Temporary vs permanent control effects (LSJ?)

I'm pretty sure there's some kind of rule about how temporary and permanent control effects interact, but I can't recall what it would say happens in this case. Say I take control of someone else's vampire (until the end of the next action) with Spirit Marionette. Say someone else then gets control of it with a permanent-control effect, like Malkavian Time Auction or Succubus Club (assume that I did the Spirit Marionette action on my predator's turn with Madness Network). Does the new owner have truly permanent control of the Marionetted vampire, or will the Spirit Marionette return control to the vampire's original controller at the end of the next action? thanks, Josh

>I'm pretty sure there's some kind of rule about >how temporary and permanent control effects >interact, but I can't recall what it would say >happens in this case. Changes in permanent control override temporary control effects. >Say I take control of someone else's vampire (until >the end of the next action) with Spirit Marionette. >Say someone else then gets control of it with a >permanent-control effect, like Malkavian Time >Auction or Succubus Club (assume that I did the >Spirit Marionette action on my predator's turn with >Madness Network). Whoever got it with the Auction or Club gets to keep it. >Does the new owner have truly permanent control of >the Marionetted vampire, Yes. >or will the Spirit >Marionette return control to the vampire's original >controller at the end of the next action? No. See similar questions and rulings specifically regarding a player temporarily taking control of a vampire (Temptation) and then Graverobbing it. Halcyan 2

[ quoted text not captured ] Correct on all points. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"Joshua Duffin" <jtdu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<a6lr15$f6u41$1...@ID-121616.news.dfncis.de>... > Say I take control of someone else's vampire (until > the end of the next action) with Spirit Marionette. > Say someone else then gets control of it with a > permanent-control effect, like Malkavian Time > Auction or Succubus Club (assume that I did the > Spirit Marionette action on my predator's turn with > Madness Network). This only works if you play the Spirit Marionette just before your own turn starts and if no other minion acts before your turn starts, right? Spirit Marionette: [OBE] +1 stealth action. (D) Take control of any ready untapped minion until the end of the next action. That minion must bleed your prey unless he or she must hunt. Card texts reads THE next action, not this minions next action. Or am I to understand that the action referred to on the card is the next action this minion performs? IMO if you take control of a vampire via SM in another methuselah's minion phase (via Madness Network) and any other minion acts before your turn starts, you lose control of the Spirit Marionetted minion, before your turn starts. Thus making this a very tricky combo to pull off succesfully as both Time Auction and Succubus Club only work in your own Untap/Master phase. MW

"martijn" <war...@houdoe.net> wrote in message news:aeb4c2b1.02031...@posting.google.com... > "Joshua Duffin" <jtdu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<a6lr15$f6u41$1...@ID-121616.news.dfncis.de>... > > Say I take control of someone else's vampire (until > > the end of the next action) with Spirit Marionette. > > Say someone else then gets control of it with a > > permanent-control effect, like Malkavian Time > > Auction or Succubus Club (assume that I did the > > Spirit Marionette action on my predator's turn with > > Madness Network). > > This only works if you play the Spirit Marionette just before your own > turn starts and if no other minion acts before your turn starts, > right? Yes, that's right. > Card texts reads THE next action, not this minions next action. Or am > I to understand that the action referred to on the card is the next > action this minion performs? No, you're reading it right. > IMO if you take control of a vampire via SM in another methuselah's > minion phase (via Madness Network) and any other minion acts before > your turn starts, you lose control of the Spirit Marionetted minion, > before your turn starts. Thus making this a very tricky combo to pull > off succesfully as both Time Auction and Succubus Club only work in > your own Untap/Master phase. Correct as far as rules, but I don't think it makes it as tricky as you're thinking. To make it work, you just have to use the last Malkavian acting during your predator's turn to Spirit Marionette someone's vampire. If nobody else at the table has Malkavians who can act via your Madness Network, you're golden (and I'd expect that most of the time, they won't). Nobody without Malkavians is going to have a chance to act before your untap or master phase; your predator's actions are done before you start using the Madness Network, and nobody else gets a turn between your predator and yourself. :-) Josh not ready for prime time, but maybe late-night public access