Banishment + merging

I have Marcus Vitel in play, and Marcus Vitel ADV in my uncontrolled region. Marcus Vitel has a .44 Magnum. But, oops!, he gets banished. For reasons of my own, I influence out Marcus Vitel ADV, leaving Marcus Vitel (and the .44 Magnum) in my uncontrolled region. Next turn, I want to merge Marcus. Now, going from this LSJ post: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3EA52E05.3030202%40white-wolf.com Any blood that Marcus Vitel may have had on him in the uncontrolled region just goes away. But what about the .44 Magnum? Or, eg, Fame? Discipline masters? Do they go away, or do they move onto the merged vampire? Relevant rulebook text: "The advancement card is a vampire card in all respects, so it can be influenced in the normal manner. In addition, if you already control the advancement or the associated regular "base" vampire and the other version of the vampire is in your uncontrolled region, then you can spend 4 transfers and 1 pool to move the vampire card from your uncontrolled region to the controlled vampire card (place the advancement card on top of the base card). The two cards effectively merge to form a single vampire. The particulars of this merge are as follows. The counters and cards on the vampire remain. The advancement and the base card are treated as a single vampire card, even if sent to the uncontrolled region somehow, until the vampire is burned. Any effects in play that targeted the vampire now target the merged version." The first paragraph states "the vampire card", which would seem to indicate that nothing else moves with it. But the second paragraph states "The counters and cards on the vampire remain". It's pretty obvious that the second paragraph refers to the already in play version, but...eh. Mmm. Also, to piggyback, there were LSJ posts a little over a year ago about putting the Revocation of Tyre effect up for RT review. Did anything happen from that, or is it still in process? --Colin McGuigan

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 21:45:39 -0500, Colin McGuigan <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote: >I have Marcus Vitel in play, and Marcus Vitel ADV in my uncontrolled region. >Marcus Vitel has a .44 Magnum. But, oops!, he gets banished. >For reasons of my own, I influence out Marcus Vitel ADV, leaving Marcus >Vitel (and the .44 Magnum) in my uncontrolled region. >Next turn, I want to merge Marcus. >Now, going from this LSJ post: >http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3EA52E05.3030202%40white-wolf.com >Any blood that Marcus Vitel may have had on him in the uncontrolled >region just goes away. This does not follow at all. LSJ only responded to the 'can you merge if Brainwashed' question, and the answer was yes. None of the rest of that paragraph is addressed in his reply. Pertinent rules quote: "counters and cards on the vampire remain." http://www.white-wolf.com/VTES/rulebook/ Section 1.5.6. >But what about the .44 Magnum? Or, eg, Fame? >Discipline masters? Do they go away, or do they move onto the merged >vampire? They all remain on the vampire. >Mmm. Also, to piggyback, there were LSJ posts a little over a year ago >about putting the Revocation of Tyre effect up for RT review. Did >anything happen from that, or is it still in process? As of August 12, 2004 the card's effects remained unchanged. http://www.white-wolf.com/VTES/errata.html Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com

[ quoted text not captured ] Correct. Only the card moves. Anything else on that card is lost (burned). The cards, counters, etc. on the in-play vampire remain, of course. > Mmm. Also, to piggyback, there were LSJ posts a little over a year ago > about putting the Revocation of Tyre effect up for RT review. Did > anything happen from that, or is it still in process? Still in progress. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<o92gj09pajslqsqod...@4ax.com>... > Pertinent rules quote: > "counters and cards on the vampire remain." > > http://www.white-wolf.com/VTES/rulebook/ > > Section 1.5.6. > > >But what about the .44 Magnum? Or, eg, Fame? > >Discipline masters? Do they go away, or do they move onto the merged > >vampire? > > They all remain on the vampire. So, to expound on Colin's example: Marcus Vitel (basic) in play with 5 blood and a .44 Magnum, gets Banished. Marcus Vitel (adv) gets transferred out with his full blood. Next turn, I Minion Tap Marcus down to 1 blood, then declare a merge with the previously Banished base version. So the newly-merged Marcus would have a .44 and six blood counters on him? -John Flournoy

The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<o92gj09pajslqsqod...@4ax.com>... > Pertinent rules quote: > "counters and cards on the vampire remain." > > http://www.white-wolf.com/VTES/rulebook/ > > Section 1.5.6. > > >But what about the .44 Magnum? Or, eg, Fame? > >Discipline masters? Do they go away, or do they move onto the merged > >vampire? > > They all remain on the vampire. So, to expound on Colin's example: [ quoted text not captured ]

> So, to expound on Colin's example: > > Marcus Vitel (basic) in play with 5 blood and a .44 Magnum, gets > Banished. > Marcus Vitel (adv) gets transferred out with his full blood. > Next turn, I Minion Tap Marcus down to 1 blood, then declare a merge > with the previously Banished base version. > > So the newly-merged Marcus would have a .44 and six blood counters on > him? > There is a confusion here. Everything on the *in-play* vampire remains. Everything on the *uncontrolled* vampire *card* is burned. The newly-merged Marcus in this example would have 1 blood and no equipment. [1.5.6] Advancement: An advancement card is a type of vampire card for your crypt. An advancement card looks just like a regular crypt card except that it has an Advancement icon under the clan icon. The advancement card is a vampire card in all respects, so it can be influenced in the normal manner. In addition, if you already control the advancement or the associated regular "base" vampire and the other version of the vampire is in your uncontrolled region, then you can spend 4 transfers and 1 pool to move the vampire card from your uncontrolled region to the controlled vampire card (place the advancement card on top of the base card). The two cards effectively merge to form a single vampire. The particulars of this merge are as follows. The counters and cards on the vampire remain. The advancement and the base card are treated as a single vampire card, even if sent to the uncontrolled region somehow, until the vampire is burned. Any effects in play that targeted the vampire now target the merged version. When merged, the text on the base card still applies, but the rest of the card is ignored (capacity, Disciplines, etc.). The advancement card applies in full. If the advancement card conflicts with the base card (a different sect, for example), the advancement card has precedence. Some merged cards have an additional effect that only applies if the card is merged with its base card. Such an effect is identified in the card text by a "merged" icon. The advanced vampire (merged or not) will contest other copies of the same vampire (advanced or not) in play, as usual.

> > Correct. Only the card moves. Anything else on that card is lost (burned). > The cards, counters, etc. on the in-play vampire remain, of course. > I don't know if it makes a difference somewhere, but are these cards burned from the controlled region or from somewhere else? (i know there are cards that require things to have been burned from the controlled region, i haven't checked yet if they could be on banished vamps) W

[ quoted text not captured ] I'm pretty sure the burned counters and cards are burned from the source (uncontrolled region). If Memory's Fading Glimpse moves a vampire to the bottom of the crypt, the cards and counters are burned from the uncontrolled region, not the crypt. Bye, Daneel

"Daneel" <dan...@eposta.hu> wrote in message news:opsdyczt...@news.chello.hu... [ quoted text not captured ] Correct. Since they aren't in the controlled region, they cannot be burned from the controlled region. They're in the uncontrolled region, and burn when the card they are on is removed (to go be merged with its counterpart in the controlled region). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu