid from Bats" for an additional 1 > damage. However my prey could only prevent 1 > damage. My question is which damage gets > prevented first? And why? > > Depending on which damage is prevented will > determine if my prey's minion will go to torpor. > > Thanks for your time, > Paul Cecil > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. > Sorry folks, My fault when I typed this origanally. I did not think my question through before typing it. What I was trying to ask was in the cases involving additional damage caused by either enviromental cards ("Carrion Crows") or retainers ("Murder of Crows" or "Wolf Companion"). From what I have read it looks as if normal damage is prevented first followed by aggravated damage. Paul Cecil [ quoted text not captured ]

mr_b...@my-deja.com wrote: > First you must prevent normal damage. When all of normal damage is > prevented then you can prevent aggro damage. Damage can be prevented in any order. Unprevented damage is handled in the order you suggest, though. -- LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) V:TES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/rules.asp

msa...@cc.jyu.fi wrote: > > Quoth the ceci...@my-deja.com: > > Basilia (Gangrel with aggravated hand damage) > > hits my prey's for 1 aggravated hand damage, and > > I also play "Aid from Bats" for an additional 1 > > damage. However my prey could only prevent 1 > > damage. My question is which damage gets > > prevented first? And why? > > There is little room for misunderstanding here, because there is no way > you can strike twice during one round; if you inflict the one aggravated > hand damage, you can't play Aid from Bats. If you play Aid from Bats, you > can't strike with your hands in the same round. Correct (unless you count additional strikes, but that's not important here). > But, in theory (and this is possible situation, to have both normal and > aggro damage same time), I guess your prey could choose which damage to > prevent, I'm not sure though. Correct. The minion preventing damage chooses which damage he will prevent. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Yes, unless he prevents some of the damage. The damage is handled in order: 1. normal 2. normal 3. agg 4. agg 1 + 2: The two normal damage (from crows) requires the vampire to burn his two blood to heal. 3: The agg damage cannot be healed, so the vampire is "wounded". 4: The last point (again agg) will burn the vampire (since he is wounded) unless he burns a blood. He has no blood left, so he is burned. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:23:57 +0100, "Maverick" <ma...@cerinf.it> wrote: >>Example: >>Basilia (Gangrel with aggravated hand damage) >>hits my prey's for 1 aggravated hand damage, and >>I also play "Aid from Bats" for an additional 1 >>damage. However my prey could only prevent 1 >>damage. My question is which damage gets >>prevented first? And why? > > >The very problem is: > Basilia play Carrion Crows and strike for 1 aggr. hand damage. > The opposed vampire has 1 blood. > Is him burn? yes. crows do 2 normal damage, which sends a 1-blood vamp to torpor. then he takes one agg while wounded, which burns him since he has none to prevent destruction. [ quoted text not captured ]

Earlier in the thread, LSJ points out that you can prevent damage in any order you wish. Personally whenever I'm in a situation where I'm receiving both regular and Agg damage, I always prevent the agg first if possible. In article <8646h1$t08$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, ceci...@my-deja.com wrote: > From what I have read it looks as if normal damage is prevented first > followed by aggravated damage. ------------- Ethan Burrow - Prince of Austin et...@ddg.com http://whitestar.ddg.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2000 mr_b...@my-deja.com wrote: > First you must prevent normal damage. When all of normal damage is > prevented then you can prevent aggro damage. Incorrect. You prevent whichever damage you choose to. -- James Coupe

>> But, in theory (and this is possible situation, to have both normal and >> aggro damage same time), I guess your prey could choose which damage to >> prevent, I'm not sure though. > >Correct. The minion preventing damage chooses which damage he will >prevent. HOwever, if the first strike in question is the aggravated damage,then unless is chosen to prevent this damage then surley combat ends at this point before the second strike is resolved, and the vampire goes straight to torpor...? ---- Mike mi...@darkness.org.uk work in progress... www.darkness.org.uk

On Wed, 19 Jan 2000, Derek S. Ray wrote: > > Basilia play Carrion Crows and strike for 1 aggr. hand damage. > > The opposed vampire has 1 blood. > > Is him burn? > > yes. crows do 2 normal damage, which sends a 1-blood vamp to torpor. > then he takes one agg while wounded, which burns him since he has none > to prevent destruction. actually, in this example, the vampire never goes to torpor. after all the damage is dealt with (including a vampire's destruction) a wounded vampire would go to torpor, but a burned vampire is just burned, having gone straight from ready to burned with no torpor in between. -davey!

On Thu, 20 Jan 2000 14:30:03 -0600, radiophonic oddity <dhat...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote: >> yes. crows do 2 normal damage, which sends a 1-blood vamp to torpor. >> then he takes one agg while wounded, which burns him since he has none >> to prevent destruction. > >actually, in this example, the vampire never goes to torpor. after all >the damage is dealt with (including a vampire's destruction) a wounded >vampire would go to torpor, but a burned vampire is just burned, having >gone straight from ready to burned with no torpor in between. Well, phrasing fault there. 2 normal damage to a 1-blood vamp causes him to become wounded and would normally send him to torpor, except that he's getting another agg which will burn him. i was just pointing out that the vampire would be on his way to torpor from normal damage, and therefore wounded, only requiring 1 agg, instead of the 2 someone else thought. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <3885B778...@wizards.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] In this case, can the vampire first prevent agg. damage? [ quoted text not captured ]

mr_b...@my-deja.com wrote: > > In article <3885B778...@wizards.com>, > LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> wrote: > > Maverick wrote: > > > > > > Ok and if basilia play undead strength and do 2 agg damage with > carrion > > > crows (2 damage) and the oppo. vampire has 2 blood , If the opp. > vamp. > > > Burned? > > > > Yes, unless he prevents some of the damage. > > The damage is handled in order: > > 1. normal > > 2. normal > > 3. agg > > 4. agg > > > > 1 + 2: The two normal damage (from crows) requires the vampire to burn > his > > two blood to heal. > > 3: The agg damage cannot be healed, so the vampire is "wounded". > > 4: The last point (again agg) will burn the vampire (since he is > > wounded) unless he burns a blood. He has no blood left, so he > > is burned. > In this case, can the vampire first prevent agg. damage? In any case, if the vampire can prevent damage, he is free to prevent whichever point(s) of damage he chooses. But the prevention is handled before the healing or burning blood to prevent destruction. [ quoted text not captured ]