[LSJ] Rotschreck and IG

At last weekends Storyline the dreaded rotschreck gave people a headache again. A Malkavian in a Madness Network equipped with White Phosphorous Grenade got Immortally Grappled and his Methusaleh wanted to play a Rotschreck. Is that possible and with what results? Frank. -- Frank Crins, 'Vampire:Elder Kindred Network'-Prince of Eindhoven 'Top Runners Conference'-member, Eindhoven City Grid College Cercle Cerise, Copyright Crins & Co, 1995-2002

Frank Crins wrote: || At last weekends Storyline the dreaded rotschreck gave people a || headache again. A Malkavian in a Madness Network equipped with || White Phosphorous Grenade got Immortally Grappled and his || Methusaleh wanted to play a Rotschreck. Is that possible and with || what results? when you are immortaly grappled, you can't use a weapon to strike. You then can't attempt to deal aggravated damage with a white phosphorous grenade. So, unless your malkavian can deal a aggravated hand strike (by using burning wrath of wolf claws or whatever) he CANNOT play rotschreck. The card will stay in his hand.

[ quoted text not captured ] Correct. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

[ quoted text not captured ] I thought with the new wording on Rotschrek, that it gets played on the vampire. Then if Agg damage is played against that vampire, that vampire goes to torpor. So therefore, the card can be played, but will be virtually useless, unless some type of Agg hand damage was whipped out of thin air. An opportunity to card cycle Rotschrek (yes, yes, why would you want to? I know) -- Andy "Slytherin" Brown VEKN Setite Ruler of Cambridge SET awakens, watch out all non-believers

[ quoted text not captured ] Card text: "Put this card on a vampire when an opposing minion attempts to inflict aggravated damage on him or her, ..." [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] I really should not read additional non-existent punctuation on cards. (Now I really do know why I can't play that well!) [ quoted text not captured ]

"reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3dc66a71$0$22821$79c1...@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net>... [ quoted text not captured ] Can the Malkavian play Rotschreck before he is grappled ?

On 4 Nov 2002 15:02:57 -0800, ca...@elam.nl (Graaf Tel) wrote: >Can the Malkavian play Rotschreck before he is grappled ? No. Immortal Grapple is played after range is determined but before strikes are announced. You cannot play the Rotschreck until the strike that does aggravated damage is announced. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Card text: "Put this card on a vampire when an opposing minion > attempts to inflict aggravated damage on him or her, ..." Found this little puzzling info in the monger: > Cannot be played in response to aggravated damage done from "environmental" sources. [RTR 19961113] > > Rotschreck is played when the attempt to use aggravated damage is announced. If the attempt is in the form of a strike, Rotschreck is played during the strike announcement phase (before any damage prevention can be played). It can be played after the other strike is announced, however. [LSJ 19990217] When is aggravated damage from non-environmental sources ever done to a vampire other than by a strike? Is there currently a way to do that? Bleu

"Bleu" <leg...@nospam.generation.net> wrote in message news:Xns92BCEE7...@216.168.3.44... > > When is aggravated damage from non-environmental sources ever done to a > vampire other than by a strike? > Is there currently a way to do that? > The only way I can think of at the moment is if there is a Dawn Operation in effect and a minion plays Pulled Fangs (or Twisting the Knife, but since Twisting the Knife could never be in a deck that was built by any person intelligent enough to play an entire combat without drooling on his cards and ruining them, that would be a very rare situation). Of course, in order to get to that stage of combat, the minion playing the Pulled Fangs would have to have successfully inflicted damage, and the other minion would have to not be in combat, which means he would have had to have changed the damage to non-agg. But in order to change that damage to non-agg without being able to treat *all* damage as non-aggravated damage, he'd have to be Merrill Molitor, I think. So, AFAIK, you would have to block Merrill Molitor, who had been given a Fortitude master, and who played a Dawn Op, and have inflicted a 1 damage strike against him (such as a normal hand strike), which he then changed to non-agg. You then would have had to have prevented *his* damage, or had him dealing 0 damage (by a variety of means, including him playing a Theft of Vitae or having had a Bonecraft played on him). At this point, you could play a Pulled Fangs on him, and would be able to Rotschreck it, if you like. On the other hand, I'm probably forgetting some rather obvious, more reasonable means of applying non-environmental, non-strike agg damage.

"Chris Berger" <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message news:_CIx9.76685$bt.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net... > > Of course, in order to get > to that stage of combat, the minion playing the Pulled Fangs would have to have > successfully inflicted damage, and the other minion would have to not be in > combat, which means he would have had to have changed the damage to non-agg. > Err... switch "not be in combat" to "still be in combat".

thela...@hotmail.com (The Lasombra) wrote in message news:<znednR.nle_...@News.GigaNews.Com>... > On 4 Nov 2002 15:02:57 -0800, ca...@elam.nl (Graaf Tel) wrote: > > >Can the Malkavian play Rotschreck before he is grappled ? > > No. > > Immortal Grapple is played after range is determined but before > strikes are announced. > > You cannot play the Rotschreck until the strike that does aggravated > damage is announced. > Does all non-strike damage counts as enviromental? Or might there be some cases where non-strike damage might be reason enough to play Rötschreck? /Henrik

henrik ericsson wrote: > Does all non-strike damage counts as enviromental? Unless card text says otherwise, non-strike damage is not "inflicted by the minion", yes. [ quoted text not captured ]

Bleu <leg...@nospam.generation.net> wrote in message news:<Xns92BCEE7...@216.168.3.44>... [ quoted text not captured ] What about a Ghoul Retainer using a Flamethrower - that's not a strike. Or a Dawn Op/Weather Control combo... Really I have no idea, just kinda taking a stab in the dark.

Marty wrote: > What about a Ghoul Retainer using a Flamethrower - that's not a > strike. Or a Dawn Op/Weather Control combo... Really I have no idea, > just kinda taking a stab in the dark. Both are examples of "environmental" (i.e., non-strike, non-from-the-minion) damage. [ quoted text not captured ]

"Chris Berger" <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message news:_CIx9.76685$bt.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net... > > So, AFAIK, you would have to block Merrill Molitor, who had been given a > Fortitude master, and who played a Dawn Op, and have inflicted a 1 damage > strike against him (such as a normal hand strike), which he then changed to > non-agg. You then would have had to have prevented *his* damage, or had him > dealing 0 damage (by a variety of means, including him playing a Theft of Vitae > or having had a Bonecraft played on him). At this point, you could play a > Pulled Fangs on him, and would be able to Rotschreck it, if you like. > > On the other hand, I'm probably forgetting some rather obvious, more reasonable > means of applying non-environmental, non-strike agg damage. > Realized you could replace Merrill with any Sabbat vampire with a Fire Dance played on them (and with fortitude). Still not real likely... Has anyone thought up any other scenario? Are there other cards besides Pulled Fangs and Twisting the Knife that deal non-environmental non-strike damage?

"Chris Berger" <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message news:6bfy9.101908$bt.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net... [ quoted text not captured ] This one is quite bizarre and might not even work, but: If you tap Alejandro Aguirre during a combat under Dawn Operation, Alejandro "inflicts" a point of damage (which will be agg) on each combatant. I think this should make each vampire in combat eligible to receive Rotschreck. ("When a minion attempts to inflict aggravated damage on a vampire...") Josh the wrath of god!