rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Greenleaf, Spamming, and Greed (was We've got the Magic...CD ROM game!!!

14 messages from 12 participants · 26 August 1995 – 30 August 1995
original thread on Google Groups

Jim Cowling

Tim Kline <gree...@interramp.com> wrote: >If you take and extra second or 2 to go back and read through the >newsgroups you will find a public appology. > >The spamming was a major acident, we're sorry. Enough with the damn >flames, people. A major accident? Then would you care to explain why there have been more than a handful of other posts from Greenleaf ("New Online Gaming Store!", etc.) which have been posted to groups other than the .marketplace newsgroups? No advertising of any kind should be made anywhere except in the appropriate marketplace newsgroups -- not in rec.games.frp.misc, not in rec.games.t-c.magic.misc, not in rec.games.board. And yet you've constantly posted advertisements in these and other newsgroups, where advertisements for your "store" should never be found except in the following newsgroups: rec.games.frp.marketplace rec.games.board.marketplace rec.games.traind-cards.marketplace These three and no other. Not in any discussion newsgroups, never, ever, no way, without excuse. I wrote the FAQ for rec.arts.comics.marketplace, which at one time was the highest-traffic marketplace newsgroup on the Net. I spent a lot of time stopping abuses of the Net by spamming sales posters. And now that I pay for my access, I really dislike seeing this kind of abuse even more. And I'm even looking for a good source for games -- since my layoff from the game store that I managed for close to seven years, I'm unwilling to pay full retail. I was considering going through you guys, but I'm loathe to buy from any company which spams the Net. And your history of spamming (which I define as wide crossposting to inappropriate newsgroups) goes long before this occurrence. While I managed that store, I did considerable business over the Net, and always posted only to the appropriate newsgroups. Good money can be made by businesses which properly use the Net. The only possible reason I could see to spam is pure simple greed. I certainly don't want to shop with anyone like that. I think it might be a good idea for other posters here to publicly recommend good discount mailorder houses (OTHER than Greenleaf) in this thread. ------- Jim Cowling moderator, rec.arts.comics.info Author, rec.arts.comics.marketplace FAQ -------

Lydia Leong

In article <41odo0$s...@sulla.cyberstore.ca>, Jim Cowling <scow...@cyberstore.ca> wrote: >Tim Kline <gree...@interramp.com> wrote: >>The spamming was a major acident, we're sorry. Enough with the damn >>flames, people. > >A major accident? > >Then would you care to explain why there have been more than a handful >of other posts from Greenleaf ("New Online Gaming Store!", etc.) which >have been posted to groups other than the .marketplace newsgroups? [Lots of other good points deleted] Let me add my voice of agreement to this. There are appropriate ways and inappropriate ways to advertise on the Net. Greenleaf has been skirting the edge -- it hasn't, up to this point, done anything sufficient to warrant flaming them for it, but the incessant posts are highly irritating. Nor are Greenleaf's prices so phenomenally good that it seems worthwhile to order from them. (Crazy Egor's still seems to be the discount mail-order place of choice, for a lot of people. I've heard Wargames West is good, too.) Finally, I'm extremely irritated by misleading subject lines. I _loathe_ subject lines specifically designed to get your attention and then tell you something entirely different. That's a fine and dandy trick in standard advertising, but this is a DISCUSSION GROUP, and I'd like my discussions without commercial breaks, please. -- Lydia

Kevin Mowery

Lydia Leong (l...@blue.seas.upenn.edu) wrote: : In article <41odo0$s...@sulla.cyberstore.ca>, : Jim Cowling <scow...@cyberstore.ca> wrote: : >Tim Kline <gree...@interramp.com> wrote: : >>The spamming was a major acident, we're sorry. Enough with the damn : >>flames, people. : > : >A major accident? : > : >Then would you care to explain why there have been more than a handful : >of other posts from Greenleaf ("New Online Gaming Store!", etc.) which : >have been posted to groups other than the .marketplace newsgroups? : [Lots of other good points deleted] : Let me add my voice of agreement to this. : There are appropriate ways and inappropriate ways to advertise on the : Net. I'll agree with everything up to this point except the bit from the previous poster's message about recommending other places to get games. Most of us have stores locally we get our gaming supplies from. Those who don't can either look on appropriate newsgroups or ask for e-mail on where to order from. Some of us don't have the luxury of a killfile. : Greenleaf has been skirting the edge -- it hasn't, up to this point, : done anything sufficient to warrant flaming them for it, but the : incessant posts are highly irritating. : Nor are Greenleaf's prices so phenomenally good that it seems : worthwhile to order from them. (Crazy Egor's still seems to be the : discount mail-order place of choice, for a lot of people. I've : heard Wargames West is good, too.) : Finally, I'm extremely irritated by misleading subject lines. I : _loathe_ subject lines specifically designed to get your attention : and then tell you something entirely different. That's a fine and : dandy trick in standard advertising, but this is a DISCUSSION GROUP, : and I'd like my discussions without commercial breaks, please. I wasn't particularly *misled* by the subject line, so much as *intrigued*. Usually, as I said, there's only one part in a post that's off-topic for the newsgroup. I wasn't expecting an advert, though, so I guess I was a little misled. : -- Lydia -- Kevin Mowery --- kemo...@freenet.columbus.oh.us___________________________ "We do not own the earth, we are borrowing it from our children" --Amerind proverb "Nothing parties like a rental." --Anonymous

Michael Golden

kemo...@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Kevin Mowery) wrote: >Lydia Leong (l...@blue.seas.upenn.edu) wrote: >: In article <41odo0$s...@sulla.cyberstore.ca>, >: Jim Cowling <scow...@cyberstore.ca> wrote: >: >Tim Kline <gree...@interramp.com> wrote: >: >>The spamming was a major acident, we're sorry. Enough with the damn >: >>flames, people. >: > >: >A major accident? >: > >: >Then would you care to explain why there have been more than a handful >: >of other posts from Greenleaf ("New Online Gaming Store!", etc.) which >: >have been posted to groups other than the .marketplace newsgroups? [bitch,bitch,bitch snipped] I've done business with Greenleaf, and they have always seemed reputable and respectful of the ccg industry and players. they apologized for their mistake, and haven't made inappropriate posts since. LET IT GO! you'll get over it! (shouldn't you guys be discovering interesting new combos, or discussing candidates for restriction, or bitching at Sparky? ;) -- michael golden -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The strength of the pack is the wolf, and the strength of the wolf is the pack" --------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gentleman Loser

l...@blue.seas.upenn.edu (Lydia Leong) wrote: >Greenleaf has been skirting the edge -- it hasn't, up to this point, >done anything sufficient to warrant flaming them for it, but the >incessant posts are highly irritating. >Finally, I'm extremely irritated by misleading subject lines. I >_loathe_ subject lines specifically designed to get your attention >and then tell you something entirely different. That's a fine and >dandy trick in standard advertising, but this is a DISCUSSION GROUP, >and I'd like my discussions without commercial breaks, please. > -- Lydia I agree. What greenleaf are doing is advertising free of charge onto the usenet. If they want to advertise then they should be made to buy space like everyone else. If they believe that the Internet should remain fee for all of us to use then show some restraint. Your commercial interests are of little interest to me. This group is for the discussion of frp's and not for adverts. If people want to post swaps then ok but make sure you mark it ADVERTISEMENT in the subject line at all times so we know waht to ignore. If you do not like being flamed then just dont do anything flame worthy!!

Deanna Hatter

Jim Cowling (scow...@cyberstore.ca) wrote: : Then would you care to explain why there have been more than a handful of other posts : from Greenleaf ("New Online Gaming Store!", etc.) which have been posted to groups : other than the .marketplace newsgroups? I take it you didn't read the aplogy? It's due to a newsreader error... when he tries to post to a specific range of newsgroups it ends up posting to a much wider specification.....check through some of the articles from the last few days..then again, your server might not have gotten it yet... Jason

sl...@cc.usu.edu

> > I think it might be a good idea for other posters here to publicly recommend good > discount mailorder houses (OTHER than Greenleaf) in this thread. > > ------- > Jim Cowling > moderator, rec.arts.comics.info > Author, rec.arts.comics.marketplace FAQ > ------- And I think this would be a very bad idea. You state that this newsgroup is inappropiate for publicizing a game store, and then encourage people to do exactly that as a means of revenge. That isn't logical, and it certainly isn't appropiate. Colin sl...@cc.usu.edu

Marcus Spears

L. Scott Johnson (lsc...@crl.com) wrote: : No. It's due to an operator error. There are NO newsreaders out there that : are capable of appending extraneous groups to the Newsgroups: line : of a post on their own. The repeated "error" by the newsreader should : be cause for more training in how to use the newsreader. BZZT! Wrong! MY newsreader can append extraneous groups! If I specify groups using wildcards, e.g., "*.marketplace" to find the marketplace groups, my newsreader will automatically append EVERY GROUP INBETWEEN. If I need to crosspost, I have to give specific group names... no wildcards. I'm not saying whether or not Greenleaf made an honest mistake or not, because I don't know for sure. I just wanted to point out that it IS possible that the problem was with his newsreader. If my newsreader can do it, so can his. -- Marcus Spears Phone: (903) 886-5249 Data Processing Services Fax: (903) 886-5415 East Texas State University E-Mail: MSP...@ETSUADMN.ETSU.EDU Commerce, Texas 75429 or: MSP...@ORION.ETSU.EDU

L. Scott Johnson

In article <41slrr$j...@hermes.oc.com>, Marcus Spears <msp...@orion.etsu.edu> wrote: >L. Scott Johnson (lsc...@crl.com) wrote: >: No. It's due to an operator error. There are NO newsreaders out there that >: are capable of appending extraneous groups to the Newsgroups: line >: of a post on their own. The repeated "error" by the newsreader should >: be cause for more training in how to use the newsreader. > > BZZT! Wrong! MY newsreader can append extraneous groups! If I >specify groups using wildcards, e.g., "*.marketplace" to find the >marketplace groups, my newsreader will automatically append EVERY GROUP >INBETWEEN. If I need to crosspost, I have to give specific group names... >no wildcards. The newsreader didn't append extraneous newsgroups - you did (by specifying the newsgroups with "*.marketplace"). Every newsreader has certain functionality to make life easier. But, like anything, can be relied on too much to think for the user. This is the user's fault, not the program's. As you say: Try giving specific groups, and see how many extraneous newsgroups that bad ol' newsreader appends then. -- ----- L. Scott Johnson (lsc...@crl.com) | The opinions expressed are mine Graphics Specialist and Jyhad Rulemonger | and subject to card text

L. Scott Johnson

In article <41q6u2$o...@warp.cris.com>, Deanna Hatter <Towo...@cris.com> wrote: > > I take it you didn't read the aplogy? It's due to a newsreader error... >when he tries to post to a specific range of newsgroups it ends up >posting to a much wider specification.....check through some of the >articles from the last few days..then again, your server might not have >gotten it yet... > >Jason > No. It's due to an operator error. There are NO newsreaders out there that are capable of appending extraneous groups to the Newsgroups: line of a post on their own. The repeated "error" by the newsreader should be cause for more training in how to use the newsreader. If I repeatedly oversteered in my automobile (an error in the steering design, no doubt :-), I would get some help driving instead of just carombing off of other cars and saying "sorry". [ quoted text not captured ]

Mike Mushovic

Looking for the main RIFTS book from Palladium. email me if you have one for sale! Thanks, Mike mush...@babagi.enet.dec.com

Fiz-Bin

How Much are you offering? Contact me at djb...@pop.uky.edu.. By the way, I have all the Rifts stuff, including the calendar, so you can make inquiries into them as well.

NoMarvel

I have a copy of the Rifts Main Book for $15.00 It is in NM condition (wasn't used much) "E" me if interested. NoMarvel (Ron)

Marcus Spears

L. Scott Johnson (lsc...@crl.com) wrote: : The newsreader didn't append extraneous newsgroups - you did (by specifying : the newsgroups with "*.marketplace"). No, Scott. Trust me. The newsreader appended the extraneous newsgroups, not me. If I use "*.marketplace" as a wildcard, my newsreader is SUPPOSED to only select the groups that END with the letters "marketplace". At least that's the way the "Group Subscribe" and "Group Unsubscribe" commands work. But there's a bug in my newsreader in the "Post Message" command that causes it to select everything in-between, too. I've looked at the source code, I've found and corrected the bug. But I haven't been able to convince the university to recompile the newsreader and put it on-line. At least I was able to cancel my message before it got propagated to dozens of unrelated newsgroups and hundreds of providers. [ quoted text not captured ]