VEKN Salubri Antitribu Newsletter - Dec 2005

SALUBRI ANTITRIBU NEWSLETTER Volume 2, Issue 1 December 2005 Author: Mercuriel =================================================== TABLE OF CONTENTS I. Introduction II. New !Salubri Cards III. New Valeren Cards IV.New Vampires V. Laibon VI.Sign Off =================================================== I. INTRODUCTION The Salubri Antitribu have received some big boosts with the release of Legacies of Blood. I'm sure everyone is working on updating their !Salubri deck as we speak. I unfortunately won't be able to do that any time soon. I will have to settle with discussing our new tools here, and encouraging the rest of you to go forth and use them. =================================================== II. New !Salubri Cards We have several new clan specific cards: The first 2 are masters: -- Blooding by the Code C Master put this card on a !salubri you control. this !salubri gains 1 level of val and +1 strength and 1 capacity. only 1 BbtC cost is 1 pool -- This is basically our much needed Master Discipline:Valeren, with 1 pool cost and +1 strength. Superior Valeren has improved as well, so I rate this card highly. -- The Path of Retribution R Unique Master Requires !Salubri 1 pool Put this card in play. Salubri antitribu burn 1 less blood when playing cards that require Valeren. Any minion may burn this card as a D action; if that minion is a vampire, he or she takes 1 damage (damage not preventable) when this card is burned. -- Awe some. Valeren features a LOT of 1 cost cards that our low capacity Salubri can ill afford to pay for. All of those cards switching from 1 to 0 cost can make all the difference in the world. I see this card becoming crucial, and encouraging !Salubri decks to wall up a bit so as to defend it. The last !Salubri Card is a useful new action -- Brother in Arms U action 1 pool Salubri antitribu +1 stealth action. Requires a ready, non-sterile Salubri antitribu with capacity above 2. Put this card in play; it becomes a 2-capacity, non-unique Salubri-antitribu with basic Valeren. Move 1 blood from the acting vampire to this vampire. This vampire cannot act this turn. During your untap phase, if you control more ready Brother in Arms than ready unique Salubri antitribu, burn the excess ready Brother in Arms. -- !Salubri decks tend toward the weenie side, this gives them the ability to pop out more of their friends. It's self limiting, so you can't have too many of these puppies. Rather then have to hunt with this new vampire, he borrows a blood when he is embraced and has to remain an untapped blocker. =================================================== III. New Valeren Cards First off we have a spectacular new reaction -- Aversion C Reaction Celerity Valeren 1 Blood [cel] Reduce a bleed against you by 1 [val] burn X pool to reduce a bleed against you by 2X+1 [VAl] Only usable when a minion is bleeding you for 1 or more. Put this card on the acting minion. You still control this card. This minion gets -1 bleed when bleeding you. Any minion may burn this card as a +1 stealth (D) action -- Permanent bleed reduction as a reaction. With the path out it's free. Even at basic it's a useful bleed reduction. If you're playing a wall deck you can then defend these puppies. Next we have some good actions. -- Sense Death action Valeren/Animalism +1 stealth action. [ani] (D) Enter combat with a younger vampire. [val] (D) Enter combat with any minion. This acting vampire gets an optional press during this combat. [VAL] As [val] above, and this acting vampire gets an optional maneuver during this combat. -- At stealth, enter combat with any minion, press at basic, maneuver too at superior. One of the best enter combat cards yet printed. - Shadow Of Taint R Action [dom] (D) Move a card played by another Methuselah on an ally in your ready region to another ally [val] as [dom] above, or move a card played by another Methuselah on a vampire in your ready region to another minion on whom the card could be played. That minion cannot be a vampire older than the vampire with the card. [VAL] As [val] above, and this action is at +1 stealth. - I'm sure this card is very useful. I'm don't know what card's will most be bothering your minions, but I'm sure someone will be able to tell me why this card is a saving grace. Then we have our combat cards - Armor of Caine's Fury C Combat 1 blood [pre] Prevent 1 damage [val] Only usable before range is determined. This vampire may prevent 1 damage from the opposing minion's strikes each round. Frenzy cards cannot be played on this vampire; cancel the effects of any Frenzy cards that already have been played on this vampire this combat. [VAL] As [val] above, but this vampire may prevent 2 damage from the opposing minion's strikes each round. - !Salubri often depend on their weapons. Most of the commonly seen cards that prevent us from using our weapons are frenzies. So here we have a perfect defense against an unwanted drawing out the beast. The damage prevention is wonderful for any val weenies (read Brothers in Arms) that don't have access to fortitude. Damage prevention you have to use before range will often be wasted, but that beats a wasted weenie. Our last library card is a Valeren Auspex combo card. - Eye of Unforgiving Heaven U combat Valeren Auspex val/aus: Strike 2R aggravated damage to all vampires, demons allies and demon retainers in combat. If this striking vampire is burned during the resolution of this strike, you gain 2 pool. VAL/AUS: As above, but the damage done to this striking vampire is normal, not aggravated. - Kind of an impressive card huh? This gives us the ranged strikes we were otherwise severely lacking. I'll bet there are even circumstances where you'll welcome a burnt !Salubri for the 2 pool. =================================================== IV. New Vampires The group 2 !Salubri were very low capacity. There were just enough of them you could make a deck, but the only discipline you could count on was val. After val it was hard to count on any fortitude or auspex. Some even spent a slot on animalism. All !Salubri decks gained access to this formidable new group 3 vamp: - Dela Eden Salubri antitribu Group 3 8 capacity cel dom AUS FOR VAL Laibon: +1 strength - An intimidating Laibon. The only !Salubri with mastery of the clan disciplines, and +1 strength to boot. Dela might even be useful in some other clans AUS FOR deck. If you want alternatives to our prior group 2 bunching, we have some less weenie alternatives in group 4. The all have fortitude and valeren. - Rashiel Salubri antitribu 3-cap Group 4 val for Sabbat. - What we wanted before in a weenie, for val. - Nkechi Salubri antitribu 4-cap Group 4 val aus for Laibon:When Nkechi is in combat she may burn a blood before range is determined on the first round to allow you to look at the opposing minion's controller's hand. - Basic in the clan disciplines, a free special, and Laibon. With half the new !Salubri being Laibon you may want to consider including some Laibon specifics. - Aredhel Salubri antitribu 5 cap aus FOR VAL Sabbat. Black Hand. - Awesome. Exactly the disciplines we want, and it sure doesn't hurt to be Black Hand. Perhaps there are possibilities in a Black Hand !Salubri deck? - Langa Salubri antitribu 5cap G4 for VAL Laibon:langa may enter combat with a vampire controlled by another Methuselah as a (D) action - Langa pays 2 discipline slots for her special, but built in rush sounds worth it to me. We partly pay for the rush by sacrificing auspex. If this vampire is always tapped having just burnt an opposing minion, we won't miss the aus too much. And Langa is another Laibon. There is one legendary vampire who is technically not Salubri Antitribu. He is beyond such petty distinctions as Antitribu, having recently claimed total control of the body of the usurper. - Saulot, the Wanderer Group: 4 Clan: Salubri Capacity: 11 AUS dai FOR OBE THA VAL Independent: All damage inflicted on Saulot by baali is reduced to 0. During your untap phase you can move up to 2 blood from Saulot to any vampire in your controlled or uncontrolled region. +1 Bleed. +1 Strength. Scarce. - When I first saw this spoiler I assumed it to be a hoax. They couldn't possibly print Saulot, one of the original antediluvians? Seeing the art helped convince me: http://gallery.shadownessence.com/details.php?image_id=1662&s=6ee849a4b49e2f5fd159f778ea8a3489 His weakness, (a mere 11 capacity!) can be explained by the fact he is stuck in Tremere's old body. Saulot may seem humbler then some other 11 caps out there. Being able to pump blood back to your uncontrolled suggests building a bloat deck out of him. With his discipline spread he would be a tough wall to tear down too. The inferior daimonion pretty much confirms he has had some dealings with the baali. He's not infernal though (which also means he can't use many of the cool daimonion cards). I'm not sure what to do with this critter, but I'm sure we'll think of something. Notice he has a very similar discipline spread to Nergal... If you want to include more Laibon only cards perhaps you'll want to include: - Solomon Batanea Harbinger of Skulls FOR AUS nec Capacity: 5 Laibon Group: 4 Ability: If Solomon is ready, you may spend transfers to move blood from your prey's uncontrolled vampires to your prey's pool at a cost of two transfers for each blood moved. - FOR AUS in common for our !Salubri decks, a Laibon, and something to do with leftover transfers. =================================================== V. Laibon 2 of our new !Salubri are Laibon. It is entirely possible to make a Laibon !Salubri deck. Especially with - Mozambique Allure Action Requires a ready Laibon or untitled vampire. +1 stealth action. If this acting vampire is Laibon, move the top card of your crypt to your uncontrolled region. Otherwise, this vampire becomes Laibon, and he or she untaps if he or she is Akunanse, Guruhi, Ishtarri, Osebo, Assamite, Follower of Set, Ravnos, Lasombra, Tzimisce, Harbinger of Skulls, or Salubri antitribu. - I really like this card. It gives you a reason to be Laibon (you can transfer out of your crypt as a +1 stealth action) and for us !Salubri it allows us to become Laibon and untap doing it. The other Laibon card I would like to mention is - Kerrie Equipment Pool Cost: 1 Melee weapon. Requires a Laibon. Strength+1 damage each strike. Alternatively, inflict strength ranged damage as a strike and, after strike resolution, turn this weapon face down (out of play) until the end of the action. - With this we don't especially need to bother with maneuvers anymore. It allows us to do a ranged melee weapon strike. You can thus use your Kerrie of Righteous Vengeance to do a ranged aggravated melee strike. =================================================== VI.Sign Off I'm not likely to be testing any of these cards any time soon, so I didn't construct a deck. I'm afraid I'm going to have to leave that as a homework assignment. It would be easy enough to just add Dela Eden and some Blooding by the Code, Path of Retribution, Brother in Arms, Aversion, Sense Death and Armor of Caine's Fury to your existing !Salubri deck. These seem like no brainers to me. Let me know how that turns out. -Mercuriel

Hm, what sect are Brothers in Arms? The card says nothing.

hch...@kolumbus.fi wrote: > Hm, what sect are Brothers in Arms? The card says nothing. Then they take the default sect of !Salubri, which should be Sabbat. John

You forgot some other Laibon cards worth including in a !Salubri deck: Powerbase: Tshwane Just requires ONE Laibon !Salubri, and pays for the weapons, the Brothers in Arms, and, well, just all your cards that cost pool :-) Mbare Market, Harare Your own Ecoterrorists, costing one more pool, but can be played in the first turn. Mind that half the G3/4 !Salubri are Laibons. Strange Day One unblockable action. 1 in every Laibon deck. Just imagine: Unblockable Blessing of the Name, equipping, or Sense the Death of the most dangerous vampire ;-) just my two cents.

Yeah I was wondering about that for a bit but this is what I assumed as well. So if a Laibon summons a Brother in Arms the Brother is Sabbat. -Mercuriel

> > IV. New Vampires <snip> > Aredhel > Salubri antitribu > 5 cap > aus FOR VAL > Sabbat. Black Hand. > - > Awesome. Exactly the disciplines we want, and it sure doesn't hurt to > be Black Hand. Perhaps there are possibilities in a Black Hand > !Salubri > deck? > > - > Langa > Salubri antitribu > 5cap G4 > for VAL > Laibon:langa may enter combat with a vampire controlled by another > Methuselah as a (D) action > - > Langa pays 2 discipline slots for her special, but built in rush sounds > worth it to me. We partly pay for the rush by sacrificing auspex. If > this vampire is always tapped having just burnt an opposing minion, we > won't miss the aus too much. And Langa is another Laibon. > They still have the same problem they always had: not enough Superior aus. What does even a VAL FOR vamp do against S:CE? AUS gives you acces to Telepathic Tracking (and bounce too).

Powerbase: Tshwane does indeed rock, and would lead the !Salubri deck to wall up further. I'm not sure what I think of Mbare Market, Harare. 3 pool is an expensive location, even for a wall deck. I'm also not sure what I think of Strange Day. 2 blood is a lot to pay, and I figure most of the time we are either looking for a fight, or taking an action to get blood back. When I started writing the newsletter I thought we had 2 Laibon !Salubri. Really 2 of the 4 group 4, and the only group 3 are Laibon. So 3/5s of the 3-4 !Salubri. What I'm most curious about is how well people rate Shadow Of Taint. Do you expect a lot of methuselahs will be playing cards on your ready vampires, and that there will be younger targets available? -Mercuriel

Well we have Del Eden if you need more AUS. Thats +1 !Salubri with AUS for all decks. I figure a VAL FOR vamp will just freak drive and try it again :) -Mercuriel

Jeroen Rombouts wrote: > What does even a VAL FOR vamp do against S:CE? Superior Blissful Agony?

Well, no, that's not true. A child inherits the Sect trait of his creator, so I you make a Brother in Arms with a Laibon !Salubri, he's Laibon as well.

I think it is a problem as well, but not because S:CE (in a wall deck, you've already acomplished what you wanted, block his action, and we have Bissfull Agony as well). It's a problem because I can think of a powerful deck with just AUS/VAL, but I can´t make it, because they lack AUS :-(

I find it unlikely that it would be automatically Sabbat, since all the other "Create-a-vampire" cards make vampires of the siring vampire's sect. Even if this is just an assumption not based on any rules text, then again, the card is clearly missing something, and the rules just say that "Each vampire's sect is given in its card text, and that may override the default sect of that vampire's clan...". Though it hints to such that clans have default sects, it also says that a vampire's sect is given in its card text, and it doesn't actually say that certain clans are always of certain sect, unless told otherwise in certain vampire's card text. For my part, until errated, most likely the way all other "siring" cards have been, I'm going to assume that Brothers in Arms are always of the siring vampire's sect. Anyway, I plan to make a Brother in Arms Horde Bleed, perhaps 6 to 10 vampires, Brass Knucles, Burning Tough, no rush cards. Needs many cards and much testing, it's a bit tricy since you need a weapon in order to use sword of the Righteous, but we'll see...

"Emmit Svenson" <emmits...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht news:1133904773....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > > Jeroen Rombouts wrote: >> What does even a VAL FOR vamp do against S:CE? > > Superior Blissful Agony? > That only works when you're blocking (since they have to play S/CE first). I was thinking more in terms of a rush deck.

[ quoted text not captured ] Not by the current rules of V:tES. Unless card text overrides it, a vampire is the default sect of its clan.

[ quoted text not captured ] Not unless explicit card text says so. If unspecified (as in Brother in Arms), the vampire takes the default sect. -- That is my story, be it bitter or be it sweet. Keep a little and let a little come back to me. LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply) http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"MathiasTCK" <Mathias...@gmail.com> schreef in bericht news:1133903793.2...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > Well we have Del Eden if you need more AUS. Thats +1 !Salubri with > AUS for all decks. > > I figure a VAL FOR vamp will just freak drive and try it again :) > true, but how many times are you going to pull this off? And How much cards (and possibly blood) have you wasted just to torporise 1 minion?

<hch...@kolumbus.fi> schreef in bericht news:1133905869....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >I find it unlikely that it would be automatically Sabbat, since all the > other "Create-a-vampire" cards make vampires of the siring vampire's > sect. Even if this is just an assumption not based on any rules text, > then again, the card is clearly missing something, and the rules just > say that "Each vampire's sect is given in its card text, and that may > override the default sect of that vampire's clan...". Though it hints > to such that clans have default sects, it also says that a vampire's > sect is given in its card text, and it doesn't actually say that > certain clans are always of certain sect, unless told otherwise in > certain vampire's card text. There's a table with Camarilla Clans, Independent clans, Sabbat Clans and Laibon Clans right in the middle of the LoB rulebook. So there exists a default sect for each clan. > > For my part, until errated, most likely the way all other "siring" > cards have been, I'm going to assume that Brothers in Arms are always > of the siring vampire's sect. they've never been like that. Lucita's Embraces are sabbat, fr.ex.

hch...@kolumbus.fi wrote: > I find it unlikely that it would be automatically Sabbat, since all the > other "Create-a-vampire" cards make vampires of the siring vampire's > sect. Not true. The Embrace, for example, does not. > Even if this is just an assumption not based on any rules text, > then again, the card is clearly missing something, and the rules just > say that "Each vampire's sect is given in its card text, and that may > override the default sect of that vampire's clan...". Though it hints > to such that clans have default sects, it also says that a vampire's > sect is given in its card text, and it doesn't actually say that > certain clans are always of certain sect, unless told otherwise in > certain vampire's card text. It is an action card, so doesn't have a sect in card text. When it becomes a vampire (when it is put into play, that is), it gets the sect assigned to it. In the absence of overriding card text, that assignment is the default sect of its clan. > For my part, until errated, most likely the way all other "siring" > cards have been, I'm going to assume that Brothers in Arms are always > of the siring vampire's sect. No errata needed -- card text is purposefully silent (as in Embrace) because no card text is needed to effect the default, card text is needed only when the default is to be overridden. [ quoted text not captured ]

If you really want to make a AUS VAL rush deck you basically have 2 vampires to do the rushing, Adonai and Dela Eden. Adonai has built in rush versus camarilla, Del Has +1 str and superior Fortitude. I would try to accomplish it by using a variety of different rush action cards, freak drive, perhaps Taste of Vitae to retain blood, and your Telepathic Traffic to counter each use of S:CE. -Mercuriel

MathiasTCK wrote: > Armor of Caine's Fury C > Combat > 1 blood > [pre] Prevent 1 damage > [val] Only usable before range is determined. This vampire may prevent > 1 damage from the opposing minion's strikes each round. Frenzy cards > cannot be played on this vampire; cancel the effects of any Frenzy > cards that already have been played on this vampire this combat. > [VAL] As [val] above, but this vampire may prevent 2 damage from the > opposing minion's strikes each round. > - > !Salubri often depend on their weapons. Most of the commonly seen > cards that prevent us from using our weapons are frenzies. So here we > have a perfect defense against an unwanted drawing out the beast. > > The damage prevention is wonderful for any val weenies (read Brothers > in Arms) that don't have access to fortitude. Damage prevention you > have to use before range will often be wasted, but that beats a wasted > weenie. Something apparently overlooked: this card is murderously good in combination with Trap and Sword of the Righteous. Note that both levels allow you to prevent EACH ROUND, not only in the first round -- the kind of effect any Trap deck typically spooges in its shorts over. The classic Ravnos Trapparition/Crows deck shows a good example of this (although the Crows are environmental damage, which is a bit nicer.) A deck playing Trap/Sword/Armor suddenly doesn't have to worry about dodges, maneuvers, casual prevention, or incidental Sniper Rifles on AUS weenies; the only escape is press-to-end or hit harder, and a small splash of backup Skin of Steel should handle the occasional "One Big Smash" deck. Yep, it's another pre-range, but worried about S:CE? Play Aura Reading before you lay down too many of these. Superior Mettle could be annoying but you'll burn 4 blood off the guy. -- Derek insert clever quotation here

Jeroen Rombouts wrote: >I was thinking more in terms of a rush deck. I fear you may be right that a VAL FOR rush deck won't work very well against S:CE. If you happen to know someone on the table who both wants to and can rip through a S:CE vamp then Blisful agony can be used to send the vamp there. I think !Salubri will fair better as combat decks not as focused on rush. Wall and Bloat, weenie bleed. -Mercuriel

[ quoted text not captured ] But here is where Nkechi's Special kicks in. Play Haven Uncovered to vampire you want to nail, rush w/Nkechi and see how many S:CE there is. If none, play your royal flush and wate the bugger, if there is multiple S:CE, just send all of your guys there to hit the bugger w/WWS/Kerrie until he's ready for el scorchio. Of course Dela Eden and some TT's help too. As a side note, there are 3 Laibon !Salubri, Dela, our best new pal Langa, and Nkechi, to whom I have took a great liking because of her special. One can do a viable mono Laibon crypt using the following vampires (I've done it and it works well): 2 Dela Eden AUS FOR VAL +1 str 1 Mina Grotius cel FOR (NEC) and 2 _very_ nice specials. 3 Langa for VAL rush 2 Solomon Batanea (nec) AUS FOR and useful, if not uber cool special 2 Nkechi 1 Kamaria (Osebo 3, aus pot) 1 Misrak (Osebo 2 pot) Now what does the laibonness give in return of losing Aredhel and Rashiel (Aredhel playing Mozambique Allure is likely to be blocked): All vampires can conceal out a Kerrie, All uncontrolled vampires are viable for Mabare Market (which is very good) and The have access to Terra Incognita. Coupled with Aversions and Telepathic Misdirections, the deck can become a nightmare to bleed+bounce predator. As I had Hargringers in my deck, I also used Maabara for card cycling, and Lazarene Inquisitor to drain vampires out of blood in order to make them burn easier. Good to have a !Salburi newletter, as an opening of fruitive (hmm, sounds strange, I wonder if it is the right word) discussion.

Crap! How many typos I can squeeze in few sentences :(

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, hch...@kolumbus.fi wrote: > I find it unlikely that it would be automatically Sabbat, since all the > other "Create-a-vampire" cards make vampires of the siring vampire's > sect. Creation Rites creates a vampire of default sect. Dual Form creates a vampire of default sect. The Embrace creates a vampire of default sect. Legion creates a vampire of default sect. Nossferatu Bestial creates a vampire of default sect. Third Tradition: Progeny creates a vampire of default sect. Web of Knives Recruit creates a vampire of default sect. Abomination creates an Independent Vampire (Default sect for Abominations). Call the Great Beast creates an Independent Vampire (Default sect for Baali, not that the Great Beast is a Baali). Create Gargoyle creates a vampire of the same sect. Note it has text specifying so. Hatchling creates a vampire of the same sect. Note it has text specifying so. Thin-Blooded Seer creates a vampire of the same sect. Note it has text specifying so. Tumninos creates a vampire of the same sect. Note it has text specifying so. Waters of Duat creates a vampire of the same sect. Note it has text specifying so. -- - Gregory Stuart Pettigrew

Derek Ray wrote: > MathiasTCK wrote: > > Armor of Caine's Fury C > > Combat > > 1 blood > > [pre] Prevent 1 damage > > [val] Only usable before range is determined. This vampire may prevent > > 1 damage from the opposing minion's strikes each round. Frenzy cards > > cannot be played on this vampire; cancel the effects of any Frenzy > > cards that already have been played on this vampire this combat. > > [VAL] As [val] above, but this vampire may prevent 2 damage from the > > opposing minion's strikes each round. > > Something apparently overlooked: this card is murderously good in > combination with Trap and Sword of the Righteous. Note that both levels > allow you to prevent EACH ROUND, not only in the first round -- the kind > of effect any Trap deck typically spooges in its shorts over. The > classic Ravnos Trapparition/Crows deck shows a good example of this > (although the Crows are environmental damage, which is a bit nicer.) It is a good combination, but notice that unlike Apparition, AoCF only prevents damage from strikes. Also, Apparition can be played after strike resolution, after your opponent has the chance to play S:CE and when you know how much damage you'll have to prevent. Even though you can replace AoCF right away and you get the frenzy protection, Apparition sounds like better defense.

On the other hand, both stack, so if you want to cycle your combat hand in hope of getting a TT, VoS, Pulled Fangs or, like, Concealed Kerrie, AoCF is better.

"Derek Ray" <lor...@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht news:woednSN31ZfXvgve...@giganews.com... [ quoted text not captured ] the funny thing about sword of the righteous in this combo is that you don't have to use the melee weapon. Only for the last blow.

MathiasTCK wrote: > What I'm most curious about is how well people rate Shadow Of Taint. > Do you expect a lot of methuselahs will be playing cards on your ready > vampires, and that there will be younger targets available? I think it's really nice card, atleast when you combine it with brother in arms. If you have two !salubri in play and two brothers in play, those nasty setites plays temptation on your near empty key vampire. Just play shadow of taint to move that temptation to one of your brothers and play third brother. In your next untap, burn one of your brothers (one with temptation) to fulfill cardtext in bia. No more temptation on any of your vamps. Same way you can get rid of sensory deprivation and all other nastiness...

Have I mentioned that I LOVE LoB? By the Way, very nice work, read with all my three eyes :) Have Fun Fabio Ciccone http://storylinesp.vai.la

Emmit Svenson wrote: > Derek Ray wrote: >> Something apparently overlooked: this card is murderously good in >> combination with Trap and Sword of the Righteous. Note that both levels >> allow you to prevent EACH ROUND, not only in the first round -- the kind >> of effect any Trap deck typically spooges in its shorts over. The >> classic Ravnos Trapparition/Crows deck shows a good example of this >> (although the Crows are environmental damage, which is a bit nicer.) > > It is a good combination, but notice that unlike Apparition, AoCF only > prevents damage from strikes. Also, Apparition can be played after > strike resolution, after your opponent has the chance to play S:CE and > when you know how much damage you'll have to prevent. Even though you > can replace AoCF right away and you get the frenzy protection, > Apparition sounds like better defense. The replace clause can be fairly significant. As pure defense, Apparition is better; as a mixed offensive/defensive supplement, AoCF is fine where it is, I think. It's hard to directly compare the two cards except from the common usage with Trap, of course, because of the anti-Frenzy ("Thanks, my weapons are good") bonus given to a clan that gets a number of direct weapon-related bonuses anyway. [ quoted text not captured ]

With group 2/3 we have Adonai and Dela Eden, both with AUS/VAL. That sounds like the start of a viable AUS/VAL rush deck. Has anyone tried it? With group 3/4 you have Langa for built in rush, and you could try to include Saulot. -Mercuriel

Fizeront wrote: >It's a problem because I can think of a > powerful deck with just AUS/VAL, but I can´t make it, because they > lack AUS :-( With group 2/3 we have Adonai and Dela Eden, both with AUS/VAL. That [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] It wouldn't hurt to carry a few Auspex masters for Nkechi or Thomas Steed, the Angry. I'm sure their specials will come in very handy for whatever deck you have in mind. -- Dorrinal Blackmantle Chronicler of Clan Tremere Salubri antitribu hate Tremere.

"MathiasTCK" <Mathias...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1133894043....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > SALUBRI ANTITRIBU NEWSLETTER > > Volume 2, Issue 1 > December 2005 > Author: Mercuriel > Shadow Of Taint R > Action > [dom] (D) Move a card played by another Methuselah on an ally in your > ready region to another ally > [val] as [dom] above, or move a card played by another Methuselah on a > vampire in your ready region to another minion on whom the card could > be played. That minion cannot be a vampire older than the vampire with > the card. > [VAL] As [val] above, and this action is at +1 stealth. > - > I'm sure this card is very useful. I'm don't know what card's will > most > be bothering your minions, but I'm sure someone will be able to tell > me why this card is a saving grace. This is a very useful card when you want to remove a Fame from your vampire. Or take a second action to move Society of Leopold, ect. Raille

[ quoted text not captured ] Or Derange, The Haunting, Sensory Deprivation, Seeds of Corruption, a Haven Uncovered on an empty minion who survived somehow, Pentex Subversion, Mercy for Seth, Withering, Swarm, Charnas the Imp, etc. etc. etc.... At least half of these I see regularly in our playgroup, so for me it's very worth it to include 1-2 Shadow of Taint in any !Salubri deck (or in a Saulot deck, for that matter; he can also use Cleansing Ritual to ensure the well-being of your minions' souls :-) That said, the question is not *what card*, but *what minion* - since you can't move the card to an older vampire. Some cards will be played on your weenies when there's no single vampire of equal or lower capacity around. Now *that's* why this card is a Rare and you don't need more than 1 or 2 in any single deck, unless you have some tricks on your sleeve (like playing any strange/annoying and otherwise unmovable card on your own minion and then transferring it to your prey's best minion? Can't think of anything right now.) best, Fabio "Sooner" Macedo

Dorrinal Blackmantle wrote: > It wouldn't hurt to carry a few Auspex masters for Nkechi or Thomas > Steed, the Angry. I'm sure their specials will come in very handy for > whatever deck you have in mind. I'm completely split about whether I prefer playing the !Salubri as, group 1&2 + for weenies, 2&3 all !Salubri, 3&4 lots of options, or even perhaps 4/5 (Salout+Nergal with help) . Group 2&3 multirush telepathic tracking still sounds good, I just don't have enough Telepathic Trackings to try it. I'm just utterly split on what discipline to focus on after Valeren. Group 4 all have fortitude, group 2 favors Auspex more. I've taken the deck I'm constructing apart and put it back together several times, trying to decide :) Path of Retribution and Armor of Caine's Fury do make it possible to ignore Fortitude. In theory Aversion, and good forward momentum, will likewise let me ignore Auspex. I finally have my hands on cards so I should be able to put theory into practice tomorrow. -Mercuriel