[lsj] question: increased strength after superior Immortal Grapple?

Situation: Agatha is in combat. Round 1, close range, Agatha plays superior Immortal Grapple. Determine Range step will be skipped on Round 2. Agatha successfully presses to Round 2. Round 2. Agatha's controller has top-decked an Increased Strength, playable only before range is chosen. Question: Is Agatha's controller unable to play the Increased Strength in the second round of combat? Since there is no "Determine Range" step, is there no "before range is determined" step? thanks in advance, dancingmummy

"dancingmummy" <mummydi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:704f42d0.03082...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] he is able to do so : there is no "determine range step", technically, but there is still a window for "at the beginning of the round of combat" stuff. Increased strength is played before range is chosen , so it falls in this "at the beginning of the round" category ;)

dancingmummy wrote: > Agatha is in combat. > Round 1, close range, Agatha plays superior Immortal Grapple. > Determine Range step will be skipped on Round 2. Agatha successfully > presses to Round 2. > > Round 2. Agatha's controller has top-decked an Increased Strength, > playable only before range is chosen. > > Question: > Is Agatha's controller unable to play the Increased Strength in the > second round of combat? Since there is no "Determine Range" step, is Yes. > there no "before range is determined" step? Negative. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:48:13 -0400, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> scrawled: >dancingmummy wrote: >> Question: >> Is Agatha's controller unable to play the Increased Strength in the >> second round of combat? Since there is no "Determine Range" step, is > >Yes. In another thread a while back I was checking to see if range-setters prevented the play of 'before range' cards. You responded that 'before range' cards could still be played if range had been set. Now, you have said 'yes' to the qn 'Is Agatha's controller UNable to play the Increased Strength', which seems to contradict the earlier ruling. Did you just read 'unable' as 'able'? >> there no "before range is determined" step? > >Negative. I think a more complete sentence here would really help me know what you meant at this hour of the morning. :) salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm

salem wrote: > On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:48:13 -0400, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> > scrawled: > > >>dancingmummy wrote: >> >>>Question: >>>Is Agatha's controller unable to play the Increased Strength in the >>>second round of combat? Since there is no "Determine Range" step, is >> >>Yes. > > > In another thread a while back I was checking to see if range-setters > prevented the play of 'before range' cards. You responded that 'before > range' cards could still be played if range had been set. > > Now, you have said 'yes' to the qn 'Is Agatha's controller UNable to > play the Increased Strength', which seems to contradict the earlier > ruling. > Did you just read 'unable' as 'able'? Yes. > >>>there no "before range is determined" step? >> >>Negative. > > I think a more complete sentence here would really help me know what > you meant at this hour of the morning. :) Negative questions are problematic in English, yes. The hypothesis that there is no "before range is determined" step is not true. [ quoted text not captured ]

> Negative questions are problematic in English, yes. > The hypothesis that there is no "before range is determined" step is not true. So Salem is right and you CAN play an Increased STR or whatever other before range is determined cards even if you do skip that phase. This question came up quite a few times now, mainly associated with High Ground, Sniper Rifle and Storm Sewers. Maybe the rulebook deserves an update on this?

[ quoted text not captured ] The ruling has existed since [RTR 03-SEP-1994]: skipping the determine range step doesn't mean that the "before range is determined" step is skipped. [ quoted text not captured ]