LSJ: Timing question

Minion A is blocked by minion B. Minion A plays some Strike: Combat Ends card. Minion B plays Burst of Sunlight and Rotschreck. The question is this: which strike takes precedence? Does combat end with no other effect, or does combat end with Minion A being sent to torpor? Thanks in advance, David -- David M. Dávila Creator of the Elder Library Deck Builder© http://intj.home.mindspring.com/eldb/eldb.html --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- ---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---

David M. Dávila <david...@my-dejanews.com> wrote: > Minion A is blocked by minion B. Minion A plays some Strike: Combat Ends > card. Minion B plays Burst of Sunlight and Rotschreck. > > The question is this: which strike takes precedence? Does combat end > with no other effect, or does combat end with Minion A being sent to > torpor? (Assuming Minion A is a vampire:) Well, the S:CE has precedence over the Burst of Sunlight, but it doesn't matter since you never get to the strike resolution phase. Rotschreck ends combat immediately when it is played (before strike resolution, in this case), sending Vampire A to torpor. -- LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <7hp9j8$gdn$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, David M. Dávila <david...@my-dejanews.com> wrote: > Minion A is blocked by minion B. Minion A plays some Strike: Combat Ends card. Minion B plays Burst of Sunlight and Rotschreck. Hi David. I may not be LSJ, but here goes. Combat: [no range crap] Acting Minion's Strike Declaration - S:CE (Majesty or equivalent) Reacting Minion's Strike Declaration - Burst of Sunlight Assuming Acting minion is a vampire and it is not the Reacting Minions' Methusalahs turn, Reacting Minion plays Rotschreck. Combat ends due to Rotschreck and Acting Minion goes to torpor and does not untap - blah blah Had combat reached the point way down here to where the strikes begin to resolve [due to a sudden reversal of the Rotschreck for example], combat would have ended due to the majesty since it has precedence over all other strike resolutions. Had combat reached the point way down here [ due to a sudden reversal of the Rotschreck and a Direct intervention of the majesty (and no other S:CE strike was chosen) or whatever] then the Burst would resolve and deal damage to all combat participants. After that, then there would be some chance to prevent/change the damage and all that fun stuff. The question that I want LSJ to answer in this thread is the following situation: Combat: [no range crap] Acting Minion's Strike Declaration - S:CE (Majesty or equivalent) Reacting Minion's Strike Declaration - Burst of Sunlight Acting minion drops a skin of night as it is her ability to play the next card after the burst hits the table. [Assuming Acting minion is a vampire and it is not the Reacting Minions' Methusalahs turn] Can the Reacting Minion plays Rotschreck? I would assume that this falls into the same category of answers as if it were Merril receiving the one point of agg or someone with a flack jacket and/or ablative skin type counters. Since the agg strike never actually resolves, there is no chance to prevent it or treat it as normal. There is only the declaration of an agg strike on this minion. However, since the skin of night is already in effect before the Rot can be played, there might be a chance of it saving you. A Slim chance anyway. I'd just like to have a 'LSJ said so' on this one. Thanks Stu [ quoted text not captured ]

pie...@my-dejanews.com wrote: > Acting Minion's Strike Declaration - S:CE > Reacting Minion's Strike Declaration - Burst of Sunlight > Acting minion drops a skin of night as it is her ability to > play the next card after the burst hits the table. > > Can the Reacting Minion plays Rotschreck? Yes...Rotschreck doesn't care whether damage prevention (or conversion) is used. Only that a minion attempted to use aggravated damage. There's no real timing issue as the Reacting player can play Burst and Rots at the same time if they like. Btw, this was the response I got from LSJ last year when we were sorting out environmental agg damage issues with regards to Rotschreck. Noal McDonald National Jyhad League -- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" -Plato [ quoted text not captured ]

> Well, the S:CE has precedence over the Burst of Sunlight, but it > doesn't matter since you never get to the strike resolution phase. > Rotschreck ends combat immediately when it is played (before strike > resolution, in this case), sending Vampire A to torpor. On this same note, say there is a sup DotB in effect during a round of combat. The acting vamp attempts to use agg damage and the blocking vamp plays Rotz. Does the damage from DotB get applied? a0 --- I told the priest - don't count on any second coming. God got his ass kicked the first time he came down here slumming. He had the balls to come, the gall to die and then forgive us. No, I don't wonder why, I wonder what he thought it would get us -- Concrete Blonde

dhar...@my-dejanews.com wrote: > pie...@my-dejanews.com wrote: > > Acting Minion's Strike Declaration - S:CE > > Reacting Minion's Strike Declaration - Burst of Sunlight > > Acting minion drops a skin of night as it is her ability to > > play the next card after the burst hits the table. > > > > Can the Reacting Minion plays Rotschreck? > > Yes...Rotschreck doesn't care whether damage prevention > (or conversion) is used. Only that a minion attempted to > use aggravated damage. There's no real timing issue as > the Reacting player can play Burst and Rots at the same > time if they like. Correct. The "whether successfully or not" phrasing on Rotschreck is designed to stave off this question - it doesn't matter if the attempt to use aggravated damage would be ultimately successful or not (dodged, prevented, treated as normal, etc.). It only matters that the attempt to use aggravated damage against the vampire was made. (The attempt has to be for at least one point of aggravated damage and has to be "against the vampire"). -- LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <7hpsi5$v1b$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, dhar...@my-dejanews.com wrote: > Btw, this was the response I got from LSJ last year when > we were sorting out environmental agg damage issues > with regards to Rotschreck. > Noal McDonald > National Jyhad League huh? Rotschreck - Master Out-Of-Turn Cannot be played in response to aggravated damage done from "environmental" sources. :C02: [RTR 19961113] Stu [ quoted text not captured ]

> Rotschreck - Master Out-Of-Turn Cannot be played in response to aggravated > damage done from "environmental" sources. :C02: [RTR 19961113] I'm aware of the ruling. There was a discussion about what constituted environmental sources last year. Some of it had to do with the NJL's discussion regarding Rots. last year when it was brought up in our rules team for a ruling debate. Noal National Jyhad League -- "You can't imagine the extra work I had when I was a god." -Hirohito, Emperor of Japan (1901-1989) [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <7hrjht$3i1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> writes >it >doesn't matter if the attempt to use aggravated damage >would be ultimately successful or not (dodged, prevented, >treated as normal, etc.). Yes it does. If it's a hand strike at range, Rotschreck is unplayable. -- James Coupe (Prince of Mercia, England) Vampire: Elder Kindred Network http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net http://www.obeah.demon.co.uk

On Tue, 18 May 1999 17:21:39 +0100 James Coupe <ve...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote: > In article <r8_%2.224$tx.1...@newshog.newsread.com>, AgentZero > <agen...@my-dejanews.com> writes > > > >On this same note, say there is a sup DotB > >in effect during a round of combat. The > >acting vamp attempts to use agg damage and > >the blocking vamp plays Rotz. Does the damage > >from DotB get applied? > > One would assume so. DotB damage occurs even > if the round ends prematurely (say from S:CE) > and, ignoring its other effects, Rotschreck > ends the combat prematurely. Correct. -- LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html -- Posted via Talkway - http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything (tm).

In article <mZzKORA$0aQ3...@obeah.demon.co.uk>, James Coupe <ve...@obeah.demon.co.uk> wrote: > In article <7hrjht$3i1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> > writes > >it > >doesn't matter if the attempt to use aggravated damage > >would be ultimately successful or not (dodged, prevented, > >treated as normal, etc.). > > Yes it does. If it's a hand strike at range, Rotschreck > is unplayable. Heh. Careful with those sound bites. Your statement (after the "yes it does" part, anyway) is correct, as is the quote from my post. The concept to which you take exception was handled by the next sentence from my post (which you cut). As I've already said: a hand strike at (long) range is not an attempt to use aggravated damage "against a vampire", and therefore doesn't meet the requirements given by card text on Rotschreck. Rotschreck cannot be played because there is no (required) attempt, not because the attempt (if there was one) would be unsuccessful. An actual attempt, even one that would be unsuccessful, would still be sufficient to play Rotschreck, by card text. As I said. -- LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <r8_%2.224$tx.1...@newshog.newsread.com>, AgentZero <agen...@my-dejanews.com> writes > >On this same note, say there is a sup DotB in effect during a round of >combat. The acting vamp attempts to use agg damage and the blocking >vamp plays Rotz. Does the damage from DotB get applied? One would assume so. DotB damage occurs even if the round ends prematurely (say from S:CE) and, ignoring its other effects, Rotschreck ends the combat prematurely. -- [ quoted text not captured ]