[LSJ] Rules Q: Charnas vs. Stanislava

Hello, this question came up during recent play: If a minion has Charnas the Imp on him, and then gets into combat with Stanislava - can he then do harm to Charnas (e.g., with Weather Control)? We ruled yes, the logic being that Stanislava's special says "Retainers employed by a minion opposing Stanislava lose their abilities...", and this would also include Charnas ability "Charnas is immune to damage from that minion" - no matter that Stanislava would, in this case, actually be doing the opposing vampire a favor. Is that right? Charnas the Imp [Jyhad, V:TES, CE] Cardtype: Retainer Clan: Tremere Cost: 1 blood Unique demon with 1 life. Put Charnas on any minion (employing Charnas is a (D) action if that minion is controlled by another Methuselah). The minion with this retainer takes 1 damage during his or her untap phase. Charnas is immune to damage from that minion. If the minion is burned, his or her controlling Methuselah can put Charnas on any minion. Stanislava [DS] Cardtype: Vampire Clan: Gangrel Group: 2 Capacity: 11 Discipline: ANI CEL DOM FOR PRO <Camarilla> Inner Circle: (4 votes) Retainers employed by a minion opposing Stanislava lose their abilities until the end of combat; allies cannot block Stanislava. +2 bleed. Hardy Range Prince of Bochum (Germany) http://www.vekn.de

Hardy Range wrote: > Hello, > > this question came up during recent play: > > If a minion has Charnas the Imp on him, and then gets into combat with > Stanislava - can he then do harm to Charnas (e.g., with Weather > Control)? Yes. He can do so even without Stanislava. Weather Control damage is not "from the minion", so Charnas's special doesn't protect him in the first place. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3E97F58F...@white-wolf.com... > Hardy Range wrote: > > Hello, > > > > this question came up during recent play: > > > > If a minion has Charnas the Imp on him, and then gets into combat with > > Stanislava - can he then do harm to Charnas (e.g., with Weather > > Control)? > > Yes. He can do so even without Stanislava. Weather Control damage is > not "from the minion", so Charnas's special doesn't protect him in the > first place. I'm not quite sure if you were also answering the general "can he harm Charnas" question - so, while opposing Stanislava, a vampire with Charnas on him who strikes with Body of Sun will successfully inflict the Body of Sun side-effect damage on Charnas, right? Josh answer not ready: errata, rule, clarify?

[ quoted text not captured ] "He" can't harm Charnas (by card text on Charnas) unless Charnas's card text is deactivated (e.g., by Stanislava's special), right. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3E9B045F...@white-wolf.com>... > "He" can't harm Charnas (by card text on Charnas) unless Charnas's > card text is deactivated (e.g., by Stanislava's special), right. just how many cards are there that allow the minion to harm charnas? Body of Sun and....? anyone? salem prince of canberra

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3E9B045F...@white-wolf.com>... > "He" can't harm Charnas (by card text on Charnas) unless Charnas's > card text is deactivated (e.g., by Stanislava's special), right. Sorry if it's a silly question, but I'm confused here: I would have guessed that whoever brought Charnas into play, would be the one to have employed him. So, the guy opposing Stanislava would not be "the minion employing Charnas", and Stani's special wouldn't have any effect on him? Probably a stupid idea, but nevertheless.. Jo

wolflord wrote: > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3E9B045F...@white-wolf.com>... > >>"He" can't harm Charnas (by card text on Charnas) unless Charnas's >>card text is deactivated (e.g., by Stanislava's special), right. > > Sorry if it's a silly question, but I'm confused here: > I would have guessed that whoever brought Charnas into play, would be > the one to have employed him. "Employed" him, yes (he took the employ retainer action). "Employing" him, no (he is not the minion whom Charnas "serves"). > So, the guy opposing Stanislava would not be "the minion employing > Charnas", and Stani's special wouldn't have any effect on him? The minion the retainer is on is the one "employing" him. Here "employing" means roughly the same as "using" or "with the services of" Like "bearer" for equipment. [ quoted text not captured ]

salem_ch...@yahoo.com (salem) wrote in message news:<293af2cc.03041...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] How about Burst of Sunlight if played at long range? Usual "damaging retainers" stuff can only happen at long range, so if you use a strike that kicks back, could it work against a retainer you control? LSJ? DH

hamdamcwa wrote: > salem_ch...@yahoo.com (salem) wrote in message news:<293af2cc.03041...@posting.google.com>... >>just how many cards are there that allow the minion [with Charnas] to harm charnas? >>Body of Sun and....? > > How about Burst of Sunlight if played at long range? > > Usual "damaging retainers" stuff can only happen at long range, so if > you use a strike that kicks back, could it work against a retainer you > control? > > LSJ? ? Burst of Sunlight "kicks back" to the striking vampire. (card text) Or maybe you meant one of the following questions: "Can the minion target a retainer he controls with a ranged strike?" No. "Can a retainer be targeted by the opposing minion's ranged strike?" Yes. [ quoted text not captured ]

>> "He" can't harm Charnas (by card text on Charnas) unless Charnas's >> card text is deactivated (e.g., by Stanislava's special), right. > >just how many cards are there that allow the minion to harm charnas? >Body of Sun and....? >anyone? Cryptic Mission. Shadow Twin. Halcyan 2