Temptation/Corruption Question

Hi all, This situation came up recently and i apologize if it's been brought up before. Methuselah A's minions have been placing Corruption counters on Methuselah B's Camille Devereaux. It is Methuselah A's turn and Camille has 1 blood on her and 4 Corruption Counters. Methuselah A's first minion plays a Temptation at superior on Camille and it gains a counter immediately. Methuselah A then has another minion place the 5th Corruption counter on Camille and Methuselah A gains control of her. Can Methuselah A then burn the Temptation Counter and untap her to perform an action that same turn? (Or if she was untapped when the final Corruption was played) Can Methuselah A tap Camille to perform an action and then burn the Temptation counter that he placed on her to untap her and perform another action? Can he keep doing this every turn, provided her keeps her at 1 blood? If the answer to these questions is "yes it is legal", then what is to stop a Methuselah from playing multiple Temptations on one vamp, stealing it via Corruptions and getting 3 or 4 actions per turn out of a vampire that way? Thanks for the info. Mari CARD TEXT: Card Text: Temptation ACTION Serpentis COST: 1 Blood (D) Put this card on a ready vampire; you still control this card. During your master phase, you may put a temptation counter on this card. During your minion phase, if the number of counters on this card equals or exceeds the amount of blood on that vampire, you may burn all the counters on this card to untap that vampire and take control of him or her until the end of your turn. As above, but put a counter on this card when you put it on the vampire.

Mari wrote: > > Hi all, > > This situation came up recently and i apologize if it's been brought > up before. > > Methuselah A's minions have been placing Corruption counters on > Methuselah B's Camille Devereaux. It is Methuselah A's turn and > Camille has 1 blood on her and 4 Corruption Counters. Methuselah A's > first minion plays a Temptation at superior on Camille and it gains a > counter immediately. Methuselah A then has another minion place the > 5th Corruption counter on Camille and Methuselah A gains control of > her. > > Can Methuselah A then burn the Temptation Counter and untap her to > perform an action that same turn? Yes. > (Or if she was untapped when the > final Corruption was played) Can Methuselah A tap Camille to perform > an action and then burn the Temptation counter that he placed on her > to untap her and perform another action? Yes. > Can he keep doing this every > turn, provided her keeps her at 1 blood? If the answer to these Yes. > questions is "yes it is legal", then what is to stop a Methuselah from > playing multiple Temptations on one vamp, stealing it via Corruptions > and getting 3 or 4 actions per turn out of a vampire that way? Nothing. You don't even need the Corruptions - just Tempt one of your own vampires. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

> Nothing. > You don't even need the Corruptions - just Tempt one of your own vampires. Oh, man. the fun you could have with this... :p Sorrow --- "I am Jack's inflamed sense of rejection." - Narrator

> Can Methuselah A then burn the Temptation Counter and untap her to > perform an action that same turn? (Or if she was untapped when the > final Corruption was played) Can Methuselah A tap Camille to perform > an action and then burn the Temptation counter that he placed on her > to untap her and perform another action? Can he keep doing this every > turn, provided her keeps her at 1 blood? If the answer to these > questions is "yes it is legal", then what is to stop a Methuselah from > playing multiple Temptations on one vamp, stealing it via Corruptions > and getting 3 or 4 actions per turn out of a vampire that way? I'm almost positive that the answer to your question is yes (I've asked before, gotten the answer and promptly forgot it...... but that's another story) this is a legal play. I've done it before and have always played it this way. Why isn't it broken? Obviously it's a good combination. However the most common occasion this will occur is with a vampire around 2-4 capacity. This vampire generally won't have the disciplines you are using. So what can they do? Bleed obviously, call a vote (though most Settite decks I know that use corruption aren't the voting kind), equip an item, recruit an ally (not likely unless they too are a Settite) or hunt (not exactly productive). You can use the Temptation as a free untap too. The most the extra minion (Camille in this case) is bleed for 1, untap and sit there as a blocker with 1 blood. Not exactly overpowering in my books since in this case you took 6 actions to set this up. My point is that the extra minion can't really do too much unless it has presence, obfuscate, or is a Settite. I'd much rather have my temptation on a second minion so that I can deprive my opponent of more minions. BTW, the same circumstance can occur with Form of Corruption and Temptation..... Jeff Dai

There's nothing to stop you from playing Temptation on your own minions to get multiple actions a turn, it's incredibly cheezy but you can do it. You cannot enter combat with your own minions [6.4] but you can (D) action them ( unless the (D) action results in a combat ). You can also place and use multiple Temptations on the same minion, it's quite common, esp when it's on 1 blood. You can also use the Temptation at any time during your minion phase. Remeber, however, that the NRA rule applies ( if your playing with it ) to the multiple actions if you use multiple Temptations in a turn. "Mari" <tink...@geocities.com> wrote in message news:86a54eb0.01101...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ]

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3BCF2060...@white-wolf.com... > You don't even need the Corruptions - just Tempt one of your own vampires. Can an Aabbt Kindred you control perform this action on your own vampires if Nefertiti is not in play? Since Directed actions targeting yourself become undirected, I thought I might ask. [From 6.2.2. Resolve Any Block Attempts If the action targets another Methuselah (or something controlled by another Methuselah), then the action is called directed, and the Methuselah who is the target (or controls the target) of the action may use her ready untapped minions to attempt to block the action. If the action is not directed at another Methuselah (or at something controlled by another Methuselah), then the action is called undirected* and can be blocked by the acting Methuselah's prey or predator, with the prey getting the first opportunity to block. ] -Mike Ooi

>> You don't even need the Corruptions - just Tempt one of your own vampires. > >Can an Aabbt Kindred you control perform this action on your own vampires if >Nefertiti is not in play? Since Directed actions targeting yourself become >undirected, I thought I might ask. Yes the snakes can. As you said, if it's "directed" at your own stuff, then it's considered "undirected." Halcyan 2

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> a écrit dans le message news: 3BCF2060...@white-wolf.com... > You don't even need the Corruptions - just Tempt one of your own vampires. Seems illogical, captain. When do you plan errata / clarification on this one ? reyda

LSJ >> Reyda > >> You don't even need the Corruptions - just Tempt one of your own vampires. > Seems illogical, captain. When do you plan errata / clarification on this > one ? When it starts winning tournaments. How much damage to your prey do you think you can do on one blood with the No Repeat Actions tournament rule in place? Yes, a challenge. You win a tournament by tempting your own vampires, then we'll work on getting Scott to put some errata in place. Temptation is about working a minion's interests / addictions / habits against them, by making them do things for you to fulfill their own needs. If a particular vampire you already control has interests / addictions / habits that you as a Methuselah can manipulate to get him to do more things for you each turn, more power to you. Don't forget how large a target you are putting on that vampire's head, as your prey really doesn't want you to Night Moves bleed and then play Enticement with the same vampire every turn. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com -- Posted from rr-163-54-196.atl.mediaone.net [24.163.54.196] via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

LSJ wrote: > > Nothing. > You don't even need the Corruptions - just Tempt one of your own vampires. > Last time I looked the Temptation action was a D action and as far as I know you cannot take D actions against yourself. Correct me if I'm wrong. Raille

You can, the rulebook even says that if you do the action becomes undirected. You cannot however enter combat with your own minions ( so you can't Bum's Rush yourself ). "Raille" <rai...@mich.com> wrote in message news:3BD3E9CB...@mich.com... [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <3BD3E9CB...@mich.com>, Raille <rai...@mich.com> writes >Last time I looked the Temptation action was a D action and as far as I >know you cannot take D actions against yourself. > >Correct me if I'm wrong. You're wrong. This makes the last time you looked prior to the 7/7/98 changes and NJL split, which seems somehow odd. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D And if it's all right, I'd kind've like to be your lover EBD690ECD7A1F 'Cause when you're with me I can't help but be B457CA213D7E6 So desperately, uncontrollably happy 68C3695D623D5D

"The Lasombra" <thela...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message news: e54bc5c5328c1bad899...@mygate.mailgate.org... > LSJ >> > Reyda > > > >> You don't even need the Corruptions - just Tempt one of your own vampires. > > > Seems illogical, captain. When do you plan errata / clarification on this > > one ? > > When it starts winning tournaments. > > How much damage to your prey do you think you can do on one blood with > the No Repeat Actions tournament rule in place? > > Yes, a challenge. > > You win a tournament by tempting your own vampires, then we'll > work on getting Scott to put some errata in place. > > Temptation is about working a minion's interests / addictions / habits against > them, by making them do things for you to fulfill their own needs. > If a particular vampire you already control has interests / addictions / habits > that you as a Methuselah can manipulate to get him to do more things for > you each turn, more power to you. Don't forget how large a target > you are putting on that vampire's head, as your prey really doesn't > want you to Night Moves bleed and then play Enticement with the same vampire > every turn. Your explanation is perfect =) thank you Lasombra ! reyda

James Coupe wrote: > > In message <3BD3E9CB...@mich.com>, Raille <rai...@mich.com> writes > >Last time I looked the Temptation action was a D action and as far as I > >know you cannot take D actions against yourself. > > > >Correct me if I'm wrong. > > You're wrong. > > This makes the last time you looked prior to the 7/7/98 changes and NJL > split, which seems somehow odd. > I've been trying to keep up lately, but the D against your own minions just seems wrong somehow. Raille

In message <3BD4CE0E...@mich.com>, Raille <rai...@mich.com> writes: >> This makes the last time you looked prior to the 7/7/98 changes and NJL >> split, which seems somehow odd. > >I've been trying to keep up lately, but the D against your own minions >just seems wrong somehow. It's not (D) action, it's undirected when against your own minions. However, as I say, this was established three years ago just prior to the NJL split. I would have hoped the NJL understood what they were splitting *from*. [ quoted text not captured ]

Chill out James, There are a number of established players that don't have everything down pat like you do. Dave was asking a simple question, which has absolutely nothing to do with the NJL. There are plenty loopholes in V:TES which don't make sense to me either, but you don't see me going postal.. Bernie Bresnahan [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <20011023105152...@mb-ma.aol.com>, BernieTime <berni...@aol.com> writes: >Dave was asking a simple question, which has absolutely nothing >to do with the NJL. There are plenty loopholes in V:TES which don't >make sense to me either, but you don't see me going postal.. Did you see me going postal? I'd recalibrate your postal sensors. [ quoted text not captured ]

James Coupe wrote: > > It's not (D) action, it's undirected when against your own minions. > > However, as I say, this was established three years ago just prior to > the NJL split. I would have hoped the NJL understood what they were > splitting *from*. I just missed a small detail. People can miss things. However to correct your sentence above. It is a D action, and becomes undirected when against your own minions. Raille

[ quoted text not captured ] No. It *is* (not "becomes") an undirected action when against your own. It is only D when directed against other methuselahs. [6.2.2.1] [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ wrote: > > It is a D action, and becomes undirected when against your own minions. > > No. It *is* (not "becomes") an undirected action when against your own. > It is only D when directed against other methuselahs. [6.2.2.1] > And this is different from what I said how? Result is a D action against another players minion and undirected at your own. Sorry to be so snippy. But the trivial change in wording is unwarrented by the very rules you quote. [ser] (D) Put this card on a ready vampire; you still control this card. 6.2.2.1 says if I direct an action vs my own minions it is undirected, thus the (D) above become undirected. Now why don't we just leave off, since we already agree that the action is both a D or unD action based on the selected target. Raille

Raille wrote: > > LSJ wrote: > > > It is a D action, and becomes undirected when against your own minions. > > > > No. It *is* (not "becomes") an undirected action when against your own. > > It is only D when directed against other methuselahs. [6.2.2.1] > > > > And this is different from what I said how? "not 'becomes'" - the directedness of a given action doesn't change (unless the target or control of the target changes). [ quoted text not captured ]