LSJ - Shocking stuff

Do Shock Troops count as vampires in the ash heap if burned? Card text states that the discipline cards count as vampires "whilst in play", but does not state if they are out of play. DH Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

In article <900gbf$pj8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, hamd...@my-deja.com wrote: > Do Shock Troops count as vampires in the ash heap if burned? No. They are discipline cards. They cannot be Possessed or count for Mark of the Damned. Same as the Embrace, the 3rd Tradition, and Creation Rites. They are only vampires while in play, while in hand or ash heap they are the type of cards that they are (actions or masters). Carpe Noctem. Lasombra http://lasombra.tripod.com http://legbiter.tripod.com http://vekn_clans.tripod.com [ quoted text not captured ]

<snip> > They are discipline cards. > They cannot be Possessed or count for Mark of the Damned. > Same as the Embrace, the 3rd Tradition, and Creation Rites. > They are only vampires while in play, while in hand or ash heap > they are the type of cards that they are (actions or masters). > Are you sure about Embraces etc.? By card text the Shock Trooped Master cards "represent" 1-cap vampires, whereas The Embrace "becomes" a vampire after you played it from your hand. To me that imples that after the action was taken The Embrace is a vampire in all respects of the game. Is there any ruling / clarification on this point? Regards Skaffen Chantry Elder Of Munich "Our hearts discern wild images of Death, Shadows and shoals that edge eternity." [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <900jd0$s7i$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote: > In article <900gbf$pj8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, > hamd...@my-deja.com wrote: > > Do Shock Troops count as vampires in the ash heap if burned? > > No. > > They are discipline cards. > They cannot be Possessed or count for Mark of the Damned. > Same as the Embrace, the 3rd Tradition, and Creation Rites. > They are only vampires while in play, while in hand or ash heap > they are the type of cards that they are (actions or masters). Well this is super-pants. Another blooming non-concept for Shock Troops. Will SOMEBODY think of something good to do with them! ;) DH [ quoted text not captured ]

skaffen_...@my-deja.com wrote: > > They are discipline cards. > > They cannot be Possessed or count for Mark of the Damned. > > Same as the Embrace, the 3rd Tradition, and Creation Rites. > > They are only vampires while in play, while in hand or ash heap > > they are the type of cards that they are (actions or masters). > > Are you sure about Embraces etc.? By card text the Shock Trooped > Master cards "represent" 1-cap vampires, whereas The Embrace > "becomes" a vampire after you played it from your hand. To me that > imples that after the action was taken The Embrace is a vampire in > all respects of the game. Sure. Until it's burned/leaves play. At which point it forgets everything that happened to it before, as all cards do. The discipline card "becomes" a vampire just as an Embrace does. At some point (in your hand) it is not a vampire. Then later (in play) it is - so there must've been a point at which it "became" the new thing. Non-vampire cards that are sent to the uncontrolled region (via Banishment, for example) are still treated as vampires though. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

<hamd...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:900lle$u7m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com... > In article <900jd0$s7i$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, > The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > In article <900gbf$pj8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, > > hamd...@my-deja.com wrote: > > > Do Shock Troops count as vampires in the ash heap if burned? > > > > No. > > > > They are discipline cards. > > They cannot be Possessed or count for Mark of the Damned. > > Same as the Embrace, the 3rd Tradition, and Creation Rites. > > They are only vampires while in play, while in hand or ash heap > > they are the type of cards that they are (actions or masters). > > > Well this is super-pants. Another blooming non-concept for Shock Troops. > > Will SOMEBODY think of something good to do with them! > > ;) > > DH > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. An idea for a Shock Troops deck: (The deck is not yet tuned so I'll just pass on the idea) Crypt: weenies + 3/4 achbisshops with Potence Concept: weenie rush deck: Ambush or Bum's Rush/ Imm. Grapple/ potence strike/ Disarm I know it 's "degenerate", but the excercise was to make a Shock Troops deck

Jeroen wrote: >>I know it 's "degenerate", but the excercise was to make a Shock Troops deck>> And why would it be "degenerate" exactly? Yes. I am just causing trouble. Peter D Bakija PD...@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/bakija6 "Why so many swords?" "I must kill many." -Kikuchiyo

In article <AXqY5.72389$lR2.2...@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>, [ quoted text not captured ] Who cares about degenerate apart from Andrew? More relevant is whether it works effectively. Is it worth paying the pool for these guys? In my very limited experience of potence rush, the problem is getting the Rush/IG/strike/Disarm cards in hand in the right combination, not having enough minions to use them. Several fragile pot weenies don't seem to add much, while a turn or two of accumulating the discipline cards would surely jam the hand badly. Looking for enlightenment, Tom [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <90tvj4$sj8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] ---> well, Tom it IS very effective as my friend made one : really simple :ambush/ immortal grapple /strike/disarm enough in the deck and it goes fast...frightful really... regards, Steven Van Haezevelde [ quoted text not captured ]

On Sat, 09 Dec 2000 23:44:26 GMT, afterh...@my-deja.com wrote: >---> well, Tom it IS very effective as my friend made one : really >simple :ambush/ immortal grapple /strike/disarm enough in the deck and >it goes fast...frightful really... I don't see it as ever working in a competent environment, myself. You have to have the Master cards in hand to play Shock Troops; if you don't have them in hand early in the game, you're stuck with your one Archbishop. If you put too many Potence masters in, then you're stuck with master hand-jam. Messy. They'll block a few of the first troops, who can't play Disarm because when they get punched for 1 they'll be going to torpor. If someone plays a Lucky Blow, your troop goes to torpor and can't Disarm. If someone plays prevent, your troop has wasted an Ambush/IG/Strike. If someone has a maneuver, your Rush is wasted. There are already many ways to hose up combat; relying on a punch for 2 and a Disarm wouldn't get you very far around here. And if you don't figure out a way to diablerize (at -1 stealth) then you just sit and watch as all the armless people rescue themselves. After every successful Rush, your troops are empty and must hunt; they'll get blocked, and again can't play Disarm because they're going to torpor. I don't see it ever ousting anyone; the Troops can't bleed and you only have the one Archbishop. Include bleed cards and you'll likely end up with those in hand instead of combat. Not very effective. -- Derek Jack-Booted Thug of Atlanta "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." - C. Darwin, 1871

In article <90tvj4$sj8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Tom Kassel <tka...@my-deja.com> writes >Several fragile pot weenies don't >seem to add much, while a turn or two of accumulating the discipline >cards would surely jam the hand badly. Two words: Storage Annex It stops your hand jam, and allows you to get the IG/Disarm/Torn Signpost/Taste combos going too. -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D "It's hard to carry on when you feel all alone. Now I've swung back again, it's worse than it was before. If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor." - James, "Sit Down"

> Well this is super-pants. Another blooming non-concept for Shock Troops. > > Will SOMEBODY think of something good to do with them! > > ;) > > DH > is the obvious answer to use them like they seem to be intended...? as stumbling-block blockers, freeing up the main political and bloody rest of your deck to function. do i need as many wakes if i'm rolling in shock troops? it would sure help against non-stealth decks from the get-go, and perhaps auspex is the best skill for the little ones to possess... also, cards like embrace, anson and others beg to be let into a deck like this... find things for them to do... arson, diablerie and more... spintoy ++_++_++_+ [ quoted text not captured ]