change of target/tel vote counting ?

These two cards cancel an action. What happens to the action/vote card played, is it returned to hand? What about other cards played or tapped in play in reaction to the canceled action? Are they burned/tapped or unafected? T

Talo...@hotmail.com wrote: > [Change of Target and Telepathic Vote Counting] cancel an action. > What happens to the action/vote card played, is it returned to hand? No. Card text says nothing about returning any cards to the hand. > What about other cards played or tapped in play in reaction to the > canceled action? Are they burned/tapped or unafected? Any cards already played are played. Any cards/minions tapped remain tapped (except as indicated by card text). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

In article <960kir$ltk$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Talo...@hotmail.com wrote: > > [Change of Target and Telepathic Vote Counting] cancel an action. > > What happens to the action/vote card played, is it returned to hand? > > No. Card text says nothing about returning any cards to the hand. > > > What about other cards played or tapped in play in reaction to the > > canceled action? Are they burned/tapped or unafected? > > Any cards already played are played. Any cards/minions tapped remain > tapped (except as indicated by card text). This is why Business Pressure/Telepathic Vote Counting is one of my all-time favorite combos in the game. Everyone gets to voluntarily spend pool for no reason! John Baker [ quoted text not captured ]

On Fri, 09 Feb 2001 11:33:47 GMT, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >Talo...@hotmail.com wrote: >> [Change of Target and Telepathic Vote Counting] cancel an action. >> What happens to the action/vote card played, is it returned to hand? > >No. Card text says nothing about returning any cards to the hand. > >> What about other cards played or tapped in play in reaction to the >> canceled action? Are they burned/tapped or unafected? > >Any cards already played are played. Any cards/minions tapped remain >tapped (except as indicated by card text). > *sigh* No wonder I never see these cards played then. T

In article <3a875df0.95118878@news>, <Talo...@hotmail.com> wrote: >On Fri, 09 Feb 2001 11:33:47 GMT, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: [LSJ dixit:] >>Any cards already played are played. Any cards/minions tapped remain >>tapped (except as indicated by card text). >*sigh* >No wonder I never see these cards played then. D'you mean you don't find 'em useful? We just had a few threads discussing how Absolutely Cool Change of Target is, for instance. Flushes out Wakes and transient intercept beautifully, though you do have to design a deck to take maximum advantage (lots of distinct +1 stealth actions). Superior Govern gets Wake/Intercepted? Change of Target, call a vote. And so on. No good versus untapped minions with permanent intercept, but still amazingly good for a disciplineless card. Great for Gypsies, for instance, and another argument against making Gypsies non-unique (to hark back to an old discussion). Telepathic Vote Counting, of course, is instrumental in the Presence-free, weenie/seizure-free, KRC/ConAg-free competitive[*] vote deck I made a few years back in response to a direct challenge from, I think, Sorrow. This was pre-Sabbat War, so I didn't have access to the !Ventrue, which would have made the whole enterprise a bit easier, to be sure. gomi *if i recall correctly, the challenge was to get even a single VP with such a deck, which i did manage. it may have swept once, but i might be confusing it with another stupid vote deck. curse deja for not having full archives. -- Individually, I love you all with affection unspeakable; but, collectively, I look upon you with a disgust that amounts to absolute detestation. - Gilbert and Sullivan, 'Pirates of Penzance'

On 9 Feb 2001 22:34:23 GMT, go...@best.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote: >In article <3a875df0.95118878@news>, <Talo...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>On Fri, 09 Feb 2001 11:33:47 GMT, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > >[LSJ dixit:] > >>>Any cards already played are played. Any cards/minions tapped remain >>>tapped (except as indicated by card text). > >>*sigh* > >>No wonder I never see these cards played then. > >D'you mean you don't find 'em useful? We just had a few threads discussing >how Absolutely Cool Change of Target is, for instance. Flushes out Wakes >and transient intercept beautifully, But then its really just a strike:combat ends card for the masses. T

[ quoted text not captured ] No, because you untap after Change of Target, which only superior Majesty and Earth Meld permit you to do currently. And you don't have to enter combat, so you aren't vulnerable to things like Weather Control, Thoughts Betrayed, Obedience, Immortal Grapple, etc. Do not underestimate Change of Target. ;) And Telepathic Vote Counting should be one of the backbones of a Toreador vote deck... they are LOADED with superior Auspex, especially on two of their cheap Princes (Tatiana, Marcellus). -- Derek "Oh, cool... TABLE ACTIONS!" -- M. Perlman

In article <3a8b754e.4552168@news>, <Talo...@hotmail.com> wrote: >But then its really just a strike:combat ends card for the masses. I'm not sure I often see 'just' in front of an effect as strong as strike:combat ends. Change of Target is a little different from SCE, as you can only play it when you're acting, and (unlike vanilla SCE) untaps you (as well as the blocker). Plus it stops the blocker from playing pre-strike combat cards since you never actually get into combat. Purely defensive card, but a damn fine one. gomi [ quoted text not captured ]

On 10 Feb 2001 00:01:51 GMT, go...@best.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote: >In article <3a8b754e.4552168@news>, <Talo...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >>But then its really just a strike:combat ends card for the masses. > >I'm not sure I often see 'just' in front of an effect as strong as >strike:combat ends. Change of Target is a little different from SCE, >as you can only play it when you're acting, and (unlike vanilla SCE) >untaps you (as well as the blocker). Plus it stops the blocker from >playing pre-strike combat cards since you never actually get into >combat. Purely defensive card, but a damn fine one. > >gomi > > I say 'just' because I thought you would be able to take the action card back into your hand if the action is cancelled. Would make the card vastly different from sce, and more useful. T

It's also fun to use Change of Target after stacking 5 or so Camarilla Exemplaries on a vampire. "You block? Okay burn 5 blood. Umm...I change my mind, you can untap now." -Brian <Talo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3a8c88ff.9593661@news... [ quoted text not captured ]

On Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:14:14 GMT, "Brian Reed" <cap...@austin.rr.com> wrote: >It's also fun to use Change of Target after stacking 5 or so Camarilla >Exemplaries on a vampire. "You block? Okay burn 5 blood. Umm...I change >my mind, you can untap now." > Thats silly. Do you like to stack 5 blood dolls on vamps too? As I see it, you cant make an exemplary and exemplary exemplary. But the concept of 'cause harm, then cancel action' is sound. Its this particular application which is rather cheddar like. Your whiskers are showing Brian. ;) T

>It's also fun to use Change of Target after stacking 5 or so Camarilla >Exemplaries on a vampire. "You block? Okay burn 5 blood. Umm...I change >my mind, you can untap now." Actually, it's even better with Aching Beauty since the Methusaleh loses pool instead. Aching Beauty + Change of Target and Majesty can make quite an effective weenie Toreador Presence deck. There have been a few posted here and there and I'm actually working on my own version of it as we speak... Halcyan 2

<Talo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3a918a8d.75538140@news... > On Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:14:14 GMT, "Brian Reed" <cap...@austin.rr.com> > wrote: > > >It's also fun to use Change of Target after stacking 5 or so Camarilla > >Exemplaries on a vampire. "You block? Okay burn 5 blood. Umm...I change > >my mind, you can untap now." > > > Thats silly. > Do you like to stack 5 blood dolls on vamps too? Never tried....Hmmm Amadeo + Feeding Razor + Inbase? > As I see it, you cant make an exemplary and exemplary exemplary. Sure you can. There's nothing that says its not stackable. So they either take a bleed for 5 via Dom or Pre, or lose 5 blood off a vamp. At which point I either Change of Target, or Burning Wrath them. > But the concept of 'cause harm, then cancel action' is sound. Its > this particular application which is rather cheddar like. Well, to admit, I was trying to make a deck out of 3 boxes of Jyhad and had opened up about 10,000 Camarilla Exemplaries and wnated them to actually see play. > Your whiskers are showing Brian. ;) Thise must've been some other whiskers peeking out of my mouth, now that I have a big guilty grin and mouse-flavored breath. :-) -Brian

"Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20010210170250...@ng-fi1.aol.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Yes, but Aching Beauty Costs Pool, and is only usable on a Toreador. Cam Exemp, you can actually use to Gain Pool via Bewitching & Voter Cap. Also, you can play as many a turn as you have Cam vamps, so it gets running a lot quicker than the 1 Aching Beauty a turn if you happen to get it in hand before your master phase. But I still like the idea. And, like I said in the above post, I wanted Cam Exemp to see play (never had before). > Halcyan 2 -Brian

> > <Talo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3a918a8d.75538140@news... >> On Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:14:14 GMT, "Brian Reed" <cap...@austin.rr.com> >> wrote: >> >>> It's also fun to use Change of Target after stacking 5 or so Camarilla >>> Exemplaries on a vampire. "You block? Okay burn 5 blood. Umm...I > change >>> my mind, you can untap now." >>> >> Thats silly. >> Do you like to stack 5 blood dolls on vamps too? > Never tried....Hmmm Amadeo + Feeding Razor + Inbase? Oo! Oo! I have! Actually, I've never gotten the hunt for 4 with 4 blood dolls. I've had 4 Blood Dolls on him in one game, and hunted for 4 in other games, but never all at once. I have had him hunt-for-3 with 3 Blood Dolls on him for several turns in a row, though, in several games. I've metioned this deck before, but never posted it: Here's the thing in all it's stupid glory: Deck name: I'm a Day-O Created by: Patrick OShea Description: au/pr/ob votey decky thingy Crypt: (12 cards) [Min: 27, Max: 35, Avg: 7.83] 3 Amadeo (Nosferatu, 8, an au OB PO pr, Primogen) 1 Cornelius Ottavio (Malkavian, 8, AU OB pr qu) 2 Dr. Jest (Malkavian, 8, au do fo OB pr, Primogen) 1 Leandro (Malkavian, 11, AU ce do OB PR, Inner Circle) 1 Lena Rowe (Pander, 3, au ob pr) 2 Miranda Sanova (Brujah, 8, au CE ob po PR, Primogen) 2 Sylvester Simms (Malkavian, 8, an AU do OB pr, Primogen) Recently, I've actually replaced 1 Amadeo with one Greta Kircher, because she's so perfect for this deck. Vote at stealth with Bribes and BewOr usually makes a vote pass by a LOT. VoterCap onto Greta is almost like having it all go to your pool, since as you get bled you can peel it off of her one at a time. Library: (77 cards) Master (17) 1 Auspex 1 Barrens, The 7 Blood Doll 1 Elysium: The Arboretum 1 Elysium: The Palace of Versailles 1 Inbase Discotek, Frankfurt 1 Information Highway 1 Metro Underground 1 Parthenon, The 1 Presence 1 Sudden Reversal Minion (60) 2 .44 Magnum 1 Aaron's Feeding Razor 2 Ancilla Empowerment 4 Behind You! 5 Bewitching Oration 4 Bribes 2 Charming Lobby 1 Consanguineous Boon 1 Disputed Territory 2 Enhanced Senses 3 Forgotten Labyrinth 1 Kindred Segregation 4 Kine Resources Contested 4 Lost in Crowds 5 Majesty 1 Palatial Estate 1 Peace Treaty 1 Political Stranglehold 1 Rumors of Gehenna 2 Spirit's Touch 2 Telepathic Misdirection 2 Telepathic Vote Counting 3 Voter Captivation 6 Wake with Evening's Freshness It's actually run out of cards twice playing it, but that usually meant I had an Aaron's Feeding Razor and Inbase, several Blood Dolls, at least one of the guns, and 3 or 4 minions, so despite "the worst thing that could ever happen is to run out of cards," it's never bothered me much. Hm. I've tweaked the deck a bit since designing it, and tried to put in the changes from memory, but I'm not sure it's exactly as I play it these days. Pretty close. I just added one Saturday Night Special and one more vote (usually have blocked votes now and again, so I have BO/Bribes/VoterCap to spare). It was originally a "make a deck using Amadeo" kind of challenge, but turned out to be a fun, not-too-ineffective deck. The best part was the crypt of aus/obf/pre Primogen that you never see played. Never had any contesting problems, that's for sure! (though, I've come close with Greta Kircher, who sees a LOT of play in our group these days.) -- Pat Ricochet Soul Jar'rn Fool of Atlanta